Armageddon and gog and Magog are Different Battles over 1,000 years apart

[Just The Facts]

Hi MbiaJc

Well what happen in those verse I quoted..................the earth is laid waste.

So is it your position that the Saints and Jesus rule a totally devastated Earth with no trees no fish in the oceans no fresh water and the Sun scorching men and crops.

Can you not see how wrong this is.




Hi Exodus

You have provided nothing but your opinion to show this as not what is stated. True there are lots of symbols in the OT ..But you need scriptural direction to go out of the Literal. We are not given this direction in Ezekiel 38 & 39.

For you to say no these are not actually countries and people it is a symbol is just your doctrine.



Hi bertie

The KJV is flawed translation in many areas. The Translators had a doctrine and that was part of the Translation.

I often use the RSV as it was translated by a group of scholars from many different faiths so no one Doctrine got to twist the translation to suit their doctrine.

Using Concordances can be helpful HOWEVER we must remember that what we see is not what the word meant to people at the time it was written but rather HOW the word was translated by the authors of the KJV bible. So we do not get a definitive meaning for the word we get a particular translators understanding of the Word.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi MbiaJc

Well what happen in those verse I quoted..................the earth is laid waste.

So is it your position that the Saints and Jesus rule a totally devastated Earth with no trees no fish in the oceans no fresh water and the Sun scorching men and crops.

Can you not see how wrong this is.

You are adding your man made doctrine to these verses, no where does it say, that all fishes, water, and trees are destroyed. Aparently you do your Bible reading the same way you read post? The first and last sentence. Then add what you think should be in between.

You take the stand that the New heaven, earth and new Jerousalem takes place just after the beast and false prophet is cast into the lake of fire. Also the first resurrection takes place at this time. However that is man made doctrine and the Bible does not back that up.
The New hesven, earth and New Jerousalem and the second (general resurrection) does not take place till after the 1000yr reign of Christ here on earth. When the devil is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are. The Great White Throne judgment(of nations and wicked). The earth and heaven as we know it today, has been destroyed. The saints enter the New Heaven, Earth and the New Jerousalem, to be with the Lord forever.

If your theory were true(which its not) there would not be no 200,000,000 army destroyed. Where by it takes Israel 7yr to burn the wood from their weapons of war.

Can't you see how rediclous your theory is?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Quote
You are adding your man made doctrine to these verses, no where does it say, that all fishes, water, and trees are destroyed.
End Quote

Sorry perhaps I have let my understanding get in the Way. I equate the trumpets with the Veils.

I should have added these verses so I will now but first lets establish what is said here

7: The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

1//3 of the Trees and All green grass burned up.

8: And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;9: And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

1/3 of the fish in the sea deatroyed.

10: And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11: And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

1/3 of the rivers and springs turned to posion.

Now Rev 16

3: And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4: And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

So now we have all things in the sea dead and all water turned to blood.

1/3 of the earth trees burned up and all the grass burned up.

We also have the sun burning men.

So as anyone can plainly see scripture does say these things.

So I ask you again when Jesus reigns on Earth is this the condition of Earth.

As for the 200,000,000 million man army Where does it say they come against Israel .Talk about doctrine of men. It is the AC that the 200,000,000 man army come against not Israel.

But since this is your contention I will give you a chance to show scripture that shows this army coming against Israel.

here is the scripture referring to the army fo the East.

13: And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Now this is also mentioned here although the 200,000,000 million number is not mentioned the dried up Euphrates is and the Kings of the East.

12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Well it would appear that they are drawn together.............. two sides.................... the AC and the kings of the East…………….

So please do present verses that say the army of the East comes against Israel.

 

[exodus19]

blah blah blah, you are certainly stuck in literalism and it's clear the scholarly books you read are just that, Fact man. Useless work of intepretive doctrine that are not written by the Holy spirit but a collaborative effort to use words that may appear to be more physically representative of the orginal but all that does is lead you down a slippery slope of guessing what is a more appropriate word to use.

the KJV is consistent and the only translation i have ever seen that can be understood. The translators were paid men and did not necessarily try to change the sentence structure and reverse the object and subject to make the sentence easier to read.
once you do that then you have to change the conjunctive words and often the syntax which then alters the meaning and orginal intention of the speaker.

therefore as i've said elsewhere outside of the KJV, you can be led miles off base and that sets up nicely for arguement and debate which is great for the success of forums like this who feed off of differences and inconsistencies in the teachings.

so having said that and hearing your position Facts, i will look differently at the cult you belong to i mean conditioning you belong to i mean the confusion you have set yourself into i mean you're a good guy but you are now lost to the scholars and that's pretty far gone. the false prophets and all.

don't be so heavy man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh ok.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Blah blah blah............your desire to be the one who decides what is and what is not a symbol is the reason we have so many doctrines. Only Scripture can tell us such things No one including you has the licence to spiritualise away the plain words of God. As far as Books I read......................... I have read many doctrinal books they all wish to do as you and put their spiritualisation on the plain words of God. None speak the Truth they all spue the same nonsense as You......................The Spirit speakes to me and I have be anointed......Blah Blah blah.................Funny we have soooo many anointed all spewing differnt trash.

Oh yes all you need is one translation…………… and the Vulgate was claimed to be all anyone should ever read. The KJV does change words and meanings to fit the doctrine of those who translated it.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi

Quote
You are adding your man made doctrine to these verses, no where does it say, that all fishes, water, and trees are destroyed.
End Quote

Sorry perhaps I have let my understanding get in the Way. I equate the trumpets with the Veils.

I should have added these verses so I will now but first lets establish what is said here

7: The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

1//3 of the Trees and All green grass burned up.

8: And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;9: And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

1/3 of the fish in the sea deatroyed.

10: And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11: And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

1/3 of the rivers and springs turned to posion.

Now Rev 16

3: And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4: And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

So now we have all things in the sea dead and all water turned to blood.

1/3 of the earth trees burned up and all the grass burned up.

We also have the sun burning men.

So as anyone can plainly see scripture does say these things.

There you go again, nobody said scripture never said those things. You are trying to spin in the no spin zone. If you have the privilige to keep adding scripture, you can make it say what you won't it to.
You are mixing vails with trumpets, The vails are poured out on the kingdom of the beast which is before the 1000yr reign.
The seals 1-5 and trumphets 1-5and the vails 1-6 happen before the 1000yr. reign. The 6th & 7th seals and 6th and 7th trumpet and 7th. vail happen after the 1000yr reign of Christ. The 1000yr reign of Christ is before the New Heaven, Earth and New Jerousalem. Rev. 19 & 20 are clear about that.

So I ask you again when Jesus reigns on Earth is this the condition of Earth.

Not necessarely, because most things will be back to normal by the time the 1000yr reign starts. The earth is not destroyed at this time, it is destroyed at the end of the 1000yr.

As for the 200,000,000 million man army Where does it say they come against Israel .Talk about doctrine of men. It is the AC that the 200,000,000 man army come against not Israel.

Not so! The ac gathers them to battle, the batle takes place on the mountains of Israel
Rev 16: 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. The Greek is not clear whether this is a mountain or the name of a city Mayeddo in the great plains of the tribe of Issachar. This is when Christ comes riding the white horse. This is the day of the Lord's vengeance. This is the day the Lord gets vengeance for his temple at the great river Euphraties and Babylon is destroyed never to be inhapeted ever again. Jer 51:49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

At any rate I am comfusing this with the battle with Gog and Maygog, that is when Israel takes seven yrs. to burn the weapons of war. That is when the 200,000,000 man army takes place. This battle takes place on the mountains of Israel. It is described in Ezek. 38 & 39.

But since this is your contention I will give you a chance to show scripture that shows this army coming against Israel.

Ezekel 38 & 39

here is the scripture referring to the army fo the East.

13: And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

No its not! No where is the kings of the east mentioned. The 200,000,000 men army are of the four angels that have been bound in the Euphrates. This men may be humen men, but their houses are not regular horses.

Now this is also mentioned here although the 200,000,000 million number is not mentioned the dried up Euphrates is and the Kings of the East.

12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

This has nothing to do with the sixth trumpet. This is just preparing the way of the kings of the east to the battle of Armageddon. You left out verses 15 & 16 Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.(some say mountain of slaughter) The he is the ac.

Well it would appear that they are drawn together.............. two sides.................... the AC and the kings of the East…………….

No there are two sides alright, but not ac and kings of the east for they are on the same side. This is the ac and the kings of the earth coming against Israel they have already destroyed Babylon, now they are coming after Israel only Jesus Christ interveins.

So please do present verses that say the army of the East comes against Israel.

Jermiah chapters 45-51 You need to study the OT more.

z

 

[MbiaJc]

Hi JTF: This is the way I see most of the entime scriptures. Give me outline as to how you see the end times. Thanks in advance



The Truth About The Resurrections

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE FIRST AND SECOND RESURRECTION​

THE SECOND RESURRECTION TAKES PLACE IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION

Mat 24:29Immediately after thet ribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, andt hemoon shall not give herl ight, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat24:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather to gether his elect from the four winds ,from one end of heaven to the other.

In Jesus own words, He makes it clear when He will return. Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation of those days. He has also said He wouldn’t come back till Israel is righteous. Israel repents at the sixth trumpet, second woe.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Peter says concerning the second coming.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the
heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner ofpersons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Job says concerning the second resurrection.
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

I view Revelation as mostly future. The starting of the great tribulation is when we see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. There is no rapture; there is a first and second resurrection. The second takes place at the last day.. Which is when the seventh trumpet blows also, the great white throne judgment, new heaven and new earth etc?

THE SECOND RESURRECTION WILL TAKE PLACE ON THE LAST DAY​

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Exactly what is meant by the last day? The last day is the last day of this earth as we know it. In the New Jerusalem, which is in the new heaven and earth there will be no night, there will only be day.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.

THE LAST DAY IS ALSO WHEN THE LAST TRUMPET BLOWS

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

With the seventh trumpet being the last trumpet when it sounds all the mysteries of God will be finished as He has promised His prophets. We are in the New Jerusalem which is in the New Heaven and Earth, at this point.

THE FIRST RESURRECTION​

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I sawthe souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Notice it is only the beheaded ones that are resurrected and will reign the thousand years with Jesus Christ.

I don’t know when the first resurrection and the thousand yr. reign of Christ take place. It couldn’t have taken place when Christ was resurrected, because of Rev. 20:4. Because the only time they could have received the mark of the beast is during anti-Christ reign. This hasn’t taken place yet. Unless a person, since the Garden of Eden, can receive the mark of the beast?

 

[exodus19]

Mbiajc,
you are much better read than 'factman' he is mountain ranges away in his understanding. You have read more, of the OT than he and it shows, but there is still some attachement to some physical stuff in your writings.
when you say the east kings and AC at the set battleground are you implying the stand of the 7 hills which the harlot stands on?

And are you aware of the symbolism of the 3 frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon.
Do you remember how many times you read dragon( KJV) in the OT and the inference that those expressions. Have you understood the relationship to the prophecy of David, the Prince of Peace, who is he scheduled messiah.

Having said that , do you concur with the expressions in Rev ch 2 about David and that ch 5 and ch 22 confirms this David the comforter and lion of judah in the midst as the one who opens the seals.?

mr fact man put forth an erroneous concept that 1/3 of the grass and trees will be burned, obviously he has some attachment to the physical destruction of the earth and calculated as 1/3 if a storm came and burned 1/37 ot the world, would he say it's not the end times because it's got to be exactly 1/3? probably?
So you can pretty much tune his garble out now, he needs to go back and read some more. i concur.

Now do you understand that trees being burned, are men, but again not actually burned but caused to align with the beasts, hence where the mark of the beast, and be in the 'lake ie sea of fire ' which is the liberal lands of lust and greed and war, famine, and pestilence?

By now if you have read enough you realize what the jews reaped for their rejection of Moses and the keeping of Gods laws and being thrown out to live among the heathens, or do you?

comments?

ex19

 

[exodus19]

ok mbiajc
we are on the same page here , (-: atleat at this hour anyway, now i have a little better understanding of your reading.
again you are quite accurate except as i have been saying over this past week many of you approach the second half of revelation, and skip the first half,
any reason for this pattern?
why do so many revelers pass on ch 2,3,4,5 and start in on the trumpets trying to guess time and place?

cause the beginning implies the messiah and his presence right?

so again as it's written there is an implied sequence that must kick in for there to be a logical understanding.
now you obviously know why i keep coming back to this , but should i know why you keep ignoring me or the Text as it's written.

are people afraid to admit i'm right?
Now you do have a pretty good understanding on the second half which really is not the second half at all but for dividing it physically do i say this, for the set up ie the throne set up as in 4 & 5 is clearly the beginning of the weeks expression and the judgement made on the nations and the revellation of the white throne, ie white garments or white stones ie rev 2:17 that implies the cleansing of the spirits that appears at the 7th trump and the women coming forth with the man child who is the messiah as written in the 12the ch and being so called born as if it were a type Mary with child, ie 144,000 virgins that birth the messiah or are the ones standing with him as in 14:1 and are not defiled by women ie harlots or the beastly cultures which are given the female character as all nations including Zion are attributed with the female character, except she be the 'women of Youth' mention in the OT.

now there's a mouthful, but are you with me here mbiajc?

any problems? with this account?

exodus19

 

[Kingdom_Come]

are people afraid to admit i'm right?

You must first be right in order for someone to have the opportunity to admit it. From what I have read of your posts you are not. The other reason is simply that your posts tend to make little or no sense, like you are bouncing around with no clear direction, not knowing where you started or where you are going. I don’t know if this is because English is not your first language or what. This is not meant as a personal attack but just a statement of how your posts read. Perhaps most importantly are the claims you seem to make in reference to yourself which will certainly turn most people off to anything you have to say since in essence those statements are heretical if they actually mean what they are taken to mean.

 

[exodus19]

You must first be right in order for someone to have the opportunity to admit it. From what I have read of your posts you are not. The other reason is simply that your posts tend to make little or no sense, like you are bouncing around with no clear direction, not knowing where you started or where you are going. I don’t know if this is because English is not your first language or what. This is not meant as a personal attack but just a statement of how your posts read. Perhaps most importantly are the claims you seem to make in reference to yourself which will certainly turn most people off to anything you have to say since in essence those statements are heretical if they actually mean what they are taken to mean.

you repeat as others do, and i say to you as i've said before.

IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND, THEN ASK.

BUT INSTEAD YOU JUST GENERALIZE AND SAY WHAT I'M NOT.


look at the content of my my posts,
bounce around ?

they are very pointed and straight forward.

so where is messiah if he's not in human flesh, and if he be in human flesh then where should he appear?

is that too bouncy for you?

 

[exodus19]

ok mbiajc
we are on the same page here , (-: atleat at this hour anyway, now i have a little better understanding of your reading.
again you are quite accurate except as i have been saying over this past week many of you approach the second half of revelation, and skip the first half,
any reason for this pattern?
why do so many revelers pass on ch 2,3,4,5 and start in on the trumpets trying to guess time and place?

cause the beginning implies the messiah and his presence right?

so again as it's written there is an implied sequence that must kick in for there to be a logical understanding.
now you obviously know why i keep coming back to this , but should i know why you keep ignoring me or the Text as it's written.

are people afraid to admit i'm right?
Now you do have a pretty good understanding on the second half which really is not the second half at all but for dividing it physically do i say this, for the set up ie the throne set up as in 4 & 5 is clearly the beginning of the weeks expression and the judgement made on the nations and the revellation of the white throne, ie white garments or white stones ie rev 2:17 that implies the cleansing of the spirits that appears at the 7th trump and the women coming forth with the man child who is the messiah as written in the 12the ch and being so called born as if it were a type Mary with child, ie 144,000 virgins that birth the messiah or are the ones standing with him as in 14:1 and are not defiled by women ie harlots or the beastly cultures which are given the female character as all nations including Zion are attributed with the female character, except she be the 'women of Youth' mention in the OT.

now there's a mouthful, but are you with me here mbiajc?

any problems? with this account?

TELL WHAT'S BOUNCY HERE?

 

[Kingdom_Come]

you repeat as others do, and i say to you as i've said before.

IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND, THEN ASK.

BUT INSTEAD YOU JUST GENERALIZE AND SAY WHAT I'M NOT.


look at the content of my my posts,
bounce around ?

they are very pointed and straight forward.

so where is messiah if he's not in human flesh, and if he be in human flesh then where should he appear?

is that too bouncy for you?

I speak as others do because it is the truth. It is not the fault of the reader if the writer is not making what they write plain. You need to familiarize yourself with Scripture. This corruptible must put on incorruption because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Co 15:50-53). At the time of the resurrection the saints will be made like the angels. Christ is not some spirit wondering the earth eternally being born over and over again into a new human body so that He can enlighten a new generation as to how they are taking the Bible too literally and need to spiritualize half of it away and ignore all the plain truths and follow only His teaching for that generation which goes against the teachings we find in Scripture. Christ Himself taught against this and warned that many false Christs and false prophets would come and would deceive many (Mat 24).



He is the only Christ, the only Messiah. There is no other. He is the only one by whom salvation is granted. There is no other. He told the manner of His return for a reason. Just as the prophets of old prophesied what was revealed to them by God so that Christ would be recognized in the flesh, He also told us of the manner of His return so that we would know when He has arrived. It is an event of epic proportions and very hard for a mere mortal human being to copy. Of course if you can trick everyone into believing it won’t happen that way then you might have a chance of convincing them that average Joe is actually The Messiah born again for the 20th time or whatever and that Christ is perpetually being born into a new flesh and blood body with earthly parents and delivering His message to a bunch of people who don’t understand and He is perpetually being rejected. It is simply not the case.



Christ told us how He will appear when He actually returns in power and glory and it is told throughout the OT and the NT. There is no ambiguity there. All we need to do is read what He said.

 

[exodus19]

I speak as others do because it is the truth. It is not the fault of the reader if the writer is not making what they write plain. You need to familiarize yourself with Scripture. This corruptible must put on incorruption because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Co 15:50-53). At the time of the resurrection the saints will be made like the angels. Christ is not some spirit wondering the earth eternally being born over and over again into a new human body so that He can enlighten a new generation as to how they are taking the Bible too literally and need to spiritualize half of it away and ignore all the plain truths and follow only His teaching for that generation which goes against the teachings we find in Scripture. Christ Himself taught against this and warned that many false Christs and false prophets would come and would deceive many (Mat 24).



He is the only Christ, the only Messiah. There is no other. He is the only one by whom salvation is granted. There is no other. He told the manner of His return for a reason. Just as the prophets of old prophesied what was revealed to them by God so that Christ would be recognized in the flesh, He also told us of the manner of His return so that we would know when He has arrived. It is an event of epic proportions and very hard for a mere mortal human being to copy. Of course if you can trick everyone into believing it won’t happen that way then you might have a chance of convincing them that average Joe is actually The Messiah born again for the 20th time or whatever and that Christ is perpetually being born into a new flesh and blood body with earthly parents and delivering His message to a bunch of people who don’t understand and He is perpetually being rejected. It is simply not the case.



Christ told us how He will appear when He actually returns in power and glory and it is told throughout the OT and the NT. There is no ambiguity there. All we need to do is read what He said.

boy are you delusioned or what?

just look at what you said 'epic proportions', how epic like monsters and sea urchins, and giant size clouds with angels flying and giant jesus in your face , oh but only those who have magic eyes will see him fly by there door.

are you for real or what.? This is eschatology revelation, here not some fairy tale conversation or santa clause story to tell children.

when it says " flesh and blood cannot inherit the spirit of God" that is correct but that said, your spirit is not made of flesh and blood, it is eternal and accompanies the soul, EZe 18:4.

you are caught up reading the Text literally, and when you read like you do, nothing will make sense.
average joe is not messiah, who said that? but to be considering Jesus as average joe many and most did of that day.

you don't read with your feet planted on ground.

so you too think that frogs are going to fly out of the mouth of dragons?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL rolling over laughing, i too laugh at this

some "epic proportions" is it like sci-fi movies before your eyes.

wow man , cool dude some good stuff ther man check out the dragons man.

chapter 17 and that big harlot, man the Queen of harlots all 700 pounds man ya way cool man.

sorry but jesus comes with his feet firmly planted on the ground and in a bag of llesh and blood, called a body, telling you that you need to awaken the spirit unto righteousness and onesness with God and walk in the paths of glory and in the `10 commnadments.

kingdom come you ain't in it and you need atleast a week of Bible 101 with me to get some of those nighmnares out of your mind, really.

peace bro ,

i luv you just the same. As you see each of you gets a little mercy and it ain't coming from me , i'm simply the hand of Our Father.

so i thought that was pretty cool what He just said to you.

peace out

 

[Kingdom_Come]

boy are you delusioned or what?

Ah, that must be it. I must be the one who is delusional.

kingdom come you ain't in it and you need atleast a week of Bible 101 with me to get some of those nighmnares out of your mind, really.

For once you are absolutely right. I am not it and I have never claimed to be it and I can never be it. Neither can you. Also I’m not going to bother responding to the rest of what you wrote because you obviously do not have an understanding of what I believe in regard to prophecy. You continue to create your own version of what people believe when in fact no one has claimed to believe any of the things you claim they do. Again read my former posts to see where I stand on Biblical prophecy and then perhaps you can comment on what I actually do think.

 

[exodus19]

Ah, that must be it. I must be the one who is delusional.







For once you are absolutely right. I am not it and I have never claimed to be it and I can never be it. Neither can you. Also I’m not going to bother responding to the rest of what you wrote because you obviously do not have an understanding of what I believe in regard to prophecy. You continue to create your own version of what people believe when in fact no one has claimed to believe any of the things you claim they do. Again read my former posts to see where I stand on Biblical prophecy and then perhaps you can comment on what I actually do think.

why should i read your diatribe, if you never commented on mine except to say jesus flies in the sky and the ocean twelves are parting soon..

you must know i can't take you guys seriously , i have not come to take your delusions of grandeur about how jesus is supposed to appear,

i have been here for 53 years, and since childhood know my life and it's all accountable about what i said what i did and where i've been , written and all other things that prove who i am.


"the world is my footstool" and you ought to know that what happened to make that statement possible hasn't happened to just me alone, but others too , it;'s simply a fact that adds up with all the others that are all within the text.

here's one , i raced motorcycles for four years, fell off several times at speeds over 100 mph and had no less than 20 crashes. i played all kinds of sports for the schools, including football and hockey, and i'm just a little skinny man, but yet i have never broken a bone in my body. may sound like nothing but just another checkmark in the book. Add it all up and you will be curiously going how is it i just couldn't see?

and that thief , do you know hat qualifies the statement, there are several points and characteristics that prove it, but you know what you all sit afraid to ask , or don't car b.c i'm just a troll just trolling along seeing if the fish are biting. lol

exodus19 _______3 days down from heaven where Moses went to meet God.


who else went to the mount and came down

exodus 19:11 ___rev 19:11 and heaven opened in the usa 11:19

looks familiar _____much like my birthday 19.11 or 11.19 in this us.

or is this the babylon the mighy harlot , Queen of Harlots where the staging is?

and Babylon was destroyed and fell,____ those three cities ???

so you think there is a tri city Babylon that will go up in flames and that destruction must been bombed away?

you are not hearing what the Holy Spirit implies when the He speaks b/c you are haring with carnal ears and literal eyes and expecting some superduper natural event that is catastrophic and all the worls will blow up and the angel are going to fly away.

this is all the myth stuff you are cought up with.

come down to earth my friends

listen up.

here on earth as it is in the HOLY Spirit.

that's ok i understand.

(*_*)

 

[Kingdom_Come]

you must know i can't take you guys seriously , i have not come to take your delusions of grandeur about how jesus is supposed to appear,

i have been here for 53 years, and since childhood know my life and it's all accountable about what i said what i did and where i've been , written and all other things that prove who i am.

I’ve seen nothing that proves who you are. However I think many can recognize who you are and who you are not. You can keep claiming it all you want it doesn’t make it so no matter how many times you repeat it.

here's one , i raced motorcycles for four years, fell off several times at speeds over 100 mph and had no less than 20 crashes. i played all kinds of sports for the schools, including football and hockey, and i'm just a little skinny man, but yet i have never broken a bone in my body. may sound like nothing but just another checkmark in the book. Add it all up and you will be curiously going how is it i just couldn't see?

I too have never broken a bone in my body. That proves absolutely nothing.

and that thief , do you know hat qualifies the statement, there are several points and characteristics that prove it, but you know what you all sit afraid to ask , or don't car b.c i'm just a troll just trolling along seeing if the fish are biting. lol

Nothing about that statement points to you except your misunderstanding and misapplication of it. Of course proof is something you seem to have a difficult time with as you seem to think that you simply saying some things are so is proof enough.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Quote
Unless a person, since the Garden of Eden, can receive the mark of the beast?
End Quote

NOW YOU ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE. This is the Truth of Scripture.

The First Resurrection takes place at the end of the sixth Trumpet beginning of the seventh Trumpet……………….Which is the Same as the seventh Veil. The viels and trumpets are the same events just seen from different perspectives.

Rev 11:15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Above we have the Saints getting their reward. Notice that the prophets also get their reward at the same time. This belief that you are espousing that the first resurrection is only of the Great Tribulation Saints is just not true. Are you really saying you believe if you die at the hands of the AC you will be raised BEFORE the Apostles.

Look at Rev 6

9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The Above verses speak of all who have died in the name of the Lord from OT days through to Stephen and the Apostles the Martyrs of the Roman persecutions. The One who ARE TO DIE ……..AS THEY HAD DIED are the Great tribulation saints.

Since it is utterly ridiculous to believe that the Apostles will not be rewarded until after the 1,000 years we then can look at Peter Again.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which theheavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Here peter quite clearly says that the Earth is burned up WHEN THE THIEF COMES.

This is shown in Detail as to how it happens in the Trumpets and Viels of revelation

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Clearly Peter is saying that the new heaven and the new Earth Arrive with the Thief. They dwell in this place which is clearly holy Jerusalem out of Heaven

Rev 21:1: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

When Holy Jerusalem Arrives at the Morning light of judgment day the Risen Saints take their Thrones.

Rev 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

We know this is the Saints……….. the Saints judge all with Jesus………………… man and Fallen Angles.

1Cor:6:3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Mt:19:28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Belief that the Saved and the Wicked are raised at the same time is not supported by Scripture. The Saints are raised FIRST given Thrones to sit on then The Wicked are raised to be judged by the Saints on the thrones.

Where people have a hard time is they think in Human Terms and can not see how this 1,000 years can be in-between the Two events. If what I am saying is true, and it is, then Judgement day is 1,000 plus years long. How can this be they all say.

Peter Give us the Answer

2Pt:3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Nothing is in scripture by chance. Clearly to God judgment day can be 1,000 years plus long…………and he will still refer to it as a day.

So is there other scripture that shows us the righteous being raised at a different part of the day then the wicked?

Ps:37:6: And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

YES THERE IS Psalms also clearly separates the two events first the righteous to receive their reward and later in the day the wicked at judgement. Saints are not judged they are rewarded only those charged with offences go before the Judge. The Saints Have no offences to be judged they have been washed clean in the blood of the lamb.

Now what I have shown here is that ……………

• When the thief Comes the Earth is all burnt up. As laid out in rev 8-12 and 14-16. Notice the Thief comes at the end of the sixth veil in Rev 16:

• When the Thief comes we should look for the new heaven and new Earth as told to us by Peter.
  
  
• That the new Heaven and new Earth arrive WITH HOLY JERUSALEM.

• That the raising of the Saints in rev 20: of the First resurrection INCLUDES all who are saved. To understand this you have to understand WHAT the mark of the beast really is. Once you understand that you will see that people have been receiving this mark from the beginning.
  

Now I would Like to address one last Thing .that is that you have provided NO evidence that the kings of the East come After Israel. The reality is scripture shows us THERE IS NO ISRAEL when the Kings of the East gather. Israel will have been nuked and destroyed by the Arabs…..2/3 of the jews will die……………the 1/3 that are left will be thrown in the furnace of affliction. After the king of the South attacks and destroys Israel then the AC will Come and take over the holy Land. Here is Daniel telling us this in Plain words.

Dan 11:40: And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41: He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Clearly the AC takes over the glorious Land…..not only that we are told he builds his Palace in Jerusalem. He will first rebuild the Temple. then he will sit in the inner rooms of the Temple and declare himself as Jesus returned. This all happen during the fifth trumpet.............. this is the Great Tribulation. This si when the AC's great wonder takes place. It takes place at his arrival at the fifth Trumpet.

It is at this point that the Kings of the East gather their 200,000,000 man Army to come at the AC. Once Again Daniel tells us this.

Dan 11:44: But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

This is confirmed in rev both in chapter 9 and chapter 16
Rev 9:14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Rev 16:12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

So what the AC does is this

Rev 16:13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The AC Gathers an Army to go out and meet and destroy the Kings of the East. Well that is the propaganda he unleashes.

The Reality is all the leaders of the World at this point are demon possessed or they are fallen Angels appearing as men.. The kings of the East and the AC are really gathering to Battle Jesus and the Saints at his return.

This has been the AC plan from the very first…………………His plan has been to deceive mankind into being his army to battle and defeat the Armies of heaven thus overthrowing God. Here is the scripture.

Isa:14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


Rev 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Well above we see the Thief has Come so we know from Peter that the Earth is burned up as laid out in the Trumpets and veils.

So Jesus defeats the Beast…………………destroys the Armies and the kings of the World…………………..throws the beast in the Lake of fire……………the Devil who is not the Beast is captured and locked in the pit….which is not the lake of fire………………….So that he can not deceive the Nations to gather for battle.

New heaven and New Earth are created and Holy Jerusalem comes down and the Saints take their thrones and receive their reward.

When the 1,000 years ends Gog and Magog surround Holy Jerusalem………and fire comes down from heaven and destroys them.

Then the Wicked are raised and Judged By the Saints sitting of the Thrones.

This whole Thing from when the Thief comes to when the Wicked are judged is To God one day Judgement Day.

 

[MbiaJc]

ok mbiajc
we are on the same page here , (-: atleat at this hour anyway, now i have a little better understanding of your reading.
again you are quite accurate except as i have been saying over this past week many of you approach the second half of revelation, and skip the first half,
any reason for this pattern?
why do so many revelers pass on ch 2,3,4,5 and start in on the trumpets trying to guess time and place?

cause the beginning implies the messiah and his presence right?

so again as it's written there is an implied sequence that must kick in for there to be a logical understanding.
now you obviously know why i keep coming back to this , but should i know why you keep ignoring me or the Text as it's written.

are people afraid to admit i'm right?
Now you do have a pretty good understanding on the second half which really is not the second half at all but for dividing it physically do i say this, for the set up ie the throne set up as in 4 & 5 is clearly the beginning of the weeks expression and the judgement made on the nations and the revellation of the white throne, ie white garments or white stones ie rev 2:17 that implies the cleansing of the spirits that appears at the 7th trump and the women coming forth with the man child who is the messiah as written in the 12the ch and being so called born as if it were a type Mary with child, ie 144,000 virgins that birth the messiah or are the ones standing with him as in 14:1 and are not defiled by women ie harlots or the beastly cultures which are given the female character as all nations including Zion are attributed with the female character, except she be the 'women of Youth' mention in the OT.

now there's a mouthful, but are you with me here mbiajc?

any problems? with this account?

exodus19

Thanks for the complement

Well I think I follow most of what you are saying. Instead of sxipping chapters 2,3,4,5, I think we start at chapter 1

The woman riding on the beast having seven heads and ten horns ie the seven mountains are seven Gentile kingdoms that have ruled over Israel, with the ten horns being the last kings of the seven kingdoms=mountains, they to will be destroyed.
Got to go will talk to you later.

 

[exodus19]

Hi



2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which theheavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


_______________________Fact man let me hol you right here. up to this point you are doing fairly well with the exception, that you start at the middle of the Book and not the beginning as i keep telling you and others here, but anyways let's just pass on it for now.
____________ This point burned up, is very important and here is your problem. You hare loking at this expression literally when in fact you need to see it as the ENTIRE WORLD IS UNDER THE RULE OF THE DRAGONS, BEASTS WHO ARE EVIL KINGS WHO SPUE OUT FIRE OF LIBERALISM AND VARYING KINDS OF GOVE'S LIKE COMMI STUFF AND MONARCHYS AND SO FORTH. tHEREFORE THE WORLD IS BURNED AND ALL ARE IN SOME FORM OF HELL LIFE DUE TO THIS MASS OPPRESSION.
NOW enter the Book of Revelatioin. of God's Promise to relieve the pressure of the evils and permit all who want to serve Him and live again unto eternal protection of His loving embrace.

Do you understand?

not a literal burn a spiritual burning as similar to when your spirit is burned from being torn apart in a love affair gone awry. or the passion of another short term evil or greed in life only to turrn on it's head and you loose but it's only temporary but your spirit is burned, atleast you feel burned.

ok?





Here peter quite clearly says that the Earth is burned up WHEN THE THIEF COMES.

This is shown in Detail as to how it happens in the Trumpets and Viels of revelation


Mt:19:28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


_______________________Fact man , first off you are timely quite accurate as in your assertation as to the thief, but that only pertains to the mystery being confirmed, by maany and seen before both man and beast at the throne.

remember there is a set up, back in ch 5 that revels the thief who opens the seals except he only be known as the lion of judah. What you need to go back over and note, that after the first six seals there is a pause in the event and opening of the seals. This implies a point that many are now changed and believing as angels and saints, hence their stones hae become 'white' as in the reference of rev 2:17 or the white garments, ie the new spirit received.




The Belief that the Saved and the Wicked are raised at the same time is not supported by Scripture. The Saints are raised FIRST given Thrones to sit on then The Wicked are raised to be judged by the Saints on the thrones.

______________the saints are raised from the dead first, and the dead do not rise, but only the dead in christ rise.

Where people have a hard time is they think in Human Terms and can not see how this 1,000 years can be in-between the Two events. If what I am saying is true, and it is, then Judgement day is 1,000 plus years long. How can this be they all say.

Peter Give us the Answer

2Pt:3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Nothing is in scripture by chance. Clearly to God judgment day can be 1,000 years plus long…………and he will still refer to it as a day.




__________let's hold it here for a second, Here though Peter , is qhoting the OT i believe it's Chronicals that holds this saying about one day is likened to 1000 years in God.
YOu are reading into this literally as well and not spiritually as it should be read. _)_________here's what i'm saying. or what the Text implies.

when with God one day in that one day the spiritual feeling or sensation you get in the soul-spirit is the feeling of being in the eternal kingdom. What i mean by that is one day is like 20 days or 100 years or 1000 years or 50,000years. That said it's all the same, b.c God is not anything but in the eternal kingdom and whether you be in the kingdom one day or 1000 thousand days all days are the same in that there is an eternal character about it, that does not feel like an other, or the typical day of the physical world which is bent in shortcomings.





So is there other scripture that shows us the righteous being raised at a different part of the day then the wicked?

Ps:37:6: And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

YES THERE IS Psalms also clearly separates the two events first the righteous to receive their reward and later in the day the wicked at judgement. Saints are not judged they are rewarded only those charged with offences go before the Judge. The Saints Have no offences to be judged they have been washed clean in the blood of the lamb.

Now what I have shown here is that ……………

• When the thief Comes the Earth is all burnt up. As laid out in rev 8-12 and 14-16. Notice the Thief comes at the end of the sixth veil in Rev 16:

• When the Thief comes we should look for the new heaven and new Earth as told to us by Peter.
  
  
• That the new Heaven and new Earth arrive WITH HOLY JERUSALEM.

• That the raising of the Saints in rev 20: of the First resurrection INCLUDES all who are saved. To understand this you have to understand WHAT the mark of the beast really is. Once you understand that you will see that people have been receiving this mark from the beginning.

_______________________here again though you say " you have to know the mark of the beast, the mark is obvious, that's not rocket science, the only thing is, ""confirmation"" which comes from the lamb or thief if you want, which is to say the messiah, as he expands upon the mark, revealling the number 666, confirming the mark.



Now I would Like to address one last Thing .that is that you have provided NO evidence that the kings of the East come After Israel. The reality is scripture shows us THERE IS NO ISRAEL when the Kings of the East gather. Israel will have been nuked and destroyed by the Arabs…..2/3 of the jews will die……………the 1/3 that are left will be thrown in the furnace of affliction. After the king of the South attacks and destroys Israel then the AC will Come and take over the holy Land. Here is Daniel telling us this in Plain words.

Dan 11:40: And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41: He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Clearly the AC takes over the glorious Land…..not only that we are told he builds his Palace in Jerusalem. He will first rebuild the Temple. then he will sit in the inner rooms of the Temple and declare himself as Jesus returned. This all happen during the fifth trumpet.............. this is the Great Tribulation. This si when the AC's great wonder takes place. It takes place at his arrival at the fifth Trumpet.

It is at this point that the Kings of the East gather their 200,000,000 man Army to come at the AC. Once Again Daniel tells us this.

Dan 11:44: But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.


The Reality is all the leaders of the World at this point are demon possessed or they are fallen Angels appearing as men.. The kings of the East and the AC are really gathering to Battle Jesus and the Saints at his return.

This has been the AC plan from the very first…………………His plan has been to deceive mankind into being his army to battle and defeat the Armies of heaven thus overthrowing God. Here is the scripture.

Isa:14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


Rev 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Well above we see the Thief has Come so we know from Peter that the Earth is burned up as laid out in the Trumpets and veils.

So Jesus defeats the Beast…………………destroys the Armies and the kings of the World…………………..throws the beast in the Lake of fire……………the Devil who is not the Beast is captured and locked in the pit….which is not the lake of fire………………….So that he can not deceive the Nations to gather for battle.

New heaven and New Earth are created and Holy Jerusalem comes down and the Saints take their thrones and receive their reward.

When the 1,000 years ends Gog and Magog surround Holy Jerusalem………and fire comes down from heaven and destroys them.

Then the Wicked are raised and Judged By the Saints sitting of the Thrones.

This whole Thing from when the Thief comes to when the Wicked are judged is To God one day Judgement Day.

So though you are not bad at discerning a timeline of events here there remains just a few obvious open ends.

first may i return to your last point here ' FIRE COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN' this is not a literal fire but again the same as is breathed by the dragons or beast or men as you have properly identified them before.

What you are missing to connect the dots is the fire from the dragons moutn is coming down b/c the heavens are being missidentified as the sky b/c of the similar character in that both are spirit burnings one comes from the heavens as in the HOly Spirit ie God the other ie from the Sipirit of the Devil or King Evil which also in one sense comes from above as in coming down from a type -white house- _______________understand there Fact man.???????

YOU HAVE JUST A FEW MISSING INGREDIANTS BUT THERE IS QUITE ALOT OF WORK OR TIME YOU HAVE PUT INTO YOUR EFORTS.

THOUGH I'VE COMMENTED IN A NEGATIVE WAY ELSEWHERE ON YOUR OPINIONS , YOU ARE A SERIOUS STUDENT OF THIS BOOK AND YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM BEING ROUNDED OUT.

THINK A LITTLE MORE PRAGMATICALLY AND NOW GO BACK TO THE EARLY CHAPTERS AND TRY TO SEE THE COMING INTO THE FORUM OR ARENA OF THE SET UP IN A MORE HUMAN LIKE WAY , THOUGH IT IS SPIRITUAL

PEACE FACT MAN.

EX19

PS I HAD TO CUT OUT FROM THE ORGINAL POST BY 'FACT MAN' TO MAKE IT CONFORM TO THE REGS.