Armageddon and gog and Magog are Different Battles over 1,000 years apart

[MbiaJc]

Hi

Quote


Unless a person, since the Garden of Eden, can receive the mark of the beast?
End Quote

NOW YOU ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE. This is the Truth of Scripture

?.

The First Resurrection takes place at the end of the sixth Trumpet beginning of the seventh Trumpet……………….Which is the Same as the seventh Veil. The viels and trumpets are the same events just seen from different perspectives.

This is verry interesting, however it does not follow with Rev 19 & 20 for the first resurrection takes place 1000yr before this. The only ones resurrected at the first is the beheaded ones. Rev. 20 is verry clear about this. Christ has not come as a thief yet. He comes as a thief in the second resurrection, which is at the seventh trumpet.

No! I do not see the trumpets and vails as the same event.

Rev 11:15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Above we have the Saints getting their reward. Notice that the prophets also get their reward at the same time. This belief that you are espousing that the first resurrection is only of the Great Tribulation Saints is just not true. Are you really saying you believe if you die at the hands of the AC you will be raised BEFORE the Apostles.

There you go again not reading or not comperhending what I do say. Where did I say the Great Tribulation Saints? If you are going to quote me, quote me not what you would have me say.
What I am saying is what Rev. chapters 19 & 20 are saying. This is the correct time line.
There is nothing in scripture that says the Apostles haft to be raised first, however there is about the beheaded ones. Actually I think a lot of the Apostles were beheaded.
You are using your man made doctrine here also.

Look at Rev 6

9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The Above verses speak of all who have died in the name of the Lord from OT days through to Stephen and the Apostles the Martyrs of the Roman persecutions. The One who ARE TO DIE ……..AS THEY HAD DIED are the Great tribulation saints.

Yes, but this does not say one word about them being resurrected at this time. You are using your man made doctrine here.

Since it is utterly ridiculous to believe that the Apostles will not be rewarded until after the 1,000 years we then can look at Peter Again.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which theheavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Here peter quite clearly says that the Earth is burned up WHEN THE THIEF COMES.

This is shown in Detail as to how it happens in the Trumpets and Viels of revelation

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Clearly Peter is saying that the new heaven and the new Earth Arrive with the Thief. They dwell in this place which is clearly holy Jerusalem out of Heaven

Yes, but think what Peter just said and go to the time line in Rev. 19 &20 to see when this takes place. It is not till the end of the 1000 yr reign.

Rev 21:1: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

When Holy Jerusalem Arrives at the Morning light of judgment day the Risen Saints take their Thrones.

This is your man made doctrine talking again. This scripture says nothing about saints sitting on thrones.

Rev 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

We know this is the Saints……….. the Saints judge all with Jesus………………… man and Fallen Angles.

We don't even by a far stretch of our imignation. Because if you would read the rest of that verse it will tell you who sits on these thrones. The beheaded ones

1Cor:6:3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Mt:19:28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

You are confusing present judgment of the Church and future judgments at the Judgment seat of Christ with the Great White Throne Judgment.
Take note of your scripture quote: it is the 12 Apostles that sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. It doesn't say it here, but the 12 elders of Israel will be sitting on thrones also making it 24.

The Belief that the Saved and the Wicked are raised at the same time is not supported by Scripture. The Saints are raised FIRST given Thrones to sit on then The Wicked are raised to be judged by the Saints on the thrones.

Oh it doesn't, you must have not red Rev. 20:11-15
All of this is your man made doctrine, however there are some what hints in scripture that the two are seperated, but this scripture plainly clears up any dout that there is not a seperate resurrection.

Where people have a hard time is they think in Human Terms and can not see how this 1,000 years can be in-between the Two events. If what I am saying is true, and it is, then Judgement day is 1,000 plus years long. How can this be they all say.

No judgment day is not 1,000 yr long!

Peter Give us the Answer

2Pt:3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That does not prove judgment day is a 1000yr long. For that to be so Jesus would haft to come as the thief at the first resurrection. Which cannot happen, because the heaven and earth ,as we know it, is destroyed at or just before His return as the thief in the night. Jesus does not come as the thief till the end of the 1000yr.

Nothing is in scripture by chance. Clearly to God judgment day can be 1,000 years plus long…………and he will still refer to it as a day.

So is there other scripture that shows us the righteous being raised at a different part of the day then the wicked?

Ps:37:6: And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

Well you have a better imignation than I, because that verse does not even mention a resurrection.

YES THERE IS Psalms also clearly separates the two events first the righteous to receive their reward and later in the day the wicked at judgement.

Man, your man made doctrine has got the better of you?

Saints are not judged they are rewarded only those charged with offences go before the Judge. The Saints Have no offences to be judged they have been washed clean in the blood of the lamb.

The saints are judged according to their works and rewarded accordingly at the judjment seat of christ.

Now what I have shown here is that ……………

• When the thief Comes the Earth is all burnt up. As laid out in rev 8-12 and 14-16. Notice the Thief comes at the end of the sixth veil in Rev 16:

No the thief does not come then! That is the battle of Armageddon, which is 1000yr before Christ comes as the thief.

• When the Thief comes we should look for the new heaven and new Earth as told to us by Peter.
  

• Agreed.
  

• That the new Heaven and new Earth arrive WITH HOLY JERUSALEM.

• agreed

• That the raising of the Saints in rev 20: of the First resurrection INCLUDES all who are saved. To understand this you have to understand WHAT the mark of the beast really is. Once you understand that you will see that people have been receiving this mark from the beginning.

• You need to read Rev. 20 again. The only ones raised are the beheaded ones at the first resurrection. The mark of the beast has nothing to do with it, except the ones priviliaged to be the beheaded ones have not recieved it or worshiped the beast.
  

Now I would Like to address one last Thing .that is that you have provided NO evidence that the kings of the East come After Israel. The reality is scripture shows us THERE IS NO ISRAEL when the Kings of the East gather. Israel will have been nuked and destroyed by the Arabs…..2/3 of the jews will die……………the 1/3 that are left will be thrown in the furnace of affliction. After the king of the South attacks and destroys Israel then the AC will Come and take over the holy Land. Here is Daniel telling us this in Plain words.

You are at least partly right. The kings of the earth come after the one riding on the white horse(which is Christ and his armies from heaven). Part of Israel will be carried back to Babylon as captives.

Dan 11:40: And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41: He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Clearly the AC takes over the glorious Land…..not only that we are told he builds his Palace in Jerusalem. He will first rebuild the Temple. then he will sit in the inner rooms of the Temple and declare himself as Jesus returned. This all happen during the fifth trumpet.............. this is the Great Tribulation. This si when the AC's great wonder takes place. It takes place at his arrival at the fifth Trumpet.

agreed

It is at this point that the Kings of the East gather their 200,000,000 man Army to come at the AC. Once Again Daniel tells us this.

Dan 11:44: But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

This is confirmed in rev both in chapter 9 and chapter 16
Rev 9:14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Rev 16:12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Could be

So what the AC does is this

Rev 16:13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The AC Gathers an Army to go out and meet and destroy the Kings of the East. Well that is the propaganda he unleashes.

So now you know the mind of the AC, such as you can predict what he will say. Huuuuuuuuuum.

The Reality is all the leaders of the World at this point are demon possessed or they are fallen Angels appearing as men.. The kings of the East and the AC are really gathering to Battle Jesus and the Saints at his return.

Partly agree, the leaders of the nations that come to battle, maybe

This has been the AC plan from the very first…………………His plan has been to deceive mankind into being his army to battle and defeat the Armies of heaven thus overthrowing God. Here is the scripture.
Isa:14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

agreed

Rev 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Well above we see the Thief has Come so we know from Peter that the Earth is burned up as laid out in the Trumpets and veils.

Not so! this is not when He comes as a thief, that is 1000yr later

So Jesus defeats the Beast…………………destroys the Armies and the kings of the World…………………..throws the beast in the Lake of fire……………the Devil who is not the Beast is captured and locked in the pit….which is not the lake of fire………………….So that he can not deceive the Nations to gather for battle.

agreed

New heaven and New Earth are created and Holy Jerusalem comes down and the Saints take their thrones and receive their reward.

When the 1,000 years ends Gog and Magog surround Holy Jerusalem………and fire comes down from heaven and destroys them.

Then the Wicked are raised and Judged By the Saints sitting of the Thrones.

Non of this happens in this order and I am getting tired of explaining it. YOu need to really study the 19&20 chapters of Rev.

This whole Thing from when the Thief comes to when the Wicked are judged is To God one day Judgement Day.

That is your man made openion with no scripture to back it up.

z

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

I think I can clear something up here When I said the Great tribulation Saints. It is what you seemed to be suggesting to me only those who had not worshipped the Beast that to me says during the great tribulation. If you are saying you do not see the Saints of the Great Tribulation as not receiving the Mark sorry for the misunderstanding.

In Greek there is no punctuation. What we have in rev 20 is not ONE group of people it is different groups.

We have

the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus. This includes the Apostles as cutting off the head was thought to be a way to deny them resurrection.

We Have

Those killed for the word of God,

Despite what most believe it is long been taught that Prophets that were killed prior to Jesus had their heads sawed off.

Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword;

We have

who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand.

Do a study on Gods Sign that you wear on your hand and forehead

It is only the English translations that makes one think this is one group.

In the Greek it is much easier to see this as many different groups.

Quote
No the thief does not come then! That is the battle of Armageddon, which is 1000yr before Christ comes as the thief
End Quote

What are you talking about that is your man made doctrine Scripture is clear,

12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air

How can you say the thief comes 1,000 years after Armageddon he clearly comes in-between the sixth and seventh trumpet/bowl .In fact at the seventh Trumpet/bowl Which is at Armageddon. wow talk about ignoring scripture for the Doctrine of men.

Scripture is very clear about this. You are just plain wrong

 

[exodus19]

you remeber the other day i had a thread called the """parting of the sea""" and said it was not water as in liquid that was parted but people and armies, and the Lord allowed the troop of Moses and family go over the sea, dryshod, or made dry. and i said all this was just that the armies either side were hushed by God, since Moses and company did not pose a threat being as poor as they were and without ammo, nor in a fighting pose.

now look her at your verse 12 and see that the vial of the 6th angel dried up the Euphrates and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of kings of the east might be prepared.

note the waters dried up, ____AGAIN THIS IS A PEOPLE NOT A RIVERBED BUT PEOPLE WHO WERE MADE USELESS_____
the next verse 13 is also in symbolic form as it says in 14 the FROGS ARE PEOPLE NOT LITTLE BLUE POISON FROGS LIKE THE STORIES THEY SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE CHURCH AND THEY MAKE PICTURES TO KIDS AS IF FROGS JUMPIN IN THE CAMP OF EGYPTIANS WERE KILLING PEOPLE BY BITING THEM.
LIIKE THE CALL THE LOCUST PLAGUE, THE LOCUSTS WERE PEOPLE TOO, AND THE RED SEA WAS A BATTLE GROUND WHERE MUCH BLOOD WAS SHED ONLY LATER DO WE FIND A LAKE SO NAMED AND ALL YOUR STORIES GONE AMUCH B/C OF IT.

and 15 ' behold , i come as a thief, blessed is he that keep his garments SEE ANOTHER USE OF GARMENTS WHICH IS NOT CLOTHES PER SAY BUT KEEPS HIS SPIRIT IN LINE WITH GOD 'S WILL_________LEST HE WALK NAKEDED ______that' doesn't imply being in a nudist camp,____ but a sinner and adam and eve were found naked, shamed for their sin. ___do you think there sin was listening to talking snakes or doinfg the hanky panky out of lusty lust lovemaking so called for their own whimy whim whim.

get the picture,______________NO CONSENSUAL SEX AND IN MARRIAGE

HOW ABOUT FASTING FOR 24 HOURS EVEN A LITTLE PRAYER , THAT YOU COME NOT INTO THE BED B/C OF YOUR LUST, IE INCONINENCY.

HUH, WONDER WHY JESUS WAS CELIBATE??????????????

AND repeated better that one be enuch from birth, oh well so much for the word celibate,

and your churches love to promote happy good freewheeling sex life in marriage b/c the bed is not defiled in marriage _____________ah gees " not defiled" what did that mean? that meant you need to married to plant the seed not be lusty and take advantage of viagra and the liberalism the gove churches promote as sin sin and be happy. " jesus died for you to a liberal vote democrate and watch the sodomy laws change, oh boy.

16 and he gather them into a place called armageddon and they WENT CRAZY WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THAT THEY'RE WHITE HOUSES WERE ACTUALLY MAY DARK BY THE CLITONS AND LEWISKEY DRINKERS, DRINKS CALLED """"HEORODIUS""" THE DANCING QUEEN ________AND SHE PLEASED HEROD, _____did she ever??????? LOLOLOLOL

and armageddon was filled with lighenings and there hail stones that came down from heaven in their midst __________YUP THE WORDS OF THE BEASTS AND THEIR CRONIES WHO ALSO WEAR, AND BARE THE NUMBER 666 IN THEIR FOREHEADS


THEY WENT WILD ESPECIALLY AFTER THE HEAVENS OPENED, THE DRAGONS WERE FREAKING OUT AND THERE WENT THE LAMB AND ALL THE GOOD children dressed in white wearing the "NEW SPIRIT" given to them at the throne party ____oh how SUPER that will be and just DUPER for those in beastly attire with their garments soiled in the names on the beasts ___but the DOMES roof will blow off with the the cheers and thunderings and lightenings coming from the heavens where the messiah is there shall God be sitting on His throne and there will be the song of Moses sung


ALL _________DAY ________ALL ________NIGHT ________LONG.




ARE YOU ALL GOING TO BE THERE??????????????????????



YUP 11:19_____________YAHOOOOOO_____ PARTY OF DREAMERS


(*_*)______________________(*_) (_*) ONE EYE JACKS JUST A LITTLE GAME

WITH A BUNCH OF POKER FACES, ________PERHAPS


THE 1000 YEAR REIGN HAS ALLREADY STARTED THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE 3RD DAY AS IN ONE DAY IS LIKENED TO 1000 YEARS SO NOW IS THE 3RD MIL AND HENCE THE THIRD DAY STARTED AT 11.19.99 TH LAST ODD DAY OF THE 2CD MIL AND THERE WILL BE APPROX 1000 YEARS BEFORE THE NEXT EVEN DAY ON THE CALENDAR.

SO WHAT IS 11.19 ________99 IT'S THE SAME NUMBERS THAT CORRESPOND TO

___________11:19 REVELATION, AND IT'S JUST A MYSTERY THAT GOD WOULD CONFIRM HIS SON IN THE CORDINATES AND NOT JUST IN WORD.

GOD IS TOO SMART AS I SAID THERE IS STILL ALL THE PTRTOPHETIC EXPRESSION TO CONFIRM.

i have you know there is way more that refers to the confirming of messiah this time around compared to 2000 years ago, this time the evidence is overwhelming, the last time the pharisees were not convinced b/c jesus was just a name like many jesus around toen and befor him too, and the pharisees were convinced that the times did not add up to his appearing.

AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL WAS JESUS'S TESTIMONY THAT HE HIMSELF SPENT MUCH TIME SPEAKING OF HIS OWN RETURN AND THE END TIMES.

SO hold on to your hats guys, like my daughter said " a roller coaster ride is coming to town" and what are you going to do about it.

ARE YOU IN FOR THE RIDE OF YOUR LIFE

it's going to be lots a fun________come on come all to the dance of the Queen and her friends though they won't be so happy, we know what our dance will be like

THAT'S RIGHT _____ON THEIR HEADS __________(*()*) ____HEY CUTIE___ LOL

OH, YOUR JUST A PRETTY LOOKING QUEEN AREN'T YA???????

HALO,AMERICA HOW ARE YA, DON'T YOU KNOW ME I'M YOUR FAVORITE SON.

LOL

 

[bertie]

Ahhh the exuberance of youth........get out the lithium,Ma!this guy is way too happy!

 

[exodus19]

lol,

by,bye, not buy, bi

(-:

don't worry be happy

try whistler a tune for me bertie

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi

I think I can clear something up here When I said the Great tribulation Saints. It is what you seemed to be suggesting to me only those who had not worshipped the Beast that to me says during the great tribulation. If you are saying you do not see the Saints of the Great Tribulation as not receiving the Mark sorry for the misunderstanding.

The tribulation saints has nothing to do with this, it is the simple plain word of God, the beheaded ones are the only ones resurrected at this time. I don't know how much
plainer it can be said than the Greek or KJV says it?

In Greek there is no punctuation. What we have in rev 20 is not ONE group of people it is different groups.

Not so! It is the beheaded ones. The reason they were beheaded was, because of the word of God, and had not worship the beast, neither his image, or recieved his mark. There can not be amy more plainer English than that. That is exactly what the Greek and the KJV says. The KJV is the most acurate transulation I have found for study.

We have

the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus. This includes the Apostles as cutting off the head was thought to be a way to deny them resurrection.

Not all the apostles had their heads cut off. Remember this is a privilage and hounor that only Jesus can give.

We Have

Those killed for the word of God,

Despite what most believe it is long been taught that Prophets that were killed prior to Jesus had their heads sawed off.

Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword;

We have

who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand.

You insist on your man made doctrine even when showed the plain truth of the word of God.

Do a study on Gods Sign that you wear on your hand and forehead

It is only the English translations that makes one think this is one group.

In the Greek it is much easier to see this as many different groups.

Only if one insist on keeping his man made doctrin, instead of the plain truth of the word.

Quote
No the thief does not come then! That is the battle of Armageddon, which is 1000yr before Christ comes as the thief
End Quote

What are you talking about that is your man made doctrine Scripture is clear,

12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air

How can you say the thief comes 1,000 years after Armageddon he clearly comes in-between the sixth and seventh trumpet/bowl .In fact at the seventh Trumpet/bowl Which is at Armageddon. wow talk about ignoring scripture for the Doctrine of men.

Scripture is very clear about this. You are just plain wrong

No the word is plain that the thief, if you will, comes at the 7th trumpet, not at a vail. There is 1000yr that seperate battle of Armageddon and Gog and Maygog, the word is also crustal clear about this. And after Gog and Maygog, the second(general resurrection, saints first then the wicked dead). Then the saints stand before the gudgment seat of Christ. Judged and rewarded according to our works. The wicked are judged and cant into the lake of fire. Then the New Heaven Earth and New Jerousalem. Rev. 19, 20, and 21 is clear on this.

What we have is the thief coming at the end of the 1000yr. Because it is the plain word of God, that when the world and heaven as we know it is destroyed.(man can't survive on this earth after the thief, if you will comes) And the word is also plain that nothing that defiles can enter into New Jerousalem.

Ps: Have you read the scripture i gave you for Ezek. and Jermiah? Also it is in bits and pieces through out Isaiah. Run the cross references and you will pick up a lot that pertains to the last days.

Also about the kings of the east. I have restudied some of that and it is rediculous to say that at least in the beginning they were after what was left of Iseral. Till they seen the King coming riding a white horse. look where the battle takes place. Is it not in Israel? They destroy Babylon in Iraq first then head for Jerousalem. Which these two cities represent the two major religions on earth. The beast and ten kings think if they destroy them they have won, till they see the KING OF KINGS COMING. upooooooooooooo they make the final mistake, they come against Him.

I also think the DAY OF THE LORD may be 1000yr but we disagree on the order of events happening.
When Babylon is destroyed it is the DAY OF THE LORD VENGEANCE the vengeance for His Temple, that Neb. and the others destroyed. (Look at who He uses to take his vengeance out on Babylon)

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

I totally agree Armageddon is 1,000 years before Gog and Magog. One thing you have not made clear to me is your understanding of who is being spoken of in Rev 20:4 is it not these
(i think it is far more then just these but what do you think)

11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The reality is you are reading something into rev 20 :4 that just is not there. It is Not Just those beheaded it is also those who died for the Word of God................and Those who testified of Jesus......and those who did not worship the Beast or receive his mark.

To understand this YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE MARK of the Beast and the Mark of God that is worn on the Forehead and hand.

Not everyone who dies for not worshipping the beast will be beheaded.

We can say this with 100% certainty.........because we know they will dies as those under the alter died and we know how they died and not all had their head cut off. You are just seeing what is said here because your own doctrine has you perceiving the verse as speaking of one group when in fact it speaks of different groups.

The Seventh trumpet and Bowl ARE THE EXACT SAME EVENT...........Here is the seventh trumpet

18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Above is the kingdom come

With Five points

Kingdom set up
lightning
Voices
Earthquake
Hail

now in rev 16 and the seventh viel

17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. .................21: And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

With Five points

Kingdom set up
lightning

Voices
Earthquake
Hail

Not only are these two sections IDENTICAL lets go back an event to the sixth

13: And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

In Both sections we have the Army of the East coming over the Euphrates.

It is obvious to anyone not locked in a doctrine of men that these are the same events.

Your contention that the thief does not come as the Armies are gathering for Armageddon is just ridiculous.

14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

You are contradicting yourself ..in one breath you say Gog is 1,000 years after Armageddon.

Then in another breath you say the Thief comes after Gog and Magog after the 1,000 years.

Scripture is clear the Thief comes at the Time of Armageddon.............IT IS IN THE SAME VERSES.

IT DOES NOT GET ANY CLEARER THAN THAT.....................Abandon your doctrine of men and accept the plain words of God.

 

[exodus19]

(*_*)

i spent most of my time at the gallery correlating the coming of New Zion, and the reference is to the latter days as in now.

this new jerusalem coming down is also a major part to the here and now as is revealled at the 7th trump.

did you know that?

there 's a certain realizing of this by the women going off in ch 12 and being assisted by the earth.
This is all a part of the make up of the bride and the subsequent events.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi

I totally agree Armageddon is 1,000 years before Gog and Magog. One thing you have not made clear to me is your understanding of who is being spoken of in Rev 20:4 is it not these
(i think it is far more then just these but what do you think)

11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The reality is you are reading something into rev 20 :4 that just is not there. It is Not Just those beheaded it is also those who died for the Word of God................and Those who testified of Jesus......and those who did not worship the Beast or receive his mark.

To understand this YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE MARK of the Beast and the Mark of God that is worn on the Forehead and hand.

Not everyone who dies for not worshipping the beast will be beheaded.

We can say this with 100% certainty.........because we know they will dies as those under the alter died and we know how they died and not all had their head cut off. You are just seeing what is said here because your own doctrine has you perceiving the verse as speaking of one group when in fact it speaks of different groups.

If you think that you are in a groop by yourself for I don't know no ones that has arrived at that conclusion.
You and I did not have the same English taught to us. We went to different schools and set in seperate seats. And as I have already said the Greek says the verry same thing as the KJV Bible.
It should be evident to anyone that has at least a sixth grade education in english, what is being said there.
Drop your man made doctrine and stick with the plain word of God.

The Seventh trumpet and Bowl ARE THE EXACT SAME EVENT...........Here is the seventh trumpet

18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Above is the kingdom come

With Five points

Kingdom set up
lightning
Voices
Earthquake
Hail

now in rev 16 and the seventh viel

17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. .................21: And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

With Five points

Kingdom set up
lightning

Voices
Earthquake
Hail

That does not prove they are the same event. According to your doctrine anytime we hear voices, earthquake, and hail it is the end.

Not only are these two sections IDENTICAL lets go back an event to the sixth

13: And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

You ask for it, so lets look at them. At the sixth trumpet the four angels are relieced that are bound in the Euphrates.
What it says
>>>four angels
>>>bound
>>>in the Euphrates
Now what it doesn't say
>>>one word about the Euphrates being dried up
>>>one word about the kings of the East.
Now the truth of the plain word of God. Two different events.

12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

In Both sections we have the Army of the East coming over the Euphrates.

We do, would you show me in the sixth trumpet where the kings of the East are coming over the Euphrates? For I must be blind in one eye and can't see good out of the other, because I don't see the kings of the East there.

What does the sixth vail say
>>>Euphrates water dried up for kings of the East to pass over.
>>>Three spirits like frogs out of the mouth of dragon, beast,false prophet
>>>they gather the kings of the earth to the Great day of God Almighty.
>>>Warning form Jesus to keep your garments
>>>they gathered them to a place called Armageddon.
what it does not say
>>>No four angels loosed out of the Great River Euphrates.
>>>no 200,000,000 man army
>>>does not say Jesus is coming as a thief at this time.
Conclusion
>>>Two different advents, at two different times.

It is obvious to anyone not locked in a doctrine of men that these are the same events.

Well its not two obvious because there are not many that agree with that.
If it is so obvious show me?

Your contention that the thief does not come as the Armies are gathering for Armageddon is just ridiculous.

14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

These words are parenthetical. As a thief Compare Mat_24:43; Luk_12:39; 1Th_5:2, 1Th_5:4; 2Pe_3:10.

That is the truth of this scripture. Also your interpertation of it does not agree with Rev. 19, 20 and 21. Nor does it agree with Ezek 37-39, Zech 14, Joel or Isaiah.

You are contradicting yourself ..in one breath you say Gog is 1,000 years after Armageddon.

Then in another breath you say the Thief comes after Gog and Magog after the 1,000 years.

There you go again trying to make me say what you think I aught to say, instead of what I say. No where have I contradicted myself.
There is no contradiction in what I say to anyone but you.

Scripture is clear the Thief comes at the Time of Armageddon.............IT IS IN THE SAME VERSES.

IT DOES NOT GET ANY CLEARER THAN THAT.....................Abandon your doctrine of men and accept the plain words of God.

Yes it clear you need to abandon your doctrine of men and watch as the scripture is warning you to do. So that you don't get caught without a garmont, where the spirits can see your shame.

You are a big one to be talking about abandoning the doctrine of men.

z

 

[exodus19]

i just read about the kings from the east coming over a dried up euphratres today in the OT , i believe it was in several places Ps and isaiah even Exodus has those east kings coming over the dried up euphrates which oddly enough aint so dry.

i 'm getting tired, close to my bedtime it's 6:14 lol, but there is alot of of easterly king jargon in the OT, where John Got his vision from.

over 19 ex snooze buttun,
(*_

 

[Just The Facts]

HI MbiaJc

You are doing a fine job of dodging the question and the main point. Which is what is the mark of the beast.

The Mark of the Beast is the opposite of teh mark of God .

So please post what the sign of God is that you wear on your forehead and hand. Once you figure that out you will understand what the mark of the beast is.

You are also dodging the fact that the prophets DID have their heads cut off.

Greek is not read the same as English when you punctuate you can easily alter the meaning.

In Greek it is presented as different groups. the word "and" IS NOT IN THE GREEK. In addition in Greek when you are naming different pieces that apply to the same qualifier you do not repeat the qualifier part each time

So what you get is

I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus:

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the word of God:

I saw the souls of them which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

Which is the same as this group

and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great;

The kings of the East Are the Four Angles. When God divided the Countries he gave a Nation Each to the Sons of God. These are the Princes in Daniel 10: Each nation has an Angles at its Head.

It is not I who does not understand the reality of Ezekiel

Ezekiel 37 =First Resurrection

Ezekiel 38 = After the 1000 years when gog and Magog come Down.

The false teaching that Ezekiel 37 is modern Israel is the doctrine of men through and through.

Your explanation of the Thief coming in rev 16 is ................well it it is totally lame.

It is the same as Peter and Matt and your attempts to show it as not are just nonsense..................

Lets just move beyond that part for a minute or two here. You are just missing it because you seem to not understand other things involved in this.

So then in your understanding has this event happened.

13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

 

[MbiaJc]

HI MbiaJc

You are doing a fine job of dodging the question and the main point. Which is what is the mark of the beast.

How is this the main point, if I swore, I would have sware(which I don't) that it was this. Armageddon and gog and Magog are Different Battles over 1,000 years apart

The Mark of the Beast is the opposite of teh mark of God .

So please post what the sign of God is that you wear on your forehead and hand. Once you figure that out you will understand what the mark of the beast is.

Well the Lord showed me this years ago. So I didn't haft to figure anything out.
What on your forehead, your mind, what do you do with your hands, work.
So what on your mind is who\what you work for. So the mark of God or the Beast, is what on your mind(good\bad thoughts, productive\unproductive) or what your hands are doin. What you are doing is either good or bad.

You are also dodging the fact that the prophets DID have their heads cut off.

You not reading my post again?

Greek is not read the same as English when you punctuate you can easily alter the meaning.
In Greek it is presented as different groups. the word "and" IS NOT IN THE GREEK. In addition in Greek when you are naming different pieces that apply to the same qualifier you do not repeat the qualifier part each time

So what you get is

I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus:

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the word of God:

I saw the souls of them which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

Which is the same as this group

and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great;

Thinks but no thinks for the lesson in Greek.
I don't know who leg you think you are pulling, but it definately is not mine. Is your head that hard or you just plain stubborn and not able to admit you are just plain wrong?

The kings of the East Are the Four Angles. When God divided the Countries he gave a Nation Each to the Sons of God. These are the Princes in Daniel 10: Each nation has an Angles at its Head.

You think I that stupid, you are insulting my inteligence.

It is not I who does not understand the reality of Ezekiel

Ezekiel 37 =First Resurrection

Ezekiel 38 = After the 1000 years when gog and Magog come Down.

Will i should have known you would come up with some off the wall interpertation.

The false teaching that Ezekiel 37 is modern Israel is the doctrine of men through and through.

Who said it is! Go back and read my post and show me where I did if you can?

Your explanation of the Thief coming in rev 16 is ................well it it is totally lame.

Well not as lame as yours of Ezek. and the sixth trumpet and vail. And the quote below.

It is the same as Peter and Matt and your attempts to show it as not are just nonsense..................

No way hosay!

Lets just move beyond that part for a minute or two here. You are just missing it because you seem to not understand other things involved in this.

Thanks I was having a dull day till I got here. This is really funny.

So then in your understanding has this event happened.

?
13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
?
If you got something in your craw, spit it out?

1
Send me another good laugh, please, I really need one.

 

[exodus19]

fact man flies high on facts

some times he's so right on and others is so way off,

like here, just look at the mark of God and you will know the mark of the beast.

and the prophets did have their heads cut off_______ lolololol

like chop chop, drip blood into bason for wiccan treatments. lol

the thief according to you and another post is at 11:19 but he be the thief there then who is at the throne with the 7 seals in ch 5

Romeo, or is that don juan, perhaps it's a live lion they find in a cage in judah somewhere and the lamb is some well, you tell me.

the thief is just a night stalker right, chasing men and stealing sheep,

cause the GREEK WORD FOR THIEF IS NIGHT MAN WITH MASK AND and mr strongs version is always right the thief is pierce bronsman with a new mustache.

 

[Just The Facts]

HI Exodus

yes the prophets had there heads cut off………………….look at John the Baptist………………so do you think Herods niece came up with the head thing on her own ...........you are soo lost on scripture and the historical record it is sad.

Even Paul says this...........

Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword;

go do some research ......................I don't laugh at you I only have pity.

 

[MbiaJc]

HI Exodus

Even Paul says this...........

Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword;

.

Are you showing this as proof all the prophets had their heads cut off. Cause if you are trying to prove even one got his head cut of, by this scripture, then this is my laugh of the day. Thanks

I been at the VA hospital all day and need a laugh.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

So did the Jews cut off John the Baptists head. Why did the niece ask for his head Jews were typically stoned to death Except prophets who had their heads cut off.

What does Paul mean when he says they were cut in two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah

The remaining years of Hezekiah's reign were peaceful (2 Chr. 32:23, 27-29). Isaiah probably lived to its close, and possibly into the reign of Manasseh, but the time and manner of his death are not specified in either the Bible or recorded history. There is a tradition that he suffered martyrdom in the pagan reaction in the time of Manasseh. Both jewish and Christian traditions state that he was killed by being sawed in half. Some interpreters believe that this is what is referred to by hebrews 11:37 (in the New Testament), which states that some prophets were "sawn in two". It is also mentioned in the book of The Martyrdom of Isaiah that he lived into the days of Manasseh, and was also sawn in half with a wooden saw.

http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/martisah.htm

"14 of Tyre and Sidon; for for me only hath God mingled the cup.' And when Isaiah was being sawn in sunder, he neither cried aloud nor wept, but his lips spake with the Holy Spirit until he was sawn in twain."

Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance on this subject in such a fine manor....................perhaps if you would read FIRST before you ridicule that which you obviously know nothing about you would find out that it is believed that all prophets killed were killed in this way....................that is stoned and beheaded or just beheaded.

We also knowthat the vast majority of the Apostles and Saints were beheaded if not all after being killed in some other manor.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi

So did the Jews cut off John the Baptists head. Why did the niece ask for his head Jews were typically stoned to death Except prophets who had their heads cut off.

What does Paul mean when he says they were cut in two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah

The remaining years of Hezekiah's reign were peaceful (2 Chr. 32:23, 27-29). Isaiah probably lived to its close, and possibly into the reign of Manasseh, but the time and manner of his death are not specified in either the Bible or recorded history. There is a tradition that he suffered martyrdom in the pagan reaction in the time of Manasseh. Both jewish and Christian traditions state that he was killed by being sawed in half. Some interpreters believe that this is what is referred to by hebrews 11:37 (in the New Testament), which states that some prophets were "sawn in two". It is also mentioned in the book of The Martyrdom of Isaiah that he lived into the days of Manasseh, and was also sawn in half with a wooden saw.

http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/martisah.htm

"14 of Tyre and Sidon; for for me only hath God mingled the cup.' And when Isaiah was being sawn in sunder, he neither cried aloud nor wept, but his lips spake with the Holy Spirit until he was sawn in twain."

Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance on this subject in such a fine manor....................perhaps if you would read FIRST before you ridicule that which you obviously know nothing about you would find out that it is believed that all prophets killed were killed in this way....................that is stoned and beheaded or just beheaded.

We also knowthat the vast majority of the Apostles and Saints were beheaded if not all after being killed in some other manor.

Man two laughs in one day, at your worst than lame try at proving all prophets had their heads cut of, when you can't even prove Isaiah was beheaded. There is a big diference in being sawed in hald and being beheaded. I can't get over how you can take simple plain english and twist it the you you do. even so thanks for the laugh.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

You are very good at avoiding the reality of what I have said...................I did not say all the prophets had their heads cut off I said all that were murdered did.

The Beheading of John the Baptist followed a long held Jewish tradition of killing who they believed were false prophets. The Torah lays out that such false prophets must be killed. Stoning was the traditional way to kill them. However through out Christian history and Jewish History cutting off the head of those seen not worthy of resurrection has always been the way. That is why the Jews cut off the heads of the Saints and Martyrs .......................James is just one example of this but it is recorded that almost every single Saint killed before the fall of Jerusalem had their heads cut off. This was not a new thing for the jews it was part and parcel of the Tradition of killing a false prophet. The Saints where this is not recorded does not mean it did not happen just that it was not recorded. This tradition carried over in to Christianity. Where suicide meant your head was cut off. those burned at the stake also after being taken down to be buried had their heads cut off. It also made its way into the Muslim faith in which infidels that are killed have their heads cut off. it all has grown out of the Jewish belief that cutting off the head of a false prophet is a way to insure that their body is not raised.

You need to do more research on this subject.

Now besides that I still do not see this text as ONLY speaking of those who have their heads cut off.. As I have stated the Greek does not imply that at all. The Greek implies different groups as I have stated the beheading only applies to the first group and perhaps the second group but does not have to apply to the third group.

You still have not addresses the main point in this verse what is the mark of the Beast. You keep avoiding this point and I understand why. The reality is what we find when we understand the mark is that it can apply to every single person throughout History.

So what is the mark of the Beast?

 

[applepowerpc]

Isn't there some kind of Hebrew gematria math that says you have to subtract the head to get a good number result? I know some rabbis teach that a thief has to get his teeth knocked out. Their logic is "thief" - "teeth" = "tzaddik" (or, righteous person), if you take the numbers coming from the Hebrew words for those things.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

I am not sure of WHY it was done I just know it was done as a matter of belief. It was not something that individuals decided it was the way it was done.