Aren't we all physically ill?

[Gospel Guy]

One of the questions which I ask is on what basis to we rule out a lack of faith

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks... if someone is continually saying they are not healed and they are all worried about it... they are not accepting God's promises as being true for them and instead are focused on things other than God's Word which has choked any faith they had on this issue out of their life... and now, they need a doctor and in many cases after that they need an undertaker.

Jesus prayed for a few folks and they were healed as they went forth (not healed immediately), so sometimes we need to accept God's promises, live God's promises, refuse to have plan B cause God is more than enough to deliver us from ANYTHING Jesus Christ has paid to deliver us from... and go forth acting as though we are healed.

Jesus did say the Kingdom of God works on seed time and harvest, so when you plant corn in your garden... you don't go out the next day and cry "it's not God's will for me to grow corn"

 

[Gospel Guy]

Gods timing isnt always ours, in fact often isnt ours.

God said "TODAY is the day of Salvation" which means deliverance... from whatever it is Jesus paid for us to be delivered from.

It's just like getting saved... you ask Jesus in to your heart. but probably did not necessarily "feel" saved until you grew a little in the Lord... yet, you did not run off and say "God decided not to save me yet... He's making me wait for some mysterious reason"

If God is obviously saying wait

God never said anything that remotely resembles that in the NT concerning anything Jesus paid to deliver us from at the Cross. This is a trick of the devil to get you to accuse God is with holding His healing power so you will stew in unbelief and go to the doctor who will provide "scientific evidence" that you are in a bad way so they can make money off of your suffering... then you'll need a burial plot and headstone!

 

[Boidae]

Jesus didnt heal the guys daughter the second He was asked either though.. not to quibble but the guy ended up waiting for ages. you can say Jesus never said wait but Jesus had every power and aithority to heal the daughter right then but Jesus obviously decided not to and the guy had to wait until Jesus decided to heal and that wait for that guy must have seemed like forever.

To me it looks like waiting.

Its ok if it looks different to you.

Gods timing isnt always ours, in fact often isnt ours.
If God doesnt heal on my schedule I still believe God heals. It just means He has a greater plan in mind and that He is God and I'm not and I can live with that most of the time without having a tantrum that God needs to get on my program lol..

If God is obviously saying wait and the reality of life like waiting for healing was a scary reality for the guy and his daughter with Jesus then trusting God knows what Hes doing is all you can do. And God does give us help to hang in there, He always does.

We also have the story of Lazarus where Jesus didn't immediately go to his side, Jesus stayed where he was two more days after finding out that Lazarus was sick.

While he didn't say wait, he didn't leave to go and heal Lazarus right away, so there was a wait. One doesn't need to say the word "wait" but when someone doesn't show up right away, there is indeed a wait involved.

So maybe all we're doing is really arguing semantics.

 

[louise sheinholtz]

was asking to Optimax, that's why I quoted Optimax's post but thanks for your response.
God bless

After I posted I realized that. oops.
thanks

 

[JimB]

*****

Now, I have experienced satan's attacks against my physical health by experiencing all sorts of strange pains and feelings in different places in my body... and based on Mark 4:14-20 I recognize those as attacks by satan to try and choke God's promises out of my thoughts, speech, and actions and I've never had any symptoms stay for more than just a few moments as they are in fact lying manifestations designed by satan to get me to believe them in place of believing God's promises thru which I access His divine nature.

*****

Plus, you are getting older and learning what Romans 8.23 means when it says "we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."

 

[Gospel Guy]

We also have the story of Lazarus where Jesus didn't immediately go to his side, Jesus stayed where he was two more days after finding out that Lazarus was sick.

While he didn't say wait, he didn't leave to go and heal Lazarus right away, so there was a wait. One doesn't need to say the word "wait" but when someone doesn't show up right away, there is indeed a wait involved.

So maybe all we're doing is really arguing semantics.

Jesus was busy doing other things, and was not all freaked out about Lazurus as He knew raising him from the dead was no big deal for God and it would happen when He had time to get over there.

The lesson here is DON'T WORRY which is a major, major stumbling block to receiving healing which works on the seedtime harvest principle as does the entire Kingdom of God does according to Jesus (Mark 4:26, Matthew 13:24)

It comes down to God's Word works!... unless satan convinces you that it does, then it will not work for you since God is not forcing healing, salvation, or anything else on anybody.

We must believe that He IS and He is a rewarder of those that seek Him diligently instead of seeking the opinion of the wisdom of mankind (doctors) who can do nothing more by experiment on you like a guinea pig... while most doctors mean well (some are money grubbers) they fall far short of God's ability to heal.

 

[Gospel Guy]

Plus, you are getting older and learning what Romans 8.23 means when it says "we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."

That has nothing to do with not getting sick and living a long life, unless of course the catching away of the church happens before I'm about 90.

As a young man I was groaning wthin myself longing to be in my glorified body to be in the presence of the Lord due to the darkness and evil that is upon this earth.

You know, you hear how wonderful Heaven is and how wonderful it is in the Lord's presence... you can't help but want to go as does all of creation wanting to be in the Lord's presence!

 

[JimB]

*****

It comes down to God's Word works!... unless satan convinces you that it does, then it will not work for you since God is not forcing healing, salvation, or anything else on anybody.

*****

Yes, but our misinterpretation of God’s Word does not work, GG, no matter how much we think it should.

 

[Boidae]

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks... if someone is continually saying they are not healed and they are all worried about it... they are not accepting God's promises as being true for them and instead are focused on things other than God's Word which has choked any faith they had on this issue out of their life... and now, they need a doctor and in many cases after that they need an undertaker.

Jesus prayed for a few folks and they were healed as they went forth (not healed immediately), so sometimes we need to accept God's promises, live God's promises, refuse to have plan B cause God is more than enough to deliver us from ANYTHING Jesus Christ has paid to deliver us from... and go forth acting as though we are healed.

Jesus did say the Kingdom of God works on seed time and harvest, so when you plant corn in your garden... you don't go out the next day and cry "it's not God's will for me to grow corn"

My wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis over ten years ago. Her nanny and, other family and friends immediately started praying for her. My wife didn't become a Christian till 2006, three years after she was diagnosed. From the time she became a Christian, she herself prayed for healing, she followed the directions laid out in the Bible which is to have the elders anoint her and pay hands on her. I met her three years after she became a Christian. I prayed for her when I met her, not that I was a Christian at a time, but I was catholic by name and still believed that God would work a miracle for her. I confessed the Lord as my savior the same year we met, and a month later we were married.

Since then, prayer still continues, we have gone back to the elders, other pastors have prayed for her, have laid hands on her. She must have hundreds of people praying for her, if not more just because of me being on these forums.

So this isn't a next day kind of thing. People have been praying for her healing since day one of the diagnosis. So this is definitely not a next day thing.

She stands on God's promises for healing, she has faith that she will be healed and that faith has never wavered. Even now as she is getting worse, she continues to have faith that she will be healed.

Yet, she has not received the healing. I know no one can tell me why, but don't for a minute tell me that it's because of her faith, or some other reason that is her fault. I'm not saying that God is to blame, but quite possibly, He is waiting for some other time to heal her, and it could be because it will bring the most glory to Him at that time, but I will never believe that it is her fault, because I and God know better than that.

 

[Boidae]

Jesus was busy doing other things, and was not all freaked out about Lazurus as He knew raising him from the dead was no big deal for God and it would happen when He had time to get over there.

The lesson here is DON'T WORRY which is a major, major stumbling block to receiving healing which works on the seedtime harvest principle as does the entire Kingdom of God does according to Jesus (Mark 4:26, Matthew 13:24)

It comes down to God's Word works!... unless satan convinces you that it does, then it will not work for you since God is not forcing healing, salvation, or anything else on anybody.

We must believe that He IS and He is a rewarder of those that seek Him diligently instead of seeking the opinion of the wisdom of mankind (doctors) who can do nothing more by experiment on you like a guinea pig... while most doctors mean well (some are money grubbers) they fall far short of God's ability to heal.

The point of what I posted is that Lazarus and his family/friends had to wait.

 

[FoundInGrace]

We also have the story of Lazarus where Jesus didn't immediately go to his side, Jesus stayed where he was two more days after finding out that Lazarus was sick.

While he didn't say wait, he didn't leave to go and heal Lazarus right away, so there was a wait. One doesn't need to say the word "wait" but when someone doesn't show up right away, there is indeed a wait involved.

So maybe all we're doing is really arguing semantics.

Yes, true

i believe and know that waiting is a normal part of faith. patience and trust grows as we learn to lean on the faithfulness and unfailing love of our Father God regardless of circumstance. God is faithful always, He will never leave us or forsake us, underneath are His everlasting arms and He will uphold us with His righteous right hand.

There is great strength and comfort to be found on the attributes of our Father God.
Though we walk through the waters and fire He walks with us and we will not be overcome bythem whatever those may be in our lives because He is with us.

 

[Gospel Guy]

Yet, she has not received the healing

Why not? Why would she continue talking, acting, and thinking as though God did not promise healing?

When she got born again... did she say "well, God didn't save me... He's waiting to save me someday". There are people that do this, and someday never comes cause God is waiting on them since He has already done the work for us.

The problem may very well be that if you guys really start speaking, acting, thinking, and living like God's promises are true... it will likely violate your religious views and cause your family / friends to think you are nuts!

And, how often do you discipline your speech to only say what God says in His Word concerning His healing promises, and how much time is spent putting your eyes on these scriptures?

I would go to James and follow the instructions God gives for receiving His wisdom and quit talking to other people about this and wait on the Lord's direct correction and instruction... which is your only answer for the manifestation of healing.

Jesus took this disease on His physical body... so your wife could have access to His health. It's time to hear from the Lord on exactly how to access this promise and understand that her healing will come from the Holy Spirit inside her, not from without.... and your friends / family will think you are nuts, so they may choke out the Lord's direct correction and instruction which is what satan will try to do to you and your wife.

 

[Boidae]

Why not? Why would she continue talking, acting, and thinking as though God did not promise healing?

When she got born again... did she say "well, God didn't save me... He's waiting to save me someday". There are people that do this, and someday never comes cause God is waiting on them since He has already done the work for us.

The problem may very well be that if you guys really start speaking, acting, thinking, and living like God's promises are true... it will likely violate your religious views and cause your family / friends to think you are nuts!

And, how often do you discipline your speech to only say what God says in His Word concerning His healing promises, and how much time is spent putting your eyes on these scriptures?

I would go to James and follow the instructions God gives for receiving His wisdom and quit talking to other people about this and wait on the Lord's direct correction and instruction... which is your only answer for the manifestation of healing.

Jesus took this disease on His physical body... so your wife could have access to His health. It's time to hear from the Lord on exactly how to access this promise and understand that her healing will come from the Holy Spirit inside her, not from without.... and your friends / family will think you are nuts, so they may choke out the Lord's direct correction and instruction which is what satan will try to do to you and your wife.

Well, what I have been hearing and was confirmed to me just last week, is "my grace is sufficient for you."

There is a greater reason why she hasn't been healed and there is hope and comfort in knowing that reason will be revealed.

*as I was writing out the reply above I received the greatest peace I have ever felt in my life descend upon me.

edit: I will take the above as an indication that we are on the right track and that He has a greater purpose for her not to have been healed as of yet. That there will be a greater glory to Him because she hasn't been healed yet.

 

[Boidae]

Please excuse me Gospel Guy if I don't take the WoF word on what's going on. I was given peace in what I shared above, and I am going to hang onto that peace and understanding that I have received because I know it's from God.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Jesus didnt heal the guys daughter the second He was asked either though.. not to quibble but the guy ended up waiting for ages. you can say Jesus never said wait but Jesus had every power and aithority to heal the daughter right then but Jesus obviously decided not to and the guy had to wait until Jesus decided to heal and that wait for that guy must have seemed like forever.

To me it looks like waiting.

Its ok if it looks different to you.

Gods timing isnt always ours, in fact often isnt ours.
If God doesnt heal on my schedule I still believe God heals. It just means He has a greater plan in mind and that He is God and I'm not and I can live with that most of the time without having a tantrum that God needs to get on my program lol..

If God is obviously saying wait and the reality of life like waiting for healing was a scary reality for the guy and his daughter with Jesus then trusting God knows what Hes doing is all you can do. And God does give us help to hang in there, He always does.

Thank you for not quibbling

In my humble observation. There is a fairly huge difference between Jairus "waiting" for Jesus to enter his home and the people today are saying that God's making them wait days, weeks and months for some unknown reason or to teach them some type of lesson they never seem to learn well enough.

I could quickly agree with your position if the

"God is telling me to wait because....." Was supported any place in scripture. However, it just simply is not there.

Which is more destructive in the life of a hurting person:

You are sick because you don't have enough faith

Or

You are sick because God doesn't want you well until you .....


Both are wrong and horrible lies.

 

[lismore]

For example , a person prays that they will be healed and is not healed and so they conclude that Jesus said to wait.

Hello vitaminC

Well it's unfortunately unavoidable. If someone prays desperately for healing and doesn't receive it, they have no recourse but to wait.

Or a believer who prays desperately for healing and then passes away.

All the bombast in the world doesn't help then.

 

[lismore]

You are sick because you don't have enough faith

Or

You are sick because God doesn't want you well until you .....


Both are wrong and horrible lies.

Why can't we just tell the truth then?

'We don't know'

No use churning out mantras and slogans that don't translate into results for people.

 

[Boidae]

Why can't we just tell the truth then?

'We don't know'

No use churning out mantras and slogans that don't translate into results for people.

I think in all that I have ever typed, the above is what I truly mean to say when it comes to my wife.

 

[Frogster]

Of course I have heard people say that a sufferer is not healed because they lack faith. It’s a too common accusation. This is usually an admission of failure—like saying, “You were not healed for reasons I do not understand; therefore it must be your fault (because I, of course, have the faith to remove mountains and uproot trees and create universes).” I have often wondered why the blame is stuck on the poor sufferer rather than the man of faith who prayed for the healing? I guess ours is not to question why, ours is just to do ... then die.

exactly!

 

[Frogster]

I have heard it. But those of us who are not novices in the faith should be mature and experienced enough to not react to such assertions with an unthinking knee jerk reaction. We could have a discussion and ask the person why they make such an assertion. Maybe they are claiming a word of knowledge about it ? One of the questions which I ask is on what basis to we rule out a lack of faith ?

It is irresponsible to jump to the conclusion that it must be a lack of faith , but even more irresponsible to jump to the conclusion that it cannot be a lack of faith.

Because a person testifies that they have faith , do we simply accept that testimony as Gospel truth. Or is faith a quantity that is difficult to measure from outward appearance both for the outside observer and for the person making the claim.

Faith is usually made more clear over time and under testing. I don't claim to be able to objectively and accurately measure my own level of faith. I am frequently surprised at my own lack of faith or sometimes surprised that I had more faith than I realized. For myself and for others whom I have know well enough to get a glimpse into their faith walk , faith has it's ups and downs. There are times of doubt and times of certainty.

Anyway , I think that it is important that the Christian community develop our doctrine from things that are certain such as the scripture and not based upon what someone has " figured out " from either their experience or lack of experience.

I am not naive enough to accept that everyone who says that they have faith , really does. Some do and some don't.

sadly, it's not just novices who blame the ill, for a lack of faith....