Arminians, why are you Arminian?

[PrettyboyAndy]

Correct. It allows us who could not otherwise choose Salvation to do so.

Very interesting

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

In Noah's day, there were reasons why all the world perished except Noah and his family:

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

9 This is the account of Noah and his family.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.​

The reasons for destruction of everyone but 8 people were:

• how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth'
• every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time;
• The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled;
• the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures ;
• God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.

God saved Noah and family because of the corruption of the rest of the world. For God to choose 8 for salvation and the rest of humanity for damnation, sounds like God is demonstrating favouritism big time.

Is this verse not in your Bible? 'But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord' (Josh 24:15 NIV).

Or does choose not mean choice?

Oz

I don't see Joshua 24:15 as a verse on salvation.

I suggest it could be able putting the Lord your God first in your life?

For example, If I don't take care of myself, diet and watch what I eat, I will gain weight and become unhealthy.

Likewise, if someone doesn't obey the Lord, pray, and read the word, he will become distant from the Lord.

I sometimes need to make a choice, and read a devotional in the morning, rather then going on my phone and checking my e-mails and bank accounts etc.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Andy,

That's not what Acts 16:30-31 (NIV) states:

30 He [Philippian jailer] then brought them [Paul & Silas] out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”​

Oz

Of course, but God gives faith and repentance

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I am not trying to debate , or break rules so I will carefully try to respond.

What you stated is not what Ephesians tells us.

Ephesians 2: 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Truly this is the mercy of God , who would not have any perish.

John 3: 14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

God is no respector of persons.

Would God not have offered salvation to these people Paul is teaching about?

Romans 1: 19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I suppose it comes down to this age old debate:

Is God's grace impossible to resist?
If it is impossible to resist , and still people walk away and suffer Hell, then why is it offered to all mankind?

Christ in his abounding love , Preached to the lost all the way back to the days of Noah !
He descended then raised in victory over death Hell, and the grave.

Ephesians 4: 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Our difference is so simple yet , we are miles apart on one thing.
Irresistible Grace ,and Predestination.

Under the new Covenant we have God providing a way for all mankind to be joined in the Body of Christ.

It is displeasure to God when people walk away, then He turns away from them forever.

But I do not believe there can be goodness in God's eyes for those lost in sin, but I do believe His love provides a way of adoption in Christ.

John 5: 20. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23. That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

He that believth on Him that sent me, clearly shows us free will.

I could provide many Scriptures that have a cause and effect meaning, but we agree to disagree and in the end it will not matter.

This is a nice post, I will post a reply from Got Questions,

No one can repent and come to God unless God pulls that person to Himself (John 6:44). Acts 5:31 and 11:18 indicate that repentance is something God gives — it is only possible because of His grace. No one can repent unless God grants repentance.

All of salvation, including repentance and faith, is a result of God drawing us, opening our eyes, and changing our hearts. God's longsuffering leads us to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), as does His kindness (Romans 2:4).


Ephesians 4:7 is interesting, I will look into this some more

 

[JM]

Can you explain this a little more to me JM

It's the Arminian idea that God is desperately trying to save everyone on the planet and gives them all the opportunity to believe. It's kinda like God owes everyone the chance to believe, problem is, the means by which people come to faith is the Gospel. Not everyone gets a chance to hear the Gospel. So the Arminian (see also the Catechism of the Catholic Church) comes up with ideas about salvation apart from the preaching of the word.

I've learned these kinds of discussions are really fruitless because it really comes down to presuppositions, the lens by which we read scripture and interpret it. For more info see A Defense of Reformed (biblical) Presuppositional Apologetics by Cornelius VanTil

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve Jehovah, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah." Josh 24.15

Choose! ​

Two choices are mentioned and both are false. Choose "the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River," referring to the false gods of Egypt (see v.14) or "the gods of the Amorites" it doesn't matter.

It's like saying, choose Buddha or Krishna or whoever, neither one will save you from your sin, so the choice is not salvific.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[OzSpen]

I don't see Joshua 24:15 as a verse on salvation.

I suggest it could be able putting the Lord your God first in your life?

For example, If I don't take care of myself, diet and watch what I eat, I will gain weight and become unhealthy.

Likewise, if someone doesn't obey the Lord, pray, and read the word, he will become distant from the Lord.

I sometimes need to make a choice, and read a devotional in the morning, rather then going on my phone and checking my e-mails and bank accounts etc.

Andy,

You have added quite a bit here that may be in your thoughts about application of this verse - Josh 24:15 (NIV) - but they don't relate to the exegesis of the verse.

The verse demonstrates that we can choose which God/gods we will serve. God had not taken the attribute of choice away from people.

It states that there is choice in serving God or the other gods of the Amorites or gods beyond the Euphrates. Joshua and his household chose to 'serve the Lord'.

Does choose mean choice or not?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Of course, but God gives faith and repentance

Where does the text state that? It is a command in the Greek, '[you] believe'.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Andy,

You have added quite a bit here that may be in your thoughts about application of this verse - Josh 24:15 (NIV) - but they don't relate to the exegesis of the verse.

The verse demonstrates that we can choose which God/gods we will serve. God had not taken the attribute of choice away from people.

It states that there is choice in serving God or the other gods of the Amorites or gods beyond the Euphrates. Joshua and his household chose to 'serve the Lord'.

Does choose mean choice or not?

Oz

I'm going to need some help from my fellow brothers in the Calvinist Corner - Not side stepping this issue, but will need some reinforcements on this one.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Where does the text state that? It is a command in the Greek, '[you] believe'.

Also need reinforcements from the Calvinist Knights on this one too.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm going to need some help from my fellow brothers in the Calvinist Corner - Not side stepping this issue, but will need some reinforcements on this one.

Why can't you consider the non-Calvinistic challenges to the Calvinist interpretation I encountered, that led to my writing this article? Choose does not mean choice! Joshua 24:15

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Also need reinforcements from the Calvinist Knights on this one too.

Isn't this passing the buck?

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Why can't you consider the non-Calvinistic challenges to the Calvinist interpretation I encountered, that led to my writing this article? Choose does not mean choice! Joshua 24:15

Oz

I would need some time to look into this matter, and also review your article , but you have a good point on that particular verse.

 

[mnorian]

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