Arguments for the Existence of God

[Dave Ellis]

He is all knowing...but we are not. This is Him letting us express who we are - we are demonstrating our fate.

What's the point?

You say it is full of errors because you do not understand. The errors are the result of confusion which God placed on all language. But therein is also the truth, but it must be discerned spiritually. So, while it has the appearance of foolishness, it is a masterpiece of riddles.

And yet god is apparently not the author of confusion, as per what the bible says.

Ironically enough, by defending the contradictions in the way you did, you created yet another contradiction.

There are far better explanations for the errors and contradictions we find in the bible.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That was one of my points more or less.

Well then what's the problem?

If we agree that atheists don't need to derive their morality from materialism...why the persistence of atheists not being "consistent" with the "implications" of atheism?

 

[Ana the Ist]

You say it is full of errors because you do not understand. The errors are the result of confusion which God placed on all language. But therein is also the truth, but it must be discerned spiritually. So, while it has the appearance of foolishness, it is a masterpiece of riddles.

So why don't you just tell us this "truth" which you've discerned "spiritually"?

I understand that you believe words aren't perfect for the job, but regardless, it's something that you believe you "know" so you must be able to express it somehow with words. Otherwise, how would you possibly be able to think of this truth?

So let's hear it....this great truth that's so important.

 

[ScottA]

What's the point?

The point is, God is just: that if we are to be condemned, it is of our own doing.

And yet god is apparently not the author of confusion, as per what the bible says.

Ironically enough, by defending the contradictions in the way you did, you created yet another contradiction.

There are far better explanations for the errors and contradictions we find in the bible.

The would-be contradictions, as you put it, are not contradictions at all - you simply don't see past the riddle: There are two narratives. So, then, if I read Yes, and you read No...we go our separate ways - it's brilliant!

 

[ScottA]

So why don't you just tell us this "truth" which you've discerned "spiritually"?

I understand that you believe words aren't perfect for the job, but regardless, it's something that you believe you "know" so you must be able to express it somehow with words. Otherwise, how would you possibly be able to think of this truth?

So let's hear it....this great truth that's so important.

What do you think we have been doing? (Rhetorical) That is exactly what we have been doing, but our words are as the words of the original text - just more foolishness to you. The point is, it is all riddles. There are two narratives being spoken/written, so one person reads Yes, and another reads, No - and because of it, we go our separate ways. It's brilliant and yet you do not see it. But it is the conflict and confusion that you yourself have identified that makes it evident, even if you don't see it.

If there were even the smallest spark of light coming through to you, you would turn and look, and you would be wise to do so. But if this too, just amounts to the same foolishness to you...then that will be your lot in life.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

What do you think we have been doing? (Rhetorical) That is exactly what we have been doing, but our words are as the words of the original text - just more foolishness to you. The point is, it is all riddles. There are two narratives being spoken/written, so one person reads Yes, and another reads, No - and because of it, we go our separate ways. It's brilliant and yet you do not see it. But it is the conflict and confusion that you yourself have identified that makes it evident, even if you don't see it.

If there were even the smallest spark of light coming through to you, you would turn and look, and you would be wise to do so. But if this too, just amounts to the same foolishness to you...then that will be your lot in life.

You do realize that you're making zero difference to the non-theists here, right?

 

[bhsmte]

You do realize that you're making zero difference to the non-theists here, right?

It would appear, he is mostly speaking to himself.

 

[Dave Ellis]

The point is, God is just: that if we are to be condemned, it is of our own doing.

Not being presented with evidence that would lead us to believe is our fault?

The would-be contradictions, as you put it, are not contradictions at all - you simply don't see past the riddle: There are two narratives. So, then, if I read Yes, and you read No...we go our separate ways - it's brilliant!

Or, you're simply making excuses for a book that is hopelessly self-contradictory.

 

[ScottA]

You do realize that you're making zero difference to the non-theists here, right?

Jesus said, he did not come for the healthy, but for the sick. I will add, neither do we come for the dead, but for the living. Matthew 22:32

 

[Ana the Ist]

What do you think we have been doing? (Rhetorical) That is exactly what we have been doing, but our words are as the words of the original text - just more foolishness to you. The point is, it is all riddles. There are two narratives being spoken/written, so one person reads Yes, and another reads, No - and because of it, we go our separate ways. It's brilliant and yet you do not see it.

It would be brilliant if god avoided "riddles" and "confusion" when delivering what believers consider to be a rather important message from him.

But it is the conflict and confusion that you yourself have identified that makes it evident, even if you don't see it.

I'm not sure you understand what "evident" means.

If there were even the smallest spark of light coming through to you, you would turn and look, and you would be wise to do so. But if this too, just amounts to the same foolishness to you...then that will be your lot in life.

I've no use for riddles and confusion when it comes to seeking wisdom. At least you understand that much.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Jesus said, he did not come for the healthy, but for the sick. I will add, neither do we come for the dead, but for the living. Matthew 22:32

Are you Jesus?

 

[ScottA]

Not being presented with evidence that would lead us to believe is our fault?



Or, you're simply making excuses for a book that is hopelessly self-contradictory.

The evidence is you - you are the manifestation of who you are, as a demonstration of your fate. I make no excuse.

 

[Dave Ellis]

The evidence is you - you are the manifestation of who you are, as a demonstration of your fate. I make no excuse.

I am evidence that I exist... That says nothing about a god though.

 

[ScottA]

It would be brilliant if god avoided "riddles" and "confusion" when delivering what believers consider to be a rather important message from him.

I'm not sure you understand what "evident" means.

I've no use for riddles and confusion when it comes to seeking wisdom. At least you understand that much.

The brilliance of a sting, is that it only catches those who do not perceive it.

 

[ScottA]

I am evidence that I exist... That says nothing about a god though.

Actually...your existence here and now...is not "I am" evidence, but rather evidence that "you were" only a part of history.

 

[Mediaeval]

Well then what's the problem?

If we agree that atheists don't need to derive their morality from materialism...why the persistence of atheists not being "consistent" with the "implications" of atheism?

It has been a long thread. I'll let "John" answer:

“[To] all my Atheist friends.

Let us stop sugar coating it. I know, it’s hard to come out and be blunt with the friendly Theists who frequent sites like this. However in your efforts to “play nice” and “be civil” you actually do them a great disservice.

We are Atheists. We believe that the Universe is a great uncaused, random accident. All life in the Universe past and future are the results of random chance acting on itself. While we acknowledge concepts like morality, politeness, civility seem to exist, we know they do not. Our highly evolved brains imagine that these things have a cause or a use, and they have in the past, they’ve allowed life to continue on this planet for a short blip of time. But make no mistake: all our dreams, loves, opinions, and desires are figments of our primordial imagination. They are fleeting electrical signals that fire across our synapses for a moment in time. They served some purpose in the past. They got us here. That’s it. All human achievement and plans for the future are the result of some ancient, evolved brain and accompanying chemical reactions that once served a survival purpose. Ex: I’ll marry and nurture children because my genes demand reproduction, I’ll create because creativity served a survival advantage to my ancient ape ancestors, I’ll build cities and laws because this allowed my ape grandfather time and peace to reproduce and protect his genes. My only directive is to obey my genes. Eat, sleep, reproduce, die. That is our bible.

We deride the Theists for having created myths and holy books. We imagine ourselves superior. But we too imagine there are reasons to obey laws, be polite, protect the weak etc. Rubbish. We are nurturing a new religion, one where we imagine that such conventions have any basis in reality. Have they allowed life to exist? Absolutely. But who cares? Outside of my greedy little gene’s need to reproduce, there is nothing in my world that stops me from killing you and reproducing with your wife. Only the fear that I might be incarcerated and thus be deprived of the opportunity to do the same with the next guy’s wife stops me. Some of my Atheist friends have fooled themselves into acting like the general population. They live in suburban homes, drive Toyota Camrys, attend school plays. But underneath they know the truth. They are a bag of DNA whose only purpose is to make more of themselves. So be nice if you want. Be involved, have polite conversations, be a model citizen. Just be aware that while technically an Atheist, you are an inferior one. You’re just a little bit less evolved, that’s all. When you are ready to join me, let me know, I’ll be reproducing with your wife.

I know it’s not PC to speak so bluntly about the ramifications of our beliefs, but in our discussions with Theists we sometimes tip toe around what we really know to be factual. Maybe it’s time we Atheists were a little more truthful and let the chips fall where they may. At least that’s what my genes are telling me to say.”

Source: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/the-inevitable-consequence-of-an-atheistic-worldview/

 

[Dave Ellis]

Actually...your existence here and now...is not "I am" evidence, but rather evidence that "you were" only a part of history.

No, the fact I am here right now serves as evidence of my existence...

 

[ScottA]

Are you Jesus?

He is with me.

 

[Dave Ellis]

He is with me.

Really? Right there? What's he going to have for dinner?

 

[ScottA]

No, the fact I am here right now serves as evidence of my existence...

"Right now"...yes.