Arminianism is inconsistent

[ClothedInGrace]

One more thing Some people remind me of Raptors, ever see Jurassic Park, they kept hitting the fence looking for any weak areas so they could break through. Wonder what made me think of that lol night now.

Hey, I have no problem with you seeing me as a raptor (not saying you do, but why else would you share that with me). I'm testing your theology to see if holds up. If you have any weak areas then you should know about them, don't you think?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

I have no idea where you are coming from, Bluelion. The Bible depicts a continual struggle between God and creation. Many things do not go the way God wanted them, as per Gen. 6:6. In his sermon on Jeremiah 6:10, Calvin stated, "Our Lord did everything possible to correct his people, as a father would his child. Seeing that he could not succeed in converting men to righteousness, he laments, saying,'Alas, am I not unhappy? For I have done everything possible to make men righteous, yet I have not succeeded.'"

Are you talking to me, Hoghead1? Bluelion is Arminian as far as I know. If you were addressing me then I've already told you I could care less what Calvin thinks.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Signing out.

 

[Bluelion]

Hey, I have no problem with you seeing me as a raptor (not saying you do, but why else would you share that with me). I'm testing your theology to see if holds up. If you have any weak areas then you should know about them, don't you think?

I think this forum is a lot like Jurassic Park lol. That is what I am saying.

 

[Bluelion]

Are you talking to me, Hoghead1? Bluelion is Arminian as far as I know. If you were addressing me then I've already told you I could care less what Calvin thinks.

Actually I am not Arm I am a child of God, funny another site I was on accused me of being a Calvinist, label it and stick it in a pin lol.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have no idea where you are coming from, Bluelion. The Bible depicts a continual struggle between God and creation. Many things do not go the way God wanted them, as per Gen. 6:6. In his sermon on Jeremiah 6:10, Calvin stated, "Our Lord did everything possible to correct his people, as a father would his child. Seeing that he could not succeed in converting men to righteousness, he laments, saying,'Alas, am I not unhappy? For I have done everything possible to make men righteous, yet I have not succeeded.'"

I really need to read some of Calvin's books.

How arrogant to talk for God and say what God is thinking. This guy think A LOT OF HIMSELF.

Calvin stated, "Our Lord did everything possible to correct his people, as a father would his child. Seeing that he could not succeed in converting men to righteousness, he laments, saying,'Alas, am I not unhappy? For I have done everything possible to make men righteous, yet I have not succeeded.'"

This guy is questioning the perfection of God saying "yet I have not succeded".

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think this forum is a lot like Jurassic Park lol. That is what I am saying.

I get one of the jeep's with the hardtop

 

[Bluelion]

I get one of the jeep's with the hardtop

Lol, I don't think the jeeps run on tracks any more. This is wild country lol.

You said in another post you should read some of John Calvin, if you do you will find Calvinist today do not look anything like what he taught. For one you have to agree on all five points to be Calvinist, but those on the site say no you don't. That is not what John taught.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Actually I am not Arm I am a child of God, funny another site I was on accused me of being a Calvinist, label it and stick it in a pin lol.

You can be a child of God and an Arminian, just as I am a child of God and a Calvinist. They are only theological frameworks.

 

[Bluelion]

You can be a child of God and an Arminian, just as I am a child of God and a Calvinist. They are only theological frameworks.

Sorry but God never said you shall be arminian or calvinist, He calls me His son. The rest is just dividing the church. I am not into that. Labels i like are brother sister mother, you can keep the rest.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Sorry but God never said you shall be arminian or calvinist, He calls me His son. The rest is just dividing the church. I am not into that. Labels i like are brother sister mother, you can keep the rest.

If that is how you feel then suite yourself, just don't be offended if you teach Arminian doctrine and get labeled an Arminian. It doesn't mean you aren't a Christian, it is just a narrower category of Christian belief. Don't you feel it is necessary to note the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism? It is the same when speaking about the doctrines these systems address. Your beliefs fall into a category whether you like it not.

 

[Bluelion]

If that is how you feel then suite yourself, just don't be offended if you teach Arminian doctrine and get labeled an Arminian. It doesn't mean you aren't a Christian, it is just a narrower category of Christian belief. Don't you feel it is necessary to note the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism? It is the same when speaking about the doctrines these systems address. Your beliefs fall into a category whether you like it not.

I believe as God said be of one mind. Personally I think we should all sit down and hash it out once for all with fasting and prayer they way they did when the church first started.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Sorry but God never said you shall be arminian or calvinist, He calls me His son. The rest is just dividing the church. I am not into that. Labels i like are brother sister mother, you can keep the rest.

I think he must have some kind of free-will to choose to be a Calvinist? No?

 

[Patmos]

Right, because the truth should be in motion, always changing with the tides of human desire. Abandoning scripture is not smart, friend.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

No one is arguing against this.

If you throw out the words that God has spoken to us then by what authority do you say what you do?

No one is throwing anything out.

Jesus taught only what He heard from the father, and likewise we Christians should only believe what has been given to us in the God-breathed scriptures.

If you abandon the scriptures then there is really no reason to debate, because you believe whatever the world tells you.

No one is abandoning Scripture either.

Hoghead1 wrote ".....So I might yank the Bible out of someone's hands and say tell me what you see."

ClothedInGrace, may I suggest you are taken this in isolation and too literally. The Bible talk about being led by the spirit, which various groups take to mean a whole raft of different things.

We all agree they God breathed the scriptures but different factions interpret them differently. E.g. You believe in double predestination and Supralapsarian (You yourself said), fine, this is NOT the majority Calvinist view though, which proves my point - look through several threads if you doubt me. Or read Calvin - whether factual or not, there is a lot of Reformed literature thats states Calvin do NOT hold to Limited atonement. Other Reformed literature states the opposite.

( Health warning - Yes, non Calvinists, Arminians, Orthodox etc etc also hold to conflicting views.)

 

[twin1954]

You are wise Bluelion.

Do you notice though, mostly Calvinist start these threads? I think they like to talk about how elect they are. Warm & fuzzies and pats on the back.

Actually it is the other way around. If you go back and look at the history of the threads you will see that mostly Calvinists are attacked and then defend themselves.

 

[Patmos]

I really need to read some of Calvin's books.

If you get through Calvin's Institutes, well done.
The Canon's of the Synod of Dort, available free on the internet would IMO be a good place to start.

I recommend "God's Strategy in Human History" by Roger T Forster and V Paul Martin. ISBN 0-946616-55-8.

The authors are not Calvinist but the Forward is written by F F Bruce who starts with this:
"It is a sign of grace on the part of the authors of this book that they should invite an impenitent Augustinian and Calvinist to write a forward for it. There are several reasons for my speedy acceptance of the invition but one that outweighs all others,...."

 

[Patmos]

Skala,

Here you go again with your generalisations for both Arminians and Calvinists. It proves nothing when you make these kinds of statements:

1. 'Arminianism is inconsistent. It flip-flops it's position on certain things at a moment's notice'. You gave not one example. Zero! We have no specifics to discuss.

2. 'Calvinism on the other hand has no inconsistency'. Again, you provide no specific Calvinist's theology that we can debate.

Your generalisations are coming out of your pro-Calvinist and anti-Arminian mind. It is impossible to discuss these two theological positions with you when you create these kinds of straw men. They may or may not be correct.

At least have the temerity to give an example of a theologian who teaches such so that we have some specifics to debate.

You use a question begging fallacy. When you start with Arminianism is wrong and Calvinism is correct, it's only natural you'll conclude that Arminianism is wrong and Calvinism is right. But it's a logical fallacy you use.

Until you come forth with some specifics to discuss, you are wasting your time denigrating Arminians and elevating Calvinists.

Oz

OZ elucidates who is attacking and denigrating whom.

 

[twin1954]

OZ elucidates who is attacking and denigrating whom.

Oz acts as though there is only the teachings of Jacob Arminius and John Calvin. That is tunnel vision to say the least. There are many things in which I strongly disagree with John Calvin. My whole theology is, as understood in the light given me by the Spirit, Scriptural.

I use the logical conclusions that are the result of free will views to show how free will is actually a works salvation. No one has yet to refute those conclusions so they can only deny them as being actual conclusions. I am not on the attack but simply showing the truth.

BTW I am not a Reformed Baptist either. I, according to Scripture, disagree with the 1689 London Baptist confession as well. My theology doesn't come from a man but from years of prayerful study of the Scriptures and theology. I do not claim to speak for Calvinists but only myself. That is why I rarely use links or refer to anyone other than myself and the Scriptures. My posts are my own thoughts not those of others.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Repetition is a powerful tool in the influencing of others. Communists knew that then. Calvinists know that now.

Repetitious exposure is one of the tools that Calvinists use very effectively to mould the thoughts of others./QUOTE]

Are you really likening Calvinists to Communists? Are you going to compare Arminians to Capitalists now? Give me a break.

 

[Bluelion]

I think he must have some kind of free-will to choose to be a Calvinist? No?

lol it would appear so another question they still sin so is it God making them sin or their free will?