Arguing about scripture is more fun than obeying it?

[Xeno.of.athens]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom. The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives. Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life. Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment than simply engaging in arguments about it.

 

[sandman]

I disagree .... Sorry I had to

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I disagree .... Sorry I had to

Of course

 

[BobRyan]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom.

amen to that!

The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives.

And the fact that it is the Word of God Himself. As the children of God - we delight in the Word of God

Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation

If one holds it at enough of a distance that might be all it is to them.

But for the rest -- it is the Word of God. In Mark 7:6-13 Christ holds that aspect of it in very high regard even in a context where He is disagreeing with the official magesterium of the One True Nation Church of His day - started by God at Sinai.

, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life.

Amen!

For the "Word of God is living and active and sharper than a two-edged sword" - even penetrating as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Heb 4:12)

Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose

It is in fact "obey God Himself" - Here is how Christ puts this idea of obeying His Word

Matt 7:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’​

​

24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and its collapse was great.​

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom. The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives. Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life. Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment than simply engaging in arguments about it.

Thanks for sharing. As Christians we are called to defend the truth. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to Christian doctrine. The foundation layed down by the Prophets and Apostles with Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Chief Cornerstone must be kept pure. Unfortunately it will encounter a few arguments along the way.
Blessings.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Thanks for sharing. As Christians we are called to defend the truth. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to Christian doctrine. The foundation layed down by the Prophets and Apostles with Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Chief Cornerstone must be kept pure. Unfortunately it will encounter a few arguments along the way.
Blessings.

what does that mean?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

what does that mean?

2 Timothy 3:15
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Clare73]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom. The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives. Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life. Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment than simply engaging in arguments about it.

Most true and necessary. . .but not all there is.

Faith is likewise doctrine (Ac 6:7, Ac 14:22, Gal 1:23, Eph 4:13, Php 1:27, 1Th 3:10, Jude 3, Jude 20, etc.), of which it is important to keep pure (1 Ti 4:16, 1 Ti 1:10) and to keep sound for the sake of encouraging others and refuting those who oppose it (Tit 1:9), as in Judaizers and Gnostics of his time.

You knew I would. . .

 

[bling]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom. The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives. Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life. Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment than simply engaging in arguments about it.

Yes. I have one-on-one studies going on with university students who ask some of the same questions.

 

[Blade]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom. The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives. Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life. Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment than simply engaging in arguments about it.

Duh when you know your right! Arguing is not fun. Debating learning seeing how someone else sees understands is fun.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Most true and necessary. . .but not all there is.

Faith is likewise doctrine (Ac 6:7, Ac 14:22, Gal 1:23, Eph 4:13, Php 1:27, 1Th 3:10, Jude 3, Jude 20, etc.), of which it is important to keep pure (1 Ti 4:16, 1 Ti 1:10) and to keep sound for the sake of encouraging others and refuting those who oppose it (Tit 1:9), as in Judaizers and Gnostics of his time.

You knew I would. . .

Yes, I knew it.

Yet, to obey is better than sacrifice.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, I knew it.

Yet, to obey is better than sacrifice.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. . .

In context, that refers to sacrifices offered by disobedient and insincere hearts, not the sacrifices themselves.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Duh when you know your right! Arguing is not fun. Debating learning seeing how someone else sees understands is fun.

The short answer is

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.​

1 Samuel 15:22

Sacrifice is like discussing doctrine, it is external, an activity, something one can do without being changed by law or gospel. It may be "fun" without serious change of heart and conduct and character, it ought to be intended to change one's heart, conduct, and character. It ought to make one good.

 

[Clare73]

The short answer is

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.​

1 Samuel 15:22

Note that in context, it is the "sacrifices of the disobedient" that are being compared to "obedience to the Lord,"
which obedience is preferred to disobedience.

It is not a comparison of the "sacrifices of the obedient" to "obeying the voice of the Lord."

Sacrifice is like discussing doctrine, it is external, an activity, something one can do without being changed
by law or gospel. It is ultimately "fun" without serious change of heart and conduct and character.

The sacrifices were external, but God required an internal obedient heart to accept and delight in them.

The same with doctrine.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Note that in context, it is the "sacrifices of the disobedient" that are being compared to "obedience to the Lord,"
which obedience is preferred to disobedience.

It is not a comparison of the "sacrifices of the obedient" to "obeying the voice of the Lord."

This what the passage is about

So Saul defeated the Amalekites, from Havilah as you go to Shur, which is east of Egypt. He captured Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were not willing to destroy them utterly; but everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed. Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, "I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands." And Samuel was distressed and cried out to the LORD all night. Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul; and it was told Samuel, saying, "Saul came to Carmel, and behold, he set up a monument for himself, then turned and proceeded on down to Gilgal." Samuel came to Saul, and Saul said to him, "Blessed are you of the LORD! I have carried out the command of the LORD." But Samuel said, "What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?" Saul said, "They have brought them from the Amalekites, for the people spared the best of the sheep and oxen, to sacrifice to the LORD your God; but the rest we have utterly destroyed." Then Samuel said to Saul, "Wait, and let me tell you what the LORD said to me last night." And he said to him, "Speak!" Samuel said, "Is it not true, though you were little in your own eyes, you were made the head of the tribes of Israel? And the LORD anointed you king over Israel, and the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are exterminated.' "Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD, but rushed upon the spoil and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD?" Then Saul said to Samuel, "I did obey the voice of the LORD, and went on the mission on which the LORD sent me, and have brought back Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. "But the people took some of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the choicest of the things devoted to destruction, to sacrifice to the LORD your God at Gilgal." Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king."​

1 Samuel 15:7-23 NASB

The contrast IS about obedience as opposed to Sacrifices offered by a King who was disobedient. HIs sacrifices were according to the rules, but they were disregarded because he disobeyed. Hence to obey is better than sacrifice. It means "I do not want your rituals, I want your loving obedience". It is a theme repeated all through the scriptures.

And in the context of this thread it is about, "Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life."

 

[Ceallaigh]

The purpose of scripture, whether it be religious or philosophical in nature, is not to provide entertainment or pleasure, but rather to serve as a source of guidance and wisdom. The true value of scripture lies in its ability to offer insights and lessons that can help individuals live meaningful and fulfilling lives. Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life. Ultimately, obeying scripture is likely to bring a deeper sense of purpose and fulfillment than simply engaging in arguments about it.

It seems like you're saying there can't be both. That one can't apply scripture if one also debates scripture with others. And why would you start so many debate threads, including this one, if you're against debating?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It seems like you're saying there can't be both. That one can't apply scripture if one also debates scripture with others. And why would you start so many debate threads, including this one, if you're against debating?

Why does that seem so to you? What in the original post suggests that to you?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Why does that seem so to you? What in the original post suggests that to you?

Sorry I misread what you were getting at. I'm not feeling well today so I'm not thinking very clearly.

 

[Clare73]

This what the passage is about

So Saul defeated the Amalekites, from Havilah as you go to Shur, which is east of Egypt. He captured Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were not willing to destroy them utterly; but everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed. Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, "I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands." And Samuel was distressed and cried out to the LORD all night. Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul; and it was told Samuel, saying, "Saul came to Carmel, and behold, he set up a monument for himself, then turned and proceeded on down to Gilgal." Samuel came to Saul, and Saul said to him, "Blessed are you of the LORD! I have carried out the command of the LORD." But Samuel said, "What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?" Saul said, "They have brought them from the Amalekites, for the people spared the best of the sheep and oxen, to sacrifice to the LORD your God; but the rest we have utterly destroyed." Then Samuel said to Saul, "Wait, and let me tell you what the LORD said to me last night." And he said to him, "Speak!" Samuel said, "Is it not true, though you were little in your own eyes, you were made the head of the tribes of Israel? And the LORD anointed you king over Israel, and the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are exterminated.' "Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD, but rushed upon the spoil and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD?" Then Saul said to Samuel, "I did obey the voice of the LORD, and went on the mission on which the LORD sent me, and have brought back Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. "But the people took some of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the choicest of the things devoted to destruction, to sacrifice to the LORD your God at Gilgal." Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king."​

1 Samuel 15:7-23 NASB

The contrast IS about obedience as opposed to Sacrifices offered by a King who was disobedient. HIs sacrifices were according to the rules, but they were disregarded because he disobeyed. Hence to obey is better than sacrifice. It means "I do not want your rituals, I want your loving obedience". It is a theme repeated all through the scriptures.

It is not a statement against God-ordained "rituals," it is a statement against offering those rituals with a disobedient heart.
Those rituals remained holy and necessary rituals ordained by God.

And in the context of this thread it is about, "Engaging in arguments about scripture may provide a sense of intellectual stimulation, but it is essential to remember that the ultimate goal should be to understand and internalise its teachings, and apply them in one's daily life."

Which I suggest requires understanding them correctly; e.g., faith vs. works.