ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

[1stcenturylady]

Now that is not true 1stcenturylady, All I hear again is your words over God's WORD.

You are not considering the context that you are leaving out of what your are posting. Let's have a look at the scriptures and why it is 1 JOHN 2:3-4 is talking about the 10 commandments. The CONTEXT is the first two verses which say...

1 JOHN 2:1-2
[1], My little children, THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

NOTE: The CONTEXT and reson why JOHN is writting this epistle is what? v1 THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. It goes on to say if any man sin we have an advocate with the father. This leads us into v3-4

[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM .

NOTE: So the reason for JOHN'S epistle is that THAT WE SIN NOT v1. Then in v3-4 it says
HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.
Now notice carefully what Commandments in God's WORD are associated with sin if broken or another way of asking the same question would be what is sin because the reason why JOHN is writting his epistle is that we sin not.

WHAT IS SIN

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to our neighbor in v11

links to...........

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context shortly which give the example in v15 of MURDER God's 6th Command of the 10.

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ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to...

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Context is v9; both Jew and Greek ALL under SIN, v10 None are righteous no not one, v11 None seek after God, v12 All have gone out of the way, there is none that does good [χρηστότης means MORAL excellence]. v13-18 Peace they have not known, destruction is in their way; they do not fear God. Now the CONTEXT is there is none that do GOOD which is in reference to χρηστότης MORAL excellence. Now let's look at v19-20

ROMANS 3:19-21
[19] Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Context is no one does good χρηστότης MORAL excellence. God's LAW (10 Commandments) are the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS.

PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness [צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

RIGHTEOUSNESS צדק; tsedeq in God's LAW is the standard of χρηστότης; MORAL excellence

The CONTEXT then is doing GOOD in reference to God's LAW (10 Commandments) v19 that is defines SIN and makes all the world guilty before GOD.

[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

No one is justified by God's LAW which is the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS [Moral excellence and Good] because if broken it gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin. Already defined in James as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments.

[21], But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

God's LAW is the standard of RIGHTOEUSNESS (Psalms 119:172) MORAL EXCELLENCE standard of what is GOOD. The RIGHTOUENESS of GOD outside of the LAW being witnessed by the LAW and the prophets v22 which is by FAITH in Christ; WHY? v23 because ALL HAVE SINNED broken God's LAW. v24-28 we are only made righteous by faith in Christ without the deeds of the law. v31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

.....................

CONCLUSION: PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN. All three use example of breaking the 10 Commandments as what defines sin. The CONTEXT of 1 JOHN 2:3-4 tells us that the reason for JOHNS epistle in v1 is THAT WE SIN NOT. God's WORD defines SIN as BREAKING any of God's 10 Commandments. Therefore brother with CONTEXT added back in the commandments JOHN is referring to that we SIN (breaking God's 10 commandments) is the 10 Commandments.

Can you see your error here now sister?

PS. Which ever way you want to spin it, if you want to say it's love or believing in Jesus I can still show you that everything leads back OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments through faith in God's WORD. If your interested just ask me to show you the scriptures.

Hope this helps.

John made it very clear what commandments he is referring to, except in your mind and bias. Just as he did here:

John 15:10
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Two different sets of commandments. The Father's - Ten Commandments (the law of sin and death, also called the ministry of death); and Christ's - the Law of Liberty, also called the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

You believe they are all one and the same, so keep up the error of interpretation of John's word, "commandments."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

John made it very clear what commandments he is referring to, except in your mind and bias. Just as he did here:

John 15:10
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Two different sets of commandments. The Father's - Ten Commandments (the law of sin and death, also called the ministry of death); and Christ's - the Law of Liberty, also called the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

You believe they are all one and the same, so keep up the error of interpretation of John's word, "commandments."

Amazing how many scriptures did you just ignore in ragards to 1 John 2:3-4 showing that the context was in relation to sin and breaking God's 10 commandments just to change the topic to talk about something completely different without addressing or responding to the post you were quoting from? You do know you have not addressed one post here and the scriptures in them that disagree with you right?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Amazing how many scriptures did you just ignore in ragards to 1 John 2:3-4 showing that the context was in relation to sin and breaking God's 10 commandments just to change the topic to talk about something completely different without addressing or responding to the post you were quoting from? You do know you have not addressed one post here and the scriptures in them that disagree with you right?

What he is saying is what the law was for - to show us sin. But immediately says that Jesus was manifest to take away our sin and in Him there is no sin. Thus no need for the old laws.

Even with Jesus you keep up the doctrine of weakness that we are under the law of sin and death. I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue what the gospel is all about.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What he is saying is what the law was for - to show us sin. But immediately says that Jesus was manifest to take away our sin and in Him there is no sin. Thus no need for the old laws.

Even with Jesus you keep up the doctrine of weakness that we are under the law of sin and death. I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue what the gospel is all about.

You do not need to feel sorry for me. I have posted God's WORD and I believe it. What have you posted? God's WORD is the Gospel.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You do not need to feel sorry for me. I have posted God's WORD for my belief. What have you posted? God's WORD is the Gospel.

I'll get to heaven by the Spirit, and you'll get there by trusting in the law. We are both following Jesus by the knowledge we've been given. Don't forget to keep all of it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'll get to heaven by the Spirit, and you'll get there by the law. We are really on the same side - following Jesus by the knowledge we've been given. Don't forget to keep all of it.

God's WORD says no one get's to heaven who knowingly continue to break any of God's Commandments neither do they know God *1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 3:3-10 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. My prayer of course is that I will see you in God's kingdom along with everyone else here.

 

[1stcenturylady]

God's WORD says no one get's to heaven who knowingly continue to break any of God's Commandments neither do they know God *1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. My prayer of course is that I will see you in God's kingdom.

I'll be there.

 

[sparow]

I hope you can see where God's WORD disagrees with you from what you have posted here. For everytihng you have claimed here scirpture has been provided showing where God's WORD disagrees with you. It is God's WORD not mine.

If you cannot respond to these posts and the scriptures in them you do not have to but at least you should ask yourself are these scriptures posted here true and pray about what is being discussed here.

Simply ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. This is posted and said in all love and respect and only as a help. May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

With equal love and respect, I haven't a clue what got up your nose. The post that I replied to did not mention scripture.

I don't think anything I have said in my post can be proved or disproved from scripture; there is an assumption on your part that you understand and interpret scripture better than I. I do not know what the mark of the beast is; but I know it is of interest to those who want to dink the wine of his or her fornication and engage in other forms of corruption. It is interesting what the mark of a Christian is:

1 John 1:3 (AMP)
3 What we have seen and [ourselves] heard, we are also telling you, so that you too may realize and enjoy fellowship as partners and partakers with us. And [this] fellowship that we have [which is a distinguishing mark of Christians] is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

With equal love and respect, I haven't a clue what got up your nose. The post that I replied to did not mention scripture.

I don't think anything I have said in my post can be proved or disproved from scripture; there is an assumption on your part that you understand and interpret scripture better than I. I do not know what the mark of the beast is; but I know it is of interest to those who want to dink the wine of his or her fornication and engage in other forms of corruption. It is interesting what the mark of a Christian is:

1 John 1:3 (AMP)
3 What we have seen and [ourselves] heard, we are also telling you, so that you too may realize and enjoy fellowship as partners and partakers with us. And [this] fellowship that we have [which is a distinguishing mark of Christians] is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

Sorry brother sparrow, I owe you a big apology. The reply was not meant for you. Thanks for letting me know. I will go back and delete it. Many thanks and apologies once again and thanks for your thoughts.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I agree with the SDA on many points; much of my disagreement would come under the heading of semantics. The Pope is not a beast, Rome is. Rome is greater than the Catholic Church. The beast that is significant is the one with the gold head, silver chest, bronze middle and iron legs; this is the beast that Christ will destroy; Rome is the legs or transport system. The SDA has previously taught that the US is the two horned beast; I believe the two horned beast is greater than the US and is not defined by National borders; more likely defined by Masonic symbols. The two horns are more likely the two party system, democrats and Republicans, conservatives and socialist; the adversary legal systems. The false prophet I would guess is the UN, the authority behind climate change, sexuality, and political correctness.

The lottery concept is good for explain many things; the Sabbath, (the seal of God), is a winning ticket; the loosing tickets are a set of which sunday is a subset; notice I used a small "s", not very important.

Hi brother, I hit this as a wrong reply post earlier. Once again my apologies and thanks for your thoughts. I know we have had a few conversations in different threads and I know we generally agree on much. It is nice to see someone else who loves God's WORD like yourself. I am not sure if I know anyone that believes the Pope is the beast? It is interesting studying prophetic scriptures. The reason I think why there is so many interpretations of these scriptures is that many break the first rule of prophetic interpretation outlined in *2 PETER 1:20. Scripture needs to interpret the scriptures in relation to scripture symbols. Thanks for your view however, I appreciate your thought. Sorry for the mix up earlier.

God bless.

 

[sparow]

Amazing how many scriptures did you just ignore in ragards to 1 John 2:3-4 showing that the context was in relation to sin and breaking God's 10 commandments just to change the topic to talk about something completely different without addressing or responding to the post you were quoting from? You do know you have not addressed one post here and the scriptures in them that disagree with you right?

On this point I am on your side; but I'd like to give a commentary on this sub-debate. You believe the commandments mentioned in are the Ten or all of the Law; 1stcentuarylady is saying there are two sets of commandments; OT commandments and NT commandments, and these NT commandments are "Love God with all your heart and treat your neighbour as you would have him treat you". The Bible teaches that if one fulfils the two great commandments one has also fulfilled all the Law; but the opposite is also true; if one fulfils all the Law one also fulfils the two great commandments.

1stcentuarylady's defence is: John 15:10 (NKJV)
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

I do not believe there are two sets of commandments, there are to witnesses, the Father and the Son and they have to be in agreement. Jesus said, if He says something and the Father does not confirm it, then what Jesus has said is not true. But there is a difference; in the OT the contract is made with the Father and in the NT the contract is made with the Son, but both contracts remain valid.

John 15:12 (NKJV)
12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

This may be a new statement but the content is still the Law being fulfilled, and always expected of Israel.

So what is the argument about?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

On this point I am on your side; but I'd like to give a commentary on this sub-debate. You believe the commandments mentioned in are the Ten or all of the Law; 1stcentuarylady is saying there are two sets of commandments; OT commandments and NT commandments, and these NT commandments are "Love God with all your heart and treat your neighbour as you would have him treat you". The Bible teaches that if one fulfils the two great commandments one has also fulfilled all the Law; but the opposite is also true; if one fulfils all the Law one also fulfils the two great commandments.

1stcentuarylady's defence is: John 15:10 (NKJV)
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

I do not believe there are two sets of commandments, there are to witnesses, the Father and the Son and they have to be in agreement. Jesus said, if He says something and the Father does not confirm it, then what Jesus has said is not true. But there is a difference; in the OT the contract is made with the Father and in the NT the contract is made with the Son, but both contracts remain valid.

John 15:12 (NKJV)
12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

This may be a new statement but the content is still the Law being fulfilled, and always expected of Israel.

So what is the argument about?

Hello brother sparrow.

Yes I believe the same as you that there is not two different sets of laws but one and the same that are expressed through faith that works by LOVE in all those who are born again *JOHN 3:3-7 under the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. You can pick up my argument and scripture support for this section in the linked post here click me.

The covenants are another subject happy to discuss them in detail if your interested.

The overall argument for me is that God's 10 commandments in both the OLD and NEW COVENANTS have the same role they always have and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. They make nothing perfect and we are not saved by them *EPHESIANS 2:8, but they are the very mirror that show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour *JAMES 1:23. It is the very schoolmaster that leads us to Christ and to the foot of the cross without excuse to solely rely on and believe the promises of God's WORD that we might be forgiven by faith and free from sin to love and walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16.

If there is no Law then there is no knowledge of what sin is because sin is the transgression or breaking of God's law *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. If you have no knowledge of sin you have no need of a Saviour to save you from sin. If you have no Saviour than you have no salvation because you are lost and still in your sins and the wages of sin is according to God's WORD is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

The NEW COVENANANT promise to LOVE is to establish God's LAW in the heart of those who are born again through faith to believe and follow God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. JESUS says LOVE is not separate from God's LAW but on LOVE to GOD and MAN hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin *JOHN 8:31-36. This who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27 and need to be born again to LOVE. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

God bless

 

[sparow]

Hello brother sparrow.

Yes I believe the same as you that there is not two different sets of laws but one and the same that are expressed through faith that works by LOVE in all those who are born again *JOHN 3:3-7 under the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. You can pick up my argument and scripture support for this section in the linked post here click me.

The covenants are another subject happy to discuss them in detail if your interested.

The overall argument for me is that God's 10 commandment in both the OLD and NEW COVENANTS have the same role they always have and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. They make nothing perfect and we are not saved by them *EPHESIANS 2:8, but are the very mirror that show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour *JAMES 1:23. It is the very schoolmaster that leads us to Christ and to the foot of the cross without excuse to believe the promises of God's WORD that we might be forgiven by faith and free to love and walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16.

If there is no Law then there is no knowledge of what sin is because sin is the transgression of breaking God's law *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. If you now have no knowledge of sin you have no need of a Saviour from sin. If you have no Saviour than you have no salvation because you are lost and still in your sins and the wages of sin is

The NEW COVENANANT promise to LOVE is to establish God's LAW in the heart of those who are born again to believe and follow God's WORD through LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. JESUS says LOVE is not separate from God's LAW but on LOVE to GOD and MAN hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in sin *JOHN 8:31-36. This who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27 and need to be born again to LOVE. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

God bless

Salvation is multitiered, ultimately salvation is from the second death. In the mean time a person can be a slave to sin but sin can be overcome and Jesus shows the way; it is not that man ceased to sin but rather sin is not in control; overcoming is continuous and is a way of life.

Love usage in the English language I so prolific that it is meaningless unless he meaning is specified elsewhere in the sentence or chapter. This is not the case in the Hebrew and Hebrew encoded Greek;

Strong
Hebrew
157 to have affection for
160 affection good or bad sense
1730 family allegiance, uncle
2836 delight, desire, cling to
7355 fondle, compassion, mercy
7474 female associate
5690 amative words, much love, very lovely, dote
5691 amorous

Greek
25 much social and moral regard
26 affection, benevolence, charity
2309 desire, disposed, impulse, please
5360 fraternal affection, brotherly affection
5361 fond of brethren
5362 affection for husband, affectionate wife
5363 fondness of mankind
5365 desire of money
5368 to be a friend

I believe "love" for many Christians is a jargon like "grace" which meaning has nothing to do with scripture or the English language.

Deuteronomy 6:5 (NKJV)
5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Deuteronomy 6:5
5 You shall have affection for the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Is this more meaningful or specific? It is strange my search engine refused to find this verse (Deut 6:5), it would seem someone does not want their laity to find this verse; I have had this problem of not finding verses before.

Matthew 22:37 (NKJV)
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

Matthew 22:37
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall have much social and moral regard for the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

Is this a nuance, Jews ridicule Christians over the use of "love"? Or does this add meaning.

John 15:10 (NKJV)
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

John 15:10
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My benevolence, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His benevolence.

Is this a better translation of John 15:10?

I would be interesting to find how we disagree regarding the covenants.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Salvation is multitiered, ultimately salvation is from the second death. In the mean time a person can be a slave to sin but sin can be overcome and Jesus shows the way; it is not that man ceased to sin but rather sin is not in control; overcoming is continuous and is a way of life.

Hi brother sparrow,

Thanks for your post. So are you saying you are in agreement of my post in post # 512 linked and the linked section on LOVE and LAW within that post? I am assuming you are but thought I would ask you to make sure.

For the time being while waiting for your feedback I will just comment on the section above in your last post. For me the section I see many people not considering is that the Christian has to grow in grace and faith in the knowledge of God's WORD to be a disciple of JESUS *JOHN 8:31-36. God's WORD does not teach that we are to continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin. Those doing so need to be born again and seek God's forgiveness. Please let me explain the concept of KNOWN sin and UNKNOWN sin and growing in grace as I see it from God's WORD.

GROWING IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD’S WORD

When we first come to Jesus. It is based on faith alone and also on all the knowledge that God has revealed to us at any given point of our conversion. After we come to Jesus by faith and recieve his peace and joy we are babes in Christ because we do not know much and at this time we are all held accountable to God for what we know and not what we do not know in the truth of his Word.

At this time we are to GROW in Christ to have a closer walk with him day by day. This is the provess of Sanctification and as some say is the work of a lifetime growing every day in and learning how to walk in faith in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD.

The Holy Spirit as we continue in God's WORD will help us to have a closer walk with Jesus as we learn of him through his WORD God expects us to change our lives and to live up to all the light (knowledge of his truth) he reveals to us through his Word.

2 PETER 3:17-18 [17]
[17], You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
[18], But grow in grace, and in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

2 PETER 1:1-8
[1], Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
[2], Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, AND OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST,
[3], According as his divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the KNOWLEDGE of him that has called us to glory and virtue:
[4], Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[5], And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue KNOWLEDGE;
[6], And to KNOWLEDGE temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[7], And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity [LOVE].
[8], For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord Jesus Christ.

now in times of IGNORANCE when we do not know any better as we are babes and children growing in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD, God does not hold us accountable to things we do not know and to things he has not revealed to us or has not taught us.

ACTS 17:30
[30], And the times of this ignorance God winked at [does not hold us accountable]; BUT NOW [WHEN A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH HAS COME] commands all men every where to repent.

When God reveals to us a KNOWLEDGE of the truth, then he expects us to change [REPENT] and to BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. At this time God has revealed to us a new KNOWLEDGE to help us to have a closer walk with him.

At EVERY POINT in the Christian life, as we grow in grace and in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD, we have a decision to make. Do I NOW BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD? Or do I not BELIEVE God's WORD and not change our lives?

If we choose NOT to BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD or simply BELIEVE but DO NOT FOLLOW God's WORD because we LOVE SIN more then having a closer walk with Jesus until we REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD we become "UNBELIEVERS" No unbeliever has part in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have fallen from Grace.

JAMES 4:17 [17] Therefore to him that KNOWS to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

If we reject God's WORD when Jesus is calling us to GROW in GRACE and in the KNOWLEDGE of his WORD it is the same as rejecting Jesus.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

It is only as we CONTINUE in God's WORD gainig a KNOWLEDGE to Follow Jesus that we continue to be his disciples.

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are you my disciples indeed [this means CONTINUE TO GROW in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD, BY BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's WORD]; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

NOTE: Being set free here is in the context of being set free from sin as shown in the following verses.

[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

If we fail to CONTINUE in his WORD BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's WORD then at that point we no longer are his Children. Many Christians will be lost come judgment day because when God revlealed more of his WORD to them to help them to have a closer walk with Jesus they choose their SINS over the WORD of God.

JOHN 3:19 [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men
loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
God's 4th commandments is not a Shadow law. It is one of the 10 Commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin. If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

This is how I see the Christian walk brother from God's WORD. If we have been born again by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD then we will not be practicing KNOWN SIN because we have been set free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 3:31. Growing in grace however, which is God's revelation of UNKNOWN sin in our lives as we continue in God's WORD includes continual repentance and spiritual growth to be more like Jesus which is the work of a life time (some call this process sanctification).

So simply put we are not to be living in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. In times of ignorance when we do not know any better and are still learning as Christians God winks at until he gives us a KNOWLEDGE of the truth as we continue in his Word. *ACTS 17:30; JAMES 4:17.

Is this how you also see it? We can talk about the covenants shortly once we finish in this section.

Thanks for your thoughts

God bless.

 

[sparow]

Hi brother sparrow,

Thanks for your post. So are you saying you are in agreement of my post in post # 512 linked and the linked section on LOVE and LAW within that post? I am assuming you are but thought I would ask you to make sure.

For the time being while waiting for your feedback I will just comment on the section above in your last post. For me the section I see many people not considering is that the Christian has to grow in grace and faith in the knowledge of God's WORD to be a disciple of JESUS *JOHN 8:31-36. God's WORD does not teach that we are to continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin. Those doing so need to be born again and seek God's forgiveness. Please let me explain the concept of KNOWN sin and UNKNOWN sin and growing in grace as I see it from God's WORD.

GROWING IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD’S WORD

When we first come to Jesus. It is based on faith alone and also on all the knowledge that God has revealed to us at any given point of our conversion. After we come to Jesus by faith and recieve his peace and joy we are babes in Christ because we do not know much and at this time we are all held accountable to God for what we know and not what we do not know in the truth of his Word.

At this time we are to GROW in Christ to have a closer walk with him day by day. This is the provess of Sanctification and as some say is the work of a lifetime growing every day in and learning how to walk in faith in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD.

The Holy Spirit as we continue in God's WORD will help us to have a closer walk with Jesus as we learn of him through his WORD God expects us to change our lives and to live up to all the light (knowledge of his truth) he reveals to us through his Word.

2 PETER 3:17-18 [17]
[17], You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
[18], But grow in grace, and in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

2 PETER 1:1-8
[1], Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
[2], Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, AND OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST,
[3], According as his divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the KNOWLEDGE of him that has called us to glory and virtue:
[4], Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[5], And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue KNOWLEDGE;
[6], And to KNOWLEDGE temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[7], And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity [LOVE].
[8], For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord Jesus Christ.

now in times of IGNORANCE when we do not know any better as we are babes and children growing in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD, God does not hold us accountable to things we do not know and to things he has not revealed to us or has not taught us.

ACTS 17:30
[30], And the times of this ignorance God winked at [does not hold us accountable]; BUT NOW [WHEN A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH HAS COME] commands all men every where to repent.

When God reveals to us a KNOWLEDGE of the truth, then he expects us to change [REPENT] and to BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. At this time God has revealed to us a new KNOWLEDGE to help us to have a closer walk with him.

At EVERY POINT in the Christian life, as we grow in grace and in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD, we have a decision to make. Do I NOW BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD? Or do I not BELIEVE God's WORD and not change our lives?

If we choose NOT to BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD or simply BELIEVE but DO NOT FOLLOW God's WORD because we LOVE SIN more then having a closer walk with Jesus until we REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD we become "UNBELIEVERS" No unbeliever has part in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have fallen from Grace.

JAMES 4:17 [17] Therefore to him that KNOWS to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

If we reject God's WORD when Jesus is calling us to GROW in GRACE and in the KNOWLEDGE of his WORD it is the same as rejecting Jesus.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

It is only as we CONTINUE in God's WORD gainig a KNOWLEDGE to Follow Jesus that we continue to be his disciples.

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are you my disciples indeed [this means CONTINUE TO GROW in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD, BY BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's WORD]; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

NOTE: Being set free here is in the context of being set free from sin as shown in the following verses.

[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

If we fail to CONTINUE in his WORD BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's WORD then at that point we no longer are his Children. Many Christians will be lost come judgment day because when God revlealed more of his WORD to them to help them to have a closer walk with Jesus they choose their SINS over the WORD of God.

JOHN 3:19 [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men
loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
God's 4th commandments is not a Shadow law. It is one of the 10 Commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin. If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

This is how I see the Christian walk brother from God's WORD. If we have been born again by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD then we will not be practicing KNOWN SIN because we have been set free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 3:31. Growing in grace however, which is God's revelation of UNKNOWN sin in our lives as we continue in God's WORD includes continual repentance and spiritual growth to be more like Jesus which is the work of a life time (some call this process sanctification).

So simply put we are not to be living in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. In times of ignorance when we do not know any better and are still learning as Christians God winks at until he gives us a KNOWLEDGE of the truth as we continue in his Word. *ACTS 17:30; JAMES 4:17.

Is this how you also see it? We can talk about the covenants shortly once we finish in this section.

Thanks for your thoughts

God bless.

Yes I agree with the scriptures; but there are a lot of ifs and buts; I cannot be sure my understandings are the same as yours. Words like love and grace bother me because they are intrinsically linked to false doctrine. "Growing in grace" is acceptable but grace can mean something not good. The Theological meaning: unmerited favour.. this I do not believe. So I believe Luther was a false prophet. This could be the beginning of a good debate.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes I agree with the scriptures; but there are a lot of ifs and buts; I cannot be sure my understandings are the same as yours. Words like love and grace bother me because they are intrinsically linked to false doctrine. "Growing in grace" is acceptable but grace can mean something not good. The Theological meaning: unmerited favour.. this I do not believe. So I believe Luther was a false prophet. This could be the beginning of a good debate.

Ok brother sparrow all good so we are on the same page in relation to LOVE and GOD'S LAW being one. My definitions of Love and growing in Grace and known and unknown sin follow the detailed scriptures outlined in the previous posts showing that LOVE is not separated from God's LAW. JESUS and PAUL show that LOVE is expressed through OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 Commandments) by faith in God's WORD to be born again to be free (from KNOWN sin) to walk in God's Spirit.

If we are in agreement we can leave these behind for now and perhaps revisit them again latter. Did you wish to discuss the covenants? This is an interesting study because if we do not know what the OLD COVENANT is we will not understand what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to.

I think this is where many run into trouble trusting in the teachings of men instead of studying God's WORD for themselves. You can go first if you like. I will share some scriptures with you latter if you like on how I see what made up the OLD COVENANT. Many only tell half the story leading them into confusion in the NEW COVENANT leading them to think God's 10 Commandments have been abolished. This is a false teaching.

What makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view?

God bless.

 

[sparow]

Ok brother sparrow all good so we are on the same page in relation to LOVE and GOD'S LAW being one. My definitions of Love and growing in Grace and known and unknown sin follow the detailed scriptures outlined in the previous posts showing that LOVE is not separated from God's LAW. JESUS and PAUL show that LOVE is expressed through OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 Commandments) by faith in God's WORD to be born again to be free (from KNOWN sin) to walk in God's Spirit.

If we are in agreement we can leave these behind for now and perhaps revisit them again latter. Did you wish to discuss the covenants? This is an interesting study because if we do not know what the OLD COVENANT is we will not understand what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to.

I think this is where many run into trouble trusting in the teachings of men instead of studying God's WORD for themselves. You can go first if you like. I will share some scriptures with you latter if you like on how I see what made up the OLD COVENANT. Many only tell half the story leading them into confusion in the NEW COVENANT leading them to think God's 10 Commandments have been abolished. This is a false teaching.

What makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view?

God bless.

In the beginning God knew the end, and He said, "I am going to build a house and it will be called the house of Israel, (the New Jerusalem)" The end is the house of Israel and it's God; everything in between Gen. and Rev. is the construction process. The old covenant is the intermediate stage, where all concepts are defined and established; the old testament introduces the kingdom of God and the Messiah. It is the world view that is important.

Judah was given 490 years to rebuild Jerusalem but prophesy made no provision for them doing it, it was left for Christ to do.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

In the beginning God knew the end, and He said, "I am going to build a house and it will be called the house of Israel, (the New Jerusalem)" The end is the house of Israel and it's God; everything in between Gen. and Rev. is the construction process. The old covenant is the intermediate stage, where all concepts are defined and established; the old testament introduces the kingdom of God and the Messiah. It is the world view that is important.

Judah was given 490 years to rebuild Jerusalem but prophesy made no provision for them doing it, it was left for Christ to do.

Thanks brother but what you have posted here does not ready say what made up the OLD COVENANT. Not to worry though as can talk about it as we continue more. Just on a side note have you considered the scriptures in DANIEL on the 490 years and how do you see it? This is an interesting study leading into the book of REVELATION and the MARK of the BEAST.

God bless.

 

[sparow]

Thanks brother but what you have posted here does not ready say what made up the OLD COVENANT. Not to worry though as can talk about it as we continue more. Just on a side note have you considered the scriptures in DANIEL on the 490 years and how do you see it? This is an interesting study leading into the book of REVELATION and the MARK of the BEAST.

God bless.

As I understand the words "Law" and "Covenant" are interchangeable in the OT. The covenant (blood covenant) can not be separate from the covenant of the promised land (the kingdom of God) nor separate from the blood covenant of circumcision; all of God's covenants accrue.

The term Old Covenant appears once in the Bible; 2Cor 3:14. Jesus never made a distinction between the covenants; He may have said, "This is the blood of the New covenant"; but what does new mean; Jesus said that the Law (Covenant) may not be changed, so new means something else. The way I compare the old and the new is: a man buys a new ford drives it up the road and crashes it into a tree; the ford is now old; he goes back and buys another new ford and parks it beside the old one; we might say they are different because one is wrecked and one isn't; or we may say they are of the same genus and are the same even though one is dead; or we could say they are of a different dispensation but are the same genus.

There are differences but these are different administration or different driver, even to the point of having the Law written on the mind and heart.

From memory, there are two parallel threads associated with the 490 years, one is to do with rebuilding Jerusalem or the Temple; I believe what was required here was not bricks and mortar, but rather the reuniting Israel into one house. And 490 years to make the way straight regarding the covenant.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi brother sparrow, nice to see you again. Some comments below for your consideration.

As I understand the words "Law" and "Covenant" are interchangeable in the OT.

Many people have this understanding and for many it is a false teaching. Not saying yours is at all so will ask some foloow up questions. How did you come up with this understanding can you clarify what your understanding is and what law are you referring to?

The covenant (blood covenant) can not be separate from the covenant of the promised land (the kingdom of God) nor separate from the blood covenant of circumcision; all of God's covenants accrue.

Yes I believe in MATTHEW 4:4 as well.

The term Old Covenant appears once in the Bible; 2Cor 3:14. Jesus never made a distinction between the covenants; He may have said, "This is the blood of the New covenant"; but what does new mean; Jesus said that the Law (Covenant) may not be changed, so new means something else. The way I compare the old and the new is: a man buys a new ford drives it up the road and crashes it into a tree; the ford is now old; he goes back and buys another new ford and parks it beside the old one; we might say they are different because one is wrecked and one isn't; or we may say they are of the same genus and are the same even though one is dead; or we could say they are of a different dispensation but are the same genus.

There are differences but these are different administration or different driver, even to the point of having the Law written on the mind and heart.

So your saying brother that the NEW COVENANT does not do away with the OLD but is different to it, is this your correct view? Can you clarify what you mean here?

From memory, there are two parallel threads associated with the 490 years, one is to do with rebuilding Jerusalem or the Temple; I believe what was required here was not bricks and mortar, but rather the reuniting Israel into one house. And 490 years to make the way straight regarding the covenant.

Happy to discuss some of the scriptures here latter if you have some time a little latter?
Hope you do not mind all the questions. I was hoping to make sure I do not misunderstand what your view is before sharing some of the scriptures. Thanks for your thoughts brother.

God bless.