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Armegeddon/Gog-Magog same event?

Armegeddon and Gog-magog same event?

  • I view them as the same event

  • I view them as different events

  • I am not sure

  • Does it really matter?


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LittleLambofJesus

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random person

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Battle of Armegeddon occurred in AD 70 and as far as Rev. 20:8 goes, there is appears to be some parallel between it and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

Check out this comparative study:
Rev. 20:8-9

and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-9

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

That there might come a future period where Satan begins to triumph over the church due to too much widespread apostacy. In other words, the church loses its power and effectualness, alas, Satan is unbound.

2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christian Zionism! I am lQQking at you and your ecstatic headline exegesis gleefully awaiting Damascus being turned into a heap of ruins (fulfilled already. Tiglath-Pileser III, 2 Kings 16:9; Amos 1:5; Isaiah 17:1), the valley of Jehoshaphet, and Christ setting foot upon the Mt. of Olives (Micah 1:3-4; Isaiah 40:4).
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

What are others views of the "armegeddon/gog-magog in Revelation.

I and some others are of the view they are 1 and the same event, since the Bible only mentiones 1 Great Day of the Lord God Almighty.

Battle of Armegeddon occurred in AD 70 and as far as Rev. 20:8 goes, there is appears to be some parallel between it and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12..........
Interesting. Thanks for both posting and voting.



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BABerean2

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Before you make up your mind about Gog/Magog and it's relation to Armageddon, read the article in the link at the bottom.

Sometimes we miss the truth because we have already made up our mind, without looking at all of the evidence.

This article was written by a premillennialist.

His analysis of the two events was excellent. He also reached a conclusion that most premillenialists would avoid.

Here is the link.

Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Yes. That is a great site I have been using for many yrs.

View Poll Results: Armegeddon and Gog-magog same event?

I view them as the same event
8 18.18%

I view them as different events
26 59.09%

I am not sure
6 13.64%

Does it really matter?
4 9.09%


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Daniel1136

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Ezekiel 38 gives the vision of the invasion of Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed for the nation ..... then the battle of Armageddon 1260 days [42 months] later

The Lord addresses Satan in the vision [Ezekiel 38:17]

An Satan is the one who gives Abbadon in the human little horn of Daniel's visions his power and authority [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

So Ezekiel 38; 39 does reveal the battle of Armageddon as does Revelation [14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21] the same

Satan will then be sent to the abyss where he cannot deceive the nations of the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth [Revelation 20:1-3]

Then after Satan will be released to cause another human rebellion against the Lord [Revelation 20:7-9]

And then Satan will be destroyed [Revelation 10]

Is the northern Muslim Caliph that you are now hearing about the same as the little horn of Daniel's visions? [7:7-25,8:9-25,11:36-45; 12:7] .... yes

When will all of this become reality? .... most likely soon, but no one knows the dating of his revealing .... these things are setting up, but the Lord has not revealed the dating of the beginning of His intervention to bring the tribulation of His hour [time] of His coming judgment in which the little horn will appear

Bryan Huie is exactly correct about the fact that Ezekiel's account is the battle of Armageddon [thanks for the article LittleLamb]

So the beginning of this event could start before this day is over .... watch the news if you are still on the earth

It will take the little horn the first 1260 days to conquer and confederate the Middle East and hold it .... he will have to fend of his opposition in the Middle East and from the far east and far north outside of the Middle East .... then he will attack Israel and rule for the next 1260 days [42 months]

Then the Lord come, rescue Israel, and will go forth and fight against his kingdom and destroy it at Armageddon

He will have already destroyed the western powers at the beginning of the tribulation [Revelation 8:6-12; 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

Then he will defeat the king of the south [Egypt] and add Egypt to his kingdom [Daniel 11:40; 42]

Who will be his opposition from the far east and far north?

The only opposition left will be from the orient and Russia

And he will go forth and sweep away multitudes in his anger

Then he will come to his ending in Israel .... the Lord will destroy him and his Muslim followers at Armageddon

And I will add this .... "dispensationalism" is a coined word used by the naysayers of the Lord's more sure word of prophecy, and future fulfillment

Be certain that you know this and actually what the term refers to .... their blanket application to discredit those who really know and understand Bible prophecy is a sham ... and the same also use the term "futurism" for the same purpose

..... do not be deceived by those who come with this ruse
 
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Codger

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As always you have to ask "What did this mean to the first century Christians?" So we are looking for a very simple meaning. From cover to cover the book of Revelation is loaded with symbols. Gog and Magog is just another one.

Both Daniel and Ezekiel prophesied the terrible days that were to come with the war between Antiochus and the Jews. This happened in the second century BC. Antiochus swarmed over Jerusalem, killing the Jews, plundering them and selling them into slavery. This precipitated the resistance called the Maccabees who defeated him after three years. He burned their holy books desecrated the temple and enacted a plan to Hellenized the Jews.

For the first time in history He tried to totally annihilate Judaism (Old Covenant) off of the face of the earth as well as the Jewish race also. So in Revelation John goes back once again to the Old Testament and brings back the term Gog and Magog. So this term is just a symbol for total inniahalation of the people of God and their covenant.

In Revelation John says that Satan will be bound for 1,000 years. This of course is a symbol for the unknown length of the Church age. Note that Satan was only bound in just one single aspect of his activity. He was bound in that he was not allowed to bring his wrath against the entire body of Christ all at one time. Revelation further states that just before Jesus returns he will be loosed or allowed to bring persecution to the world wide Church of God. God's enemies surround the camp of the Saints and they are consumed by the brightness of the Second Coming. Armageddon is not a literal battle on earth.

So what prophesy remains to be fulfilled in our time - just that - worldwide persecution of the Church. This is God's way of dividing the sheep from the goats just before he pulls the plug on humanity and time itself. You don't need to write 10,000 words to speculate some complicated interpretation to these passages.
 
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Daniel1136

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First of all Antiochus IV is not the subject of Daniel 11:36-45: 12:7

Daniel 11:21-35 is the exact career of Antiochus IV [any honest historian will verify this fact .... look it up on the Internet]

But his rule of Syria/Babylonia was not the time appointed recorded beginning in Daniel 11:36

There are significant differences between the actions two kings

Just one ..... Antiochus IV never conquered Egypt [the king of the south in Daniel 11:1--35]

The king of the north [the little horn of Daniel 7:25 8:9-25; 11:36-45] will conquer Egypt [Daniel 36:40; 42]

The prophets are always 100 % accurate

Neither did Antiochus Iv rule the Middle East with 10 other kings .... the little horn will

Even Revelation verifies [Revelation 13:1-4; 17:8-18]
 
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Daniel1136 said in post 86:

Is the northern Muslim Caliph that you are now hearing about the same as the little horn of Daniel's visions? [7:7-25,8:9-25,11:36-45; 12:7] .... yes

Actually, no. For note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, while the Antichrist will say that he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

-

The beast which comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in 2 religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the 2 horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he won't say that he is Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

Daniel1136 said in post 86:

So Ezekiel 38; 39 does reveal the battle of Armageddon as does Revelation [14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21] the same

Actually, Revelation 19:11-21 on the one hand, and Revelation 20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapters 38-39 on the other, are 2 different events, separated by over 1,000 years (Revelation 19:19 to 20:9). After the first event, Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3), while after the 2nd event, he will be cast into the lake of fire to suffer forever (Revelation 20:10).

Revelation 19:19-21 is the battle at Jesus' 2nd coming, which Zechariah 14:2-5 shows will occur at Jerusalem. After that battle will occur Jesus' physical reign on the earth (Zechariah 14:9-21) with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). It won't be until after the 1,000 years that the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-9, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Daniel1136 said in post 86:

So Ezekiel 38; 39 does reveal the battle of Armageddon as does Revelation [14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21] the same

Revelation 14:14-16 refers to Jesus sitting on a single cloud in the 3rd heaven and reaping into the 3rd heaven (beginning mid-tribulation) the souls of those in the church who will be killed (Revelation 14:13) by the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will be during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be killed for refusing to worship the Antichrist and his image, and refusing to receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-16, cf. Revelation 15:2, Revelation 20:4-6).

That is, Revelation 14:12-13 refers to Christians being patient and faithful to the point of death in not worshipping the Antichrist and his image, and not receiving his mark, knowing that if they do those things, they will be punished by God with eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-13). But if they refuse to do those things, when they are killed by the Antichrist, their still-conscious souls will be reaped by Jesus into the 3rd heaven (Revelation 14:14-16, Revelation 15:2). And they will later be resurrected into physical immortality along with the rest of the obedient church (of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53, Revelation 20:4-6), immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Revelation 14:12-13 is the same idea as 1 Thessalonians 5:10-11, meaning that obedient believers can have the Spirit's comfort at any time (John 14:15-17), in any tribulation (2 Corinthians 1:4-7), no matter whether they live or die.

Daniel1136 said in post 86:

So Ezekiel 38; 39 does reveal the battle of Armageddon as does Revelation [14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21] the same

Revelation 14:19-20 can refer to the Antichrist's killing of non-Christians who won't worship him (such as radical Muslims, ultra-Orthodox Jews, hardcore atheists, etc.) being God's wrath against those non-Christians. Revelation 14:20 could refer to when they get beheaded by the Antichrist (say, while they are kneeling), their blood will shoot up from their necks like a geyser as high as a horse's bridle. Also, in Revelation 14:20, the city could be Jerusalem, and the 1,600 furlongs is about 200 miles, so that Revelation 14:19-20 could mean that the Antichrist's beheading of people who won't worship him will begin at Jerusalem and the surrounding region, when he sits (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

But when the Antichrist beheads Christians for not worshipping him (Revelation 20:4), this won't be God's wrath against those Christians, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:17).

Daniel1136 said in post 86:

So Ezekiel 38; 39 does reveal the battle of Armageddon as does Revelation [14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21] the same

Regarding Revelation 16:1-16, the world will experience the 7 last plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation chapters 15-16), the last stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, after the never-fulfilled Revelation chapters 6 to 15 have been fulfilled. At the 1st vial, an awful sore will appear on only those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). At the 2nd vial, the sea will become like the blood of a dead man, and every living creature in the sea will die (Revelation 16:3). At the 3rd vial, all natural, surface sources of fresh water will become blood (Revelation 16:4). At the 4th vial, men will be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). This would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma, which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic-pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future tribulation.

At the 5th vial, the whole world will be plunged into literal darkness (Revelation 16:10). At the 6th vial, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9), and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together in an attempt to defeat YHWH God (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). The Euphrates will dry up so that the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (i.e. the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the riverbed and gather at the "place" called Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). Once they have gathered there, as only a staging area, with all the other armies of the world (Revelation 16:14,16), they won't wage battle there (that is why the Bible doesn't refer to a "battle" of Armageddon). Instead, they will travel south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

At the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20), and 100-pound hailstones will pummel the earth (Revelation 16:21). The 7th vial will also be when Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed (Revelation 16:19).
 
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BABerean2

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It looks like once most of us make up our mind on an issue like this, we do not want to see anything that may show we could be wrong. This is a part of human nature. I am also guilty of the same thing.

A few months ago I came across the article in the link below that challenged my understanding at the time.

Everyone on this thread should read the article in the link, even if you do not agree with the conclusion by the author.


Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy
 
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shturt678s

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More of a spiritual battle than the 'effect' of the battle, wars. At Rev.16:16 the frog like unclean spriits successfully brought the kings together (noting Satan's personal release in Rev..16:13). We are shown only the gathering at Armageddon.

Then in apposition to Rev.20:7, "loosed shall be Satan loosed" being "Gog and Magog." IOW we are here concerned only with the apposition and not with the whole prophecy of Ezekiel. In order to understand the symbolical use of "Gog and Magog" in Revelation it's enough to know that in Ezekiel these were such great enemies of Israel that God himself wiped them out with fire, hail, and brimstone from heaven.

Only old Jack just thinking out loud again.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Armageddon (Rev.16:16) = Parousia at the end of time.

Gog and Magog = the time before, Rev.20:7-10 then Armageddon.

Btw being fulfilled as we're about at Rev.20:7 with Satan's personal loosing.

Old Jack's opinion

Sorry, but that makes absolutely little sense. If Armageddon is the Parousia, and Gog-Magog happens before Armageddong, then wouldn't that make 2 Parousias?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7431980/#post58220238
Where is the Parousia of Matt 24 showing in Revelation?






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shturt678s

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Makes little sense to me also as should have eyeballed the passages again before posting, ie, made correction at post #93...thank you again...good job!

Matt.24:29-30 = Parousia

Old correctable Jack
 
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Danoh

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Actually, there are TWO Gog and Magog Events.

From the youtube video,"The Gog and Magog Invasions - Richard Jordan," is based on an indepth study on the book of Daniel that Jordan arrived at back in the 1970's. This video is a recent, way, way shorter version of it all - way shorter. But there is enough there for those willing to study out, rather than right off dissgree with what does not fit their reasoning.

"Sorry, Jack" [Van Impe] lol

By the way, the chart he so easily lays out is an overview of Mid-Acts.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=56tY6PPj960
 
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shturt678s

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One extreme to another, ie, use to be a serious student of the Word....with age view things more humorously. When you're at the lower end of the pecking order, our Lord doesn't expect that much out of you.

The humor is if the Amill. ancient old outdated works that I summarize bringing forward and happens to ring valid later compared to all the 'big boys' of today....going to be way more than a lol moment.

The Gog and Magog have been and continue to be all those in league against the Christian Church, eg, anti-christian scientific speculation, higher criticism, and so on....wide in scope say including Eddyism and say materialism we see in our churches today, eg, Jesus + world.

Old Jack's opinion
 
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Danoh

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Your response, Ol Jack, is a good example, of a violation of those principles -f study I just now outlined in the Bible Study Principles thread.

In their absence, both one's own reasoning, as well as that often found in books suppossedly Bible based, appears sound.

And woe to those with long years down that path. In that to get past the thick wall of ear wax.that can result will require a small miracle.

Reminds me of the reasoning of one so built up in same. A severe alcoholic.I once knew. One day, he moved away for several years.... Came back... a leg amputated just below his knee, and.an arm amputated just above his wrist...

'What happened to you,' I asked. "I dropped my bottle while waiting for a train and the train ran me over, when I jumped on the tracks to try and save my bottle...," he calmly replied. 'What'da do that for,' I asked, amazed. 'It was a brand new bottle!,' he exclaimed...

That actully made sense to him...

One does not start out at such unreasonableness... one grows into it...

Bad place to be... and for the same place as its opposite... "by reason of use..."
 
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