ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

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Lost4words

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Revelation 1
1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near.

Not 1,000s of years away i believe.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So, who will be your antichrist then?

Hello brother, the Antichrist was not the focus of this OP. However we may touch on it latter if we get some time as it is a full study in itself but if you want to go to the link in the OP there is a section on it there if you cannot wait.
 
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Lost4words

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Hello brother, the Antichrist was not the focus of this OP. However we may touch on it latter if we get some time as it is a full study in itself but if you want to go to the link in the OP there is a section on it there if you cannot wait.

I know who the sda 'think' will be the antichrist.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Continuing with the OP. We have seen that the MARK OF THE BEAST comes from both the UNFAITHFUL WOMAN called BABYLON which represents an UNFAITHFUL CHURCH (not the people in the Church) and the BEAST that enforces it which the HARLOT WOMAN BABYLON sits. *REVELATION 13. This section is a scripture word study on MARK, SEAL AND SIGN before we look at what the MARK OF THE BEAST is. The MARK OF THE BEAST is over worship and is connected to the BEASTS IMAGE of REVELATION 13.

Q9 WHAT ARE THE SYMBOLS AND MEANING OF MARK, SIGN AND SEAL?

JESUS when quoting the two great commentments of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man from Matthew 22:26-40 is quoting from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures found in DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18 and finishes by saying v40 "ON THESE TWO COMMENTMENTS OF LOVE to GOD and LOVE to MAN HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

If we go bact to DEUTERONOMY 6:5-8 we find somthing interesting in v8..

DEUTERONOMY 6:5-8
5, And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6, And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7, And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shall talk of them when thou sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when thou rises up. 8, And you shall bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as front lets between thine eyes.

NOTE: v8 has an interesting parallel with REVELATION 13:16:17 and

REVELATION 14:9-10 [9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb

Looking at the HEBREW word for sign in DEUTERONOMY 6:8 actually means MARK making it similar to the scriptures on the MARK OF THE BEAST in REVELATIONS 13 and 14 which are also received in the hand and forehead.

The Hebrew word for “sign” is Strong's H226 אות'ôth; oth; which also means Mark. The first four commandments of the 10 commandments represent our Love duty to God (Exodus 20:1-11) and how we worship him. Did you notice where love and obedience to God is a sign or mark of worship through love to God which is bound to the hand and between the frontlets of our eyes?

Let's look at the Hebrew words "frontlets" (H2903) and "between thine eyes" (H5869)"frontlets" (H2903) טופפה; ṭôphâphâh; to-faw-faw' means; to bind ; in the forehead "between thine eyes" (H5869) עין; ‛ayin; ah'-yin; means (many meanings but some mean) to think about, favour, to see, sight, knowledge

So verse 8 is talking about summing up the first 4 commandments of the 10 which is our love and duty of worship to God as being the "Mark of God" which is placed where? In the forehead and in the hand..... The same scriptures in

Deuteronomy 6 can be read as; Love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and with all thy soul and with all thy might (seen as the first four commandment to God (Exodus 20:1-11) 8, And you shall bind them for a “Mark” upon thine hand, and forehead. This is the Mark of God. God’s Mark is Love with the fruit of obedience. To love him with all the heart and have no other God’s before him, love will not make idols of anything on earth and serve them, love will not use God’s name in vain and love will remember God’s Sabbath day to keep it Holy. These are the Mark of Sign of the believers of those who follow God.

Now let’s compare this with …. (SIGN= MARK=SEAL mean the same)

EZEKIEL 20:11-12
[11], And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12, Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a SIGN <H226; same word for “MARK”> between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

So in our duty to Love God as demonstrated in Deuteronomy 6:5-8 and demonstrated through obedience to the first four commandments (Exodus 20:1-11), God’s Mark is bound to his people on their hand and forehead showing that His people believe and worship the only true God of creation of which the 7th Day Sabbath is also a sign or “Mark”. We should be clear here that the only commandments from God’s Law that God describes as being his SIGN or “MARK” is in our duty of worship and love to the creator.This links back to REVELATIONS 14:7-12 where we read the MARK OF THE BEAST IS LINKED TO WORSHIP.

God’s people marked or sealed for protection…

EZEKIEL 9:1-11
[1] He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
[2] And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
[3] And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
[4] And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
[5] And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
[6] Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
[7] And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
[8] And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
[9] Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.
[10] And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
[11] And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

Now remember the Beast of Revelations also has a mark that we are warned against receiving? (Revelation 13:16; 14:8:11). This is called the “MARK OF THE BEAST”. Anyone who receives this mark is in danger of receiving the judgements of God. We are warned not to receive this mark because it will affect our salvation and standing with God.

God’s people receive God’s mark of protection in the last days…

REVELATION 7:4-10
4, And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5, Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6, Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7, Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8, Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9, After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10, And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

The SEAL= GOD'S MARK

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew & Thayer Greek Definitions - G4972
Σφραγίζω; sphragizō Thayer Definition:
1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
1a) for security: from Satan
1b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
1c) in order to mark a person or a thing
1c1) to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
1c2) angels are said to be sealed by God
1d) in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
1d1) to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
1d1a) of a written document
1d1b) to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4972
Σφραγίζω; sphragizō; sfrag-id'-zo From G4973; to stamp with a signet or private mark for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.

Now lets tie the above into the GREEK Word used in MARK OF THE BEAST from REVELATION 13:16 and 14:11…

REVELATION 13:16 And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

Now let’s add the GREEK word used for “MARK” *REVELATION 14:11; 13: χάραγμα charagma From the same as G5482; a scratch or etching, that is, stamp as a badge of servitude, or sculptured figure (statue): - graven, mark.

So there is God's Mark which is a SIGN of Love and obedience and worship to God and a BEASTS MARK as a sign of servitude to the beast that we are warned against receiving or we will receive God's Judgements (Revelations 14:8-11). This warning not to receive the Beasts Mark is proceeded with the warning that Babylon the great, also identified as the great harlot that sits on the beast, is fallen with a call for God's People to come out of her (Revelations 14:8). The call to come out of Babylon is then once again repeated in Revelation 18:1-10 but this time Babylon is described in more detail in Revelations 17:1-7; 18:1-10

So it is important to understand who Babylon is because it has a connection to the beast and its Mark that we are warned against receiving (Revelations 14:8-11; 17:1-18) and God is calling his people out before it receives his judgements.

There is actually a lot to take in here but letting the bible interpret itself let’s see what God’s Word says the following symbols represent?

..............

SOME SYMBOLS DEFINED IN GOD'S WORD SO FAR.

*WOMAN PURE = God's people faithful (Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27)

*WOMAN harlot
= God's people unfaithful to God fornicator, adulteress, unfaithful or false religion (Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9; Ezekiel 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hosea 2:5; 3:1; Revelations 14:4)

*MOTHER OF HARLOTS
= Gives birth to unfaithful or false religion offspring and children just like the Mother

*BEAST
= Kingdom; Nations or political power (Daniel 7:17; 23; Proverbs 28:15)

*HORN OF A BEAST
= A king or ruler that arise out of the Kingdom; Nations or political power (Daniel 7:24; 8:5; 21-22; Zechariah 1:18-19; Revelations 17:12)

*SCARLET COLOR
= sin (Isaiah 1:18)

*HAND
= To act out or to do action (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Acts 4:28 etc)

*FOREHAND
= To believe or think (Ezekiel 3:8-9; Jeremiah 3:3 see also word meanings)

*MARK/SEAL/SIGN = is BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD or NOT BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's WORD (Revelation 14:7-12; 7:4-10
Deuteronomy 6:8; Ezekiel 20:11-12; Ezekiel 9:1-11)

..............

Let's put it all together.....

Babylon the Great harlot = a world-wide unfaithful Church that is unfaithful to God or does not follow God’s Word. It is a mother of harlots meaning other unfaithful Churches have come out of this mother of Churches. Let’s make something clear before we continue. God has his people in every Church, even the unfaithful fallen Churches as seen in Revelations 18:4. He is calling them to come out of these Churches because they are not teaching people to follow God’s Word. Jesus also says; Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd (John 10:16). Because the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24)

God's Mark is a mark of love and worship to God seen as the fruit of obedience to Gods Law *REVELATION 14:12. It is applied to the hand and the forehead representing believing and doing. It is sin that is disobedience to God’s Word and it is sin and nothing more that all to receive God’s judgements.

The beast which represents a nation or kingdom will have power to make laws under punishment of death to force all to break God’s Law. This is the ONLY time anyone can receive the MARK OF THE BEAST when it is forced upon mankind under law.

We receive it in the hand by following or doing the beast’s law or we receive it in the forehead by believing and following this law over the Word of God or breaking God’s Law (Revelation 13:15-16). Everyone has the choice to choose for themselves whether they receive this mark or not and those that do follow the beast, receive the judgements of God (Revelation 14:9-11).

The beast (KINGDOM) is seen being ridden by a harlot Woman (unfaithful, mother of Christian Churches) also called Babylon that God has some of his people in who are warned to come out of unless of these organisations unless they receive the plague of God (Revelations 18:4).

All through time from Genesis to Revelations God's judgements have only ever been given to mankind because of sin. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom so shall it be at the coming of the son of man. Sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death which is the penalty of sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). Therefore just as the Mark of God in the hand and forehead represents love and worship to God seen as the fruit of obedience to Gods Law (10 commandments), the Mark of the beast will be over forced disobedience to God's Law of Love. The Mark of the beast does not affect anyone until it is forced upon mankind by the beast (Revelations 13:15-18). However, if we are living in sin now we are not following God or know him and need to repent and seek him for forgiveness through faith in His Word.

After the warning about receiving the mark of the beast is proclaimed a description of God’s people is proclaimed

REVELATION 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Further descriptions of God’s people are also described throughout the book of Revelations….

REVELATION 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

REVELATION 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

God’s people keep all of God’s commandments through faith in his promises to save them from their sins. He gives them his Spirit so that they can follow him in love and obedience. God’s Word say that if we break one of God’s commandments we are guilty before God of breaking all of His Law (James 2:8-12).

This includes the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is God's 4th Commandment that God has commanded his people to follow which is one of the 10 (Exodus 20:8-11)

Just as God’s Mark or sign to His people is demonstrated through worship and love to him through the first four commandments. The Mark of the Beast will be loyalty to the beast through breaking God’s Law which is sin against God. Those that follow the Beast do not follow God and will be in danger of receiving God’s judgements.

Those that receive the Mark of the Beast are those that through disobedience and living in sin do not know God and refuse his love and invitation of Grace and salvation… Who will you choose?

God’s sheep hear his voice…
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I know who the sda 'think' will be the antichrist.

We should only point people to God's WORD brother because that is where we find JESUS. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed in the light of God's WORD.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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Do you at least agree with what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 about the resurrection and then the rapture happening at the coming of the Lord?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



JLB
Yes , I believe the dead in Christ since Pentacost will resurrect before present believers are removed to meet the Lord in the air/clouds which is not to be confused with the Second Coming.
This event deals primarily with the Church.

Keep in mind there are different stages regarding the resurrection of the just, but only one resurrection for the unjust at one time after the Millenial reign of Christ and at The Great White Throne Judgment.
Unfortunately those individuals names will not be found written in The Book of Life.

This should definitely create the urgency to share, teach, preach , but more importantly live the gospel.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes, the Church WILL be here during the Tribulation.

Those waiting for pre-trib rapture will be among the first to worship Antichrist.
I understand that there is some conflicts among believers as to when the rapture will take place, and if the church will go through the tribulation...

I have no trouble with that.

What I do take issue with is when someone says that I, being a pre trib believer, will be of the first to take the mark..

Now, how on earth, do you believe that if I am so aware of the fact that there is a mark..and that those that take it cannot have salvation, and I expect to be raptured before it's implementation,... that I will be ignorant enough to take the mark?

There is absolutely no connection between the two...

I believe that I will be taken out of this time... However, if I am not, I'm certainly not going to take a mark that is issued so that I can buy or sell..... I mean seriously.... Anyone that knows enough about end times that they can argue for or against the pre, mid or post trib views.... is not going to bow to the beast....

This is just plain faulty logic and actually insult.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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So you don’t believe Abraham or Noah or Job or folks like that who walked in the righteousness of faith with the Lord, will be resurrected with the saints?


How did you arrive at that conclusion?



JLB
I never stated that.

We find in Matthew 27:51-53 the following. (KJV)

51: And behold , the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom ; and the earth did quake , and the rocks rent ;
52: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53: And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city , and appeared unto many.

Now in verse 52 it states many (not all) arose (resurrected). Who? The saints (many , BUT not ALL)
* Now regarding a collective resurrection of the saints (many label these as the Jerusalem saints) this appears to be the first of the "first resurrection " which happens in stages.

What we find in 1st. Thessalonians 4:16 (the dead in Christ) appears to be the saints who have died from the day of Pentacost till present.
They and present believers (alive) from the day of Pentacost (dead in Christ first ) will receive glorified bodies (Amen!) at that time .
This is BEFORE The Day of the Lord executes His divine judgment towards a world full of depravity at its peak and pure decadence. (Kinda like now).

This judgment is towards a lost world that has rejected Him. Why would the Groom (Christ) see His Bride (The Church ; saved believers of Jesus the Christ ) experience His wrath which is directed towards the rejecting lost ?
He wouldn't ! Praise Jesus Christ !


Now to get to the heart of the question you asked regarding the rest of the OT saints.

We have the resurrection of the tribulation saints (Rev. 20:4) at The Second Coming of Christ where he literally sets foot on The Mount of Olives .
It isn't quite clear , but would only make sense that the remaining OT saints would be resurrected at this time.
Also to keep in mind , there must be a resurrection of the saints who die during the Millineal reign.
All who enter the eternal Kingdom must have a glorified body.

I am being concise , but I hope this helps you understand my thoughts regarding the question you presented.

Peace in our Saviours name.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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I understand that there is some conflicts among believers as to when the rapture will take place, and if the church will go through the tribulation...

I have no trouble with that.

What I do take issue with is when someone says that I, being a pre trib believer, will be of the first to take the mark..

Now, how on earth, do you believe that if I am so aware of the fact that there is a mark..and that those that take it cannot have salvation, and I expect to be raptured before it's implementation,... that I will be ignorant enough to take the mark?

There is absolutely no connection between the two...

I believe that I will be taken out of this time... However, if I am not, I'm certainly not going to take a mark that is issued so that I can buy or sell..... I mean seriously.... Anyone that knows enough about end times that they can argue for or against the pre, mid or post trib views.... is not going to bow to the beast....

This is just plain faulty logic and actually insult.
Amen brother!
It is IMPOSSIBLE for a saved child of God to receive the mark of the beast , even if one was deceived to even attempt.
Sealed by the BLOOD of the Crucified One!
And the only ones who could and would be deceived to take it (the mark) regarding believers , would be those who accept Christ as Saviour during the Great Tribulation. Regardless they wouldn't be able to receive it.
All glory be to God now and forever!
Amen.
 
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Bladerunner

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In using the interpretations that are not my own, but the Spirit that has led many to produce many varied editions of scriptures to further advance the gospel, some translations propose that Jesus said he would be with us until the end of this AGE. Like as in ERA in reference to the kingdom which now exists on earth. We are in this era, this age of which scriptures refers.
This GREAT TRIBULATION....is it not the tribulation of your life???? What other great tribulation is there except your own life? The churches in Revelation, are they not all the body of Christ?? And being so, as the body is ONE, simplified as the individual, are they not reflections of the individual in his spiritual walk? How we fall away and come back to the Lord time and time again but in different fashions according to the sins which beset us?
In focusing on God and his word, it is evident that the beast, this antichrist, already is in the world as scriptures state. The struggles we face are against not flesh and blood, but against wickedness in high places... A world that promotes abortion, gun carrying, violence, rap, money, and lies to you about it saying that your vote counts? When they tell you what to think and make you conform to what they want. Then on Sunday you go to church and the preacher reads the word and it says of Christ the exact opposite of how the world is currently working and everyone says "amen". The world and Christ are different ends of the spectrum. Then they leave and out the other ear it goes and they go back to being conformists and idolizers, liars, haters, laden with sin and seeking after pleasure rather than God. Those who love darkness rather than light. So you see who the world represents.

Because for all "holy interpretation", people seem to always add an "S" to the title of said book "Revelation" , when there never has been one.
Imagine you are John.
Looking up at a night sky, searching for God out of the darkest prison you have been in of your life, whether physically, spiritually, mentally. Here we find John drawing near to God, and God draws near to him. Reveals himself to him. Shows him a picture of heaven and the world to come. What would John do with such information? If there was no tribulation he were to go through personally, why would God choose John??? Not to tell you 2000 years later about how to call out evil doers. But to identify the things that infiltrate your heart. Because the Word if anything is God calling out to us. And speaks directly to it. It calls you out. Every word of God was written because God spoke through someone's heart. It is personal. David and Psalm 151 about Bath-sheba and his loss of joy, his guilt...was personal. So it was with John and Revelation. Every church in Revelation, John had belonged to at one point or another. Every church in Revelation, every Christian I know (myself included), have belonged or will belong to. It's called spiritual growth.

If you think you get a free pass somehow on some big nasties in the Bible because you got Jesus on your side, you got another thing coming. Having Jesus means he will go through it with you. Not having Jesus means you will go through it alone. I have no idea how some people are so afraid of their own faith... You do realize that the Bible says some will be beheaded for being Christians? And that it will have a reward for it? Yet somehow this world has told you and beat it into your head that to lose your life for Christ is bad.
When the shooters in churches cause Christians to carry guns into church for defense.....Like what exactly do we preach around here? Do we preach shoot the criminal? Or do we preach what the Bible says and God has our back, regardless if we lose this physical life or not? See the World is twisting your mind. Most lack conviction to see their faith through. Hence spiritual growth. Most Christians never fully mature in this respect.

I will not jump of this with all four feet (lol) but will say, You need to read Rev from a literal, historical and grammatical hermeneutics. If you did you would see we are not even to the beginning of Daniel's 70th week nor have we passed it by according to the scripture in Rev. 6:8, the 4th Horseman: It tells us that 1/4 of the earth's population will die........That would be 1.4 Billion People....I don't recall the newspapers telling us about 1.4 billion people suddenly dying???? Have you seen that yet? Then in the Trumpet Judgements, another 1/3 of the population will die. Another 1.5 Billion people (give or take a few) and then in the Bowls, it is untold to us how many will die but the Sea will certainly all be dead. This alone will starve many people whose dinner plate relies on the Sea.

Make no mistake, we are not living in the Millennium. Revelation is real and it will happen. Are you ready?

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1stcenturylady

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What do you make of this? (no secret rapture?) Isn't that SDA doctrine?

Matthew 24:40-42
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

Luke 17:33-35
Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

"Taken" is not like in the Left Behind series. So the question remains, who is "taken." So look at the context of surrounding verses of the Bible, not fiction, and look for clues.


Matthew 24:39
and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Luke 17:27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Matthew 22:13
Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
 
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1stcenturylady

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Is this "spirit pool" doctrine? (or whatever it is called)
Where God had all the spirits, or as part of his Spirit then released them into the world that they would return to his spirit in the end?

I guess not, as I'm not familiar with what you are describing. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. We know our body is in the ground because we put them there, so what could go to the Father, but our spirit. Paul also said that when Jesus returns He will bring with Him the dead Christians. Not to be confused with the theory that Jesus returns with the live Christians from some secret rapture. There is no mention of the living being in heaven waiting for the second coming. Only the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
 
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1stcenturylady

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That's not fair treatment.
It's not as if Rapture doctrine is unheard of.
Why should this poster need to present a case to you that is already common knowledge?

Common true knowledge, or common false knowledge. What does the Bible actually say? That is the test for truth.
 
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Saint Steven

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Common true knowledge, or common false knowledge. What does the Bible actually say? That is the test for truth.
It's not a black and white issue. There is room for differing views. Making it a B+W issue is divisive.
 
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Saint Steven

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I guess not, as I'm not familiar with what you are describing. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. We know our body is in the ground because we put them there, so what could go to the Father, but our spirit. Paul also said that when Jesus returns He will bring with Him the dead Christians. Not to be confused with the theory that Jesus returns with the live Christians from some secret rapture. There is no mention of the living being in heaven waiting for the second coming. Only the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
There it is. The term "secret rapture" is SDA all the way.
 
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1stcenturylady

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--Staff Edit---

The SDA church believes in the Trinity. The Second Coming of Christ is AFTER the Great Tribulation, not before. That's just the way it is in scripture, not fiction or movies.
 
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1stcenturylady

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There it is. The term "secret rapture" is SDA all the way.

I'm not SDA. The first place I heard "secret rapture" is on the forums. And not by an Adventist. It's a common phrase for the pre-trib. rapture, even used by those who promote it. But when Jesus comes "every eye shall see Him." It won't be secret, only unexpected by unbelievers who will be caught unaware as a thief in the night, and who will be "taken" and thrown into the lake of fire.
 
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JLB777

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Yes , I believe the dead in Christ since Pentacost will resurrect before present believers are removed to meet the Lord in the air/clouds which is not to be confused with the Second Coming.
This event deals primarily with the Church.


It plain says the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

Do you agree?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


It also says at the coming of Lord, which is the Day of the Lord the wicked are destroyed.


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:17-5:3


These three things are clearly taught by Paul, to the Church about His coming:


  1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ
  2. The Rapture
  3. The destruction of the wicked




JLB
 
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JLB777

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Now in verse 52 it states many (not all) arose (resurrected). Who? The saints (many , BUT not ALL)
* Now regarding a collective resurrection of the saints (many label these as the Jerusalem saints) this appears to be the first of the "first resurrection " which happens in stages.


These were the saints that Jesus took to heaven with him.

These were contained in paradise in the heart of the earth, called Abraham’s Bosom.


The resurrection of the dead is when we all receive our glorified bodies like Jesus.



JLB
 
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