Are you still a sinner?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by blindfaith
Yes, Quaffar, I did read your posts. 

From your posts, it's my understanding that you believe you are no longer a sinner, hence, my questions, which you didn't answer btw.  Do you ever sin?  If you do, doesn't that make you a sinner?  Yes, any who accept Christ as their Saviour is redeemed, but you are not perfect until you are glorified.  I believe that is the point that everyone is making here. 

Knowing that we are redeemed, and being in awe of God's saving grace, leads us to an attitude of gratitude, humbleness, gratefulness and humbleness. 

 

blindfaith,

I did not ask if you read my posts.  I asked if you read Romans 7.

And I believe I did answer your questions by asking you to please point out the portion of my 1st post that said my flesh no longer sins.  I believe I did say that as Paul states in Romans 7, there is a constant battle going on between the flesh and the mind (our inner man).  I would also like to add Romans 8.

Our inner man, being made anew, desires to follow God in every way.  But our flesh, which is not made anew, desires to satisfy itself. 

I do not consider it sin to think a bad thought.  I consider it sin to dwell on that thought and then allow my flesh to follow through with gossip, lust, ect.  If I don't allow my mind to dwell on it then my flesh will not have to fight it.

I do not claim to be sinless and perfect in the flesh.  But in my definition of a sinner (one who living as if he is without God), I use to be a sinner, but I've been redeemed.  I use to sin and had no conscience of it. 

I've been washed clean by the Blood of Jesus.  My innerman is ever conscious of when I fail.  It pricks me and  I repent immediately, and then I continue on following Him.  I do not live as if there is no God who has redeemed me.

It's a continual process for me too . . .but that does not make me a sinner (one who is living as if he is without God).

 

 

 

[Midori]

There is no such thing as a person who does not sin the only person who has ever walked the face of this planet without committing a single sin was Jesus.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Anthony
Flesh, Spirit, and Soul.

My Soul; but the Spirit? Is this spirit you talk about the Holy Spirit? The Flesh sins, so until we die we the Flesh will sin. My flesh must become smaller so that the Spirit and become Larger. Now many once we become one in Christ we are no longer 100% sinners anymore, but we still sin. And we deceive others by such such statements.

Do you think is is a good Idea for Christians to go around and tell people they are no longer sinners?

The Duck thing was an anology

Hi Anthony,

I know the duck thing was an anology.  I was just irritated with myself that I could not explain what I meant very well.

I don't think it's a good idea to tell people that they cannot stop sinning.  And that they will never be able to stop sinning until the day they die.  I hear far to many people professing Jesus as Lord who get drunk, curse, lie, etc. and then sluff it off with "well I'm just a sinner.  Can't change that." 

I believe my flesh sins, but not my innerman.  Paul makes the distinctions pretty clear in Romans 7 & 8.  The innerman is ever at war bringing the flesh into subjection to the Spirit. . .or at least it's supposed to be. 

Sorry, I gotta go, my time at the library is up.

More later.

 

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Midori
There is no such thing as a person who does not sin the only person who has ever walked the face of this planet without committing a single sin was Jesus.

Midori

This is one of those wacky topics which is more a "play on words", but one which if expressed to new believers is confusing and sets them up for even more confusion down the road. The idea is that since "all my sins are paid for" by Jesus Christ, past, present and future, I don't have to refer to myself as a sinner. From this, I no longer have any unpaid sins, therefore I am no longer a sinner. This of course is "Over-Engineered Christianity".

 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Anthony
Midori

This is one of those wacky topics which is more a "play on words", but one which if expressed to new believers is confusing and sets them up for even more confusion down the road. The idea is that since "all my sins are paid for" by Jesus Christ, past, present and future, I don't have to refer to myself as a sinner. From this, I no longer have any unpaid sins, therefore I am no longer a sinner. This of course is "Over-Engineered Christianity".

 

Anthony,

This is not my interpretation of Romans 7 & 8 at all. Maybe someone teaches that but not the group I run with.

I believe it a bigger problem to give any believer new or old the impression that they have no power over sin.  That they are completely helpless to it and are forever bound to it.  And living as if they will not have to answer to God for it.  That is the real lie.

My flesh does continue to sin.  Not as much as it use to but on occasion it still does.  By the power of Jesus Christ I have authority over my flesh and I can buffit it to obedience.  I'm not saying that it is easy, but the more one does it the more obedient to the Spirit the flesh becomes.

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Originally posted by Quaffer

I believe it a bigger problem to give any believer new or old the impression that they have no power over sin.  That they are completely helpless to it and are forever bound to it.  

 

What makes you think that this means they have no power over sin?  ONce the Holy Spirit lives in you, convicts you, etc.  You have GREAT power over sin.  Knowing God and wanting to be pleasing in his sight makes it MUCH easier to say no to sin.  However, this Doesn't mean that you will ALWAYS resist sin.  To say so is to to put yourself on level with Christ.

 

[Hector Medina]

I am fallen I NEED my savior:

Lord Jesus Christ!


God Bless,

Hector

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Quaffer
I believe it a bigger problem to give any believer new or old the impression that they have no power over sin.  That they are completely helpless to it and are forever bound to it.  And living as if they will not have to answer to God for it.  That is the real lie.

My flesh does continue to sin.  Not as much as it use to but on occasion it still does.  By the power of Jesus Christ I have authority over my flesh and I can buffit it to obedience.  I'm not saying that it is easy, but the more one does it the more obedient to the Spirit the flesh becomes.

 

Quaffer

I'am in total agreement with the comments you made. The topic at hand though is truth and advertising. Which is Christians saying to people that they are no longer sinners. That once you accept you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you can now consider yourself and tell others that you are no longer a sinner. This discussion is simply the calling or not calling of oneself as a sinner. While we start sining less and less with the power of the Holy Spirit, we will remain sinners until our death. 

 

[nickyandersonuk]

I don't think we are sinners because in the book of ephesians paul calls the people saints which means holy persons.

christ died for sin once and for all and we are no longer a prisiner of Sin. I believe when the bible talks about a sinfull nature its talking about our character, which as been trained to do wrong but like anything else we can change our character, and this is what God goes to work on.

we may sin occasionally but that don't makes us a sinner.

I read a Book Called Victory Over the Darkness By Neil T. Anderson

its about our identity who we are in christ and it explicitly says we are no longers sinners
we are children of the light, holy and dearly loved, we are in christ, and that it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us, if the sinfull nature has been put to death then we cannot be sinners.

answer me this if i tell a lie does that mean i am a habitual liar.

we can seperate ourselves from the sins we do with out taking on that identity.

God bless

Tons of Love

Nick

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by nickyandersonuk
I read a Book Called Victory Over the Darkness By Neil T. Anderson

its about our identity who we are in christ and it explicitly says we are no longers sinners 

But where in the Bible does it "explicitly says we are no longers sinners"? The book you mentioned is an excellant book, but doctrine come from the Bible not from Christian Books. We have to be very careful taking easy to read christian authors as scripture.

Also this topic is about going around telling people that you are no longer a sinner. We can all come up with the theories of how because we are one with Christ that we are now x y and z. The simple fact having Christians going around telling non-believers or new beleivers that they are no longer sinners, is a dis-service to Christ.

 

 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by I can eat 50 eggs
 

What makes you think that this means they have no power over sin?  ONce the Holy Spirit lives in you, convicts you, etc.  You have GREAT power over sin.  Knowing God and wanting to be pleasing in his sight makes it MUCH easier to say no to sin.  However, this Doesn't mean that you will ALWAYS resist sin.  To say so is to to put yourself on level with Christ.

What is the "this" that you are referring to?

I use to work for a religious orginization and on a daily basis would hear people claim to be depressed, sick, fearful, lazy, falling into sin, etc..  And each time after making their statement they would add, "but that's the way God made me.  I'm forgiven, no matter what I do"  The popular statement I would hear was, "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission."    

Resisting sin is up to us.  We have the choice to obey or disobey.  My flesh wants to disobey while my innerman desires and yearns to live like Christ.

If your child stumbles over a rock do you call him a "clutz"?  A good parent would never say that to their child even once, much less for his entire life. 

We are called sinners before we take on the righteousness of Christ.  Afterwards, our sins are no longer seen by Him so why would He call us sinners when according to Him our sins are washed away and we are as white as snow?  (IS 1:18)

Continuing to call myself a sinner leaves the door open for me to act like a sinner.  A seemingly good excuse for those who are looking for one. 

I was a sinner.  Now, I'm a "born-again, blood washed, Spirit filled, testifyin', child of the King". 

While my flesh is still having to be beaten down, my inner man desires to do what is right and I will speak life to it and not death.  (Prov 18:21)

I don't want to leave myself an open door for failure.  My plan is to ALWAYS resist sin.  That does not make me Christ, it makes me Christ-like.  I don't know that I will never fall.  But at least I'm aiming at never falling. 

 

[nickyandersonuk]

When God Sees us i don't believe hes sees us but Christ because it says we are In Christ. Hidden in Christ, Our Sin has been dealt with Once and it was dealt with for all. Where does it say we are sinners

 

[SnuP]

1 John 3:
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

I'm sure some of you have wonderful ways of nulllifing this verse.

If you continue to sin you do it out of choice not out of nature.  The old nature is done away with and now we have absolute freedom.  Freedom to choose.  You will do what you love.  If you sin it is because you love that sin.  If you do what is righteous it is because you love God.  If you spend all of your time in the presence of God you will never sin.  If you continue to sin it is because you do not know God in that area of your life.  If you are still controlled by sin, the sin nature, it is because you don't know God at all.

If you want to be perfect, remain in Christ and you will never sin again.  If you sin it is because you are not in Christ right there, because in that instant you love that sin more then Christ.

If you love God completely then you will not sin.

You say, "but I still live in the flesh, and as long as I have this body of flesh I will be subject to the lust of the flesh."

You are a weak brother.  Your body of flesh was crusified with Christ.  If it is dead then it is dead and has no control over you.  If you continue to sin it is because you love it.  Everything else is just an excuse.  When you recieved water baptism you should have come into agreement that the flesh was crusifed with Christ.  When you are water baptised you agree with the Spirit that you flesh is now dead.  When you sin you agree with satan that he is your ruler and not the Spirit.

Romans 6:
2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
     5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
     8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

If we are free from sin then we are free from sin.  If you continue to sin then it is because you choose it.  The only person that you can blame is yourself.

There are many people who are living large periods of time with out sinning.  It is possible.  The devil lied to the church and the church believed it.  This disception is so great that it is rare to find those who have overcome it.  But it is possible.

Are you saved? . . .   Then the choice is yours.  Are you willing to dive so deep into God that there will never be another sin in you?  Or are you fearfull and doubting?  Would you rather keep trying to do things your way?  Or are you willing to start seeking God for the answers?  All the answers.  God wants to talk to you.   Are you willing to listen?  You can hear Him if your spirit is alive.

 

[Anthony]

The confusion is over someone who has a "lifestyle of sin" and doesn't recognize it. versus a Christian who still sina, but will recognize it, feel sorry, ask for forgiveness, and repent. These two people are different. In one sin is an acceptable occurance, and in the other sin is disobedience. Both are sinners.

The question is are you characterized by your sin?

This is all over-engineered Christianity, and people telling others they are no longer sinners is just too confusing for the average Christian. We all understand what is being said here, but in the real world telling people "Oh I am no longer a sinner" gives the wrong message to those new believers and seekers. We have to be careful with our doctrine double talk.

 

[SnuP]

I tell people that now that they are saved they can live completely without sinning. That they can go without ever sinning again. If they are willing to go all the way with God.

 

[seebs]

I don't think it's possible for us to go entirely without sinning; our sins may diminish, but they're still there. Any time I start feeling like I'm close to eliminating sin from my life, I think it's time to reexamine things I've never worried about; thus far, there's always been more to do. I don't expect this to change this side of the grave.

 

[SnuP]

The solution is not to keep reexamining ourselves. We will always find something else that is wrong. The answer is to just draw close to God. Open a dialog and get to know Him on a personal level. Spend time talking with Him, get to know His thoughts. As He begins to heal your inner man you will find it very easy to not sin and trust Him instead.

By trying to do the work yourself you inadvertently set yourself up for failure.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by SnuP
The solution is not to keep reexamining ourselves. We will always find something else that is wrong. The answer is to just draw close to God. Open a dialog and get to know Him on a personal level. Spend time talking with Him, get to know His thoughts. As He begins to heal your inner man you will find it very easy to not sin and trust Him instead.

By trying to do the work yourself you inadvertently set yourself up for failure.

I would disagree in that if you don't do some self examination, you will overlook and by pass those sins which you have rationalized clean out of existence. Take a bunch of Christian men, and put them in a room together, and have them share how they deal with lust and inappropriate contentography, and you will see all sorts of rationalization of sin going on.

Becoming a Christian, opens your eyes to a whole lot of what people think of as victim-less sins. Becoming a Christian just makes you more aware that there are more than just 10 sins. Becoming a Christian doesn't mean we sing Kum-Bi-Ya, and we light candles.  

PR 27:17
As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another.

 

[SnuP]

Did you forget about this part of my post?

Originally posted by SnuP
The answer is to just draw close to God. Open a dialog and get to know Him on a personal level. Spend time talking with Him, get to know His thoughts.

By opening a dialog you allow God to deal with the issues of sin in your life that he wants to deal with.  You follow His lead not yours.  By allowing Him to examine you you will accually get somewhere.  If you rely upon yourself you will find that you make excuses rather then deal with deep issues.  Like you said, just rationalizing them.  I perfer to just take myself out of the picture and allow God to do all of the work.  It is His work anyways.  My only part is to listen and obey.

Relationship is the key to everything.  I am always suprised at how many people try to keep themselves in the loop.  Human being are a missurable failure at fixing human problems, why incourage them to stay involved when you know that they will just mess things up. 

Get out of the divers seat, climb in the back, and you will be suprised at how far you will travel.

 

[Anthony]

If you are trapped on a Desert Island and you pray to God for help. Does God show up? No, but he always sends help. Christianity is not a solo act, God's plan works with other believers. Catch the Wave; Christianity is about having relationships. The one you have God is primary, but we aren't to stop there.