Are you antitheists

[MehGuy]

After reading the rest of the posts, I'd say I agree with the majority of what Paradox said....except she said it more tactfully than I probably would've lol.

If you want to say anything less tactful to me, go ahead. Lol.

 

[MehGuy]

Theism tends to promote false beliefs, some of which are harmful. Less false harmful beliefs is good.

Which tends to happen with every idealogical group, secular or not. I don't see why we need to enter the mindset that the whole thing should just be burned down when it come to theism.

Less ideologies which add harmful beliefs is good.

Once you take away theism you'll have even more ideologies spring up to fill the void to worry about, lol. Again what is ultimately going to change for the better?

You'll never have a human population without ideology.

I agree not all religion is the same. But most religious people aren't liberal deists whose religion wont change their ethics negatively (in my opinion).

What are these perfect secular ethic systems one can abide too? One that even a theist cannot adopt..

Again how is a non-theist population better than a theist one?

I think religion adds bad morals. The good morals can be followed without religion. So the religion does harm. in my opinion.

And bad morals can be followed without religion too. Again you're judging theists unrealistically.

So why not be against it?

Because thus far you haven't shown me how theists are anymore rancid than non-theists. I see no reason to condemn the whole thing.

I agree, and I oppose those ideologies. I'm anti-traditionalism and stupid masculinity, as well as religion.

Worried that you didn't also say "stupid femininity". Then again the problem probably fits well with my overall point in this thread.. lol.

 

[Allandavid]

I am both an atheist and anti-theist. My view is that god-belief causes more harm than it does good, hence my opposition to it.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

No, not antitheist at all. I quite love a lot of various culture's mythologies.

 

[jardiniere]

I'm a pretty literal person- a- means "without", anti- means "against", and I'm not against theists or theism. Some religious beliefs are harmful, some non-religious beliefs are harmful, I think parsing harmful vs. non-harmful beliefs by religion misses the point.

 

[Paradoxum]

Which tends to happen with every idealogical group, secular or not. I don't see why we need to enter the mindset that the whole thing should just be burned down when it come to theism.

I'd be against secular ideologies which harm too.

Once you take away theism you'll have even more ideologies spring up to fill the void to worry about, lol. Again what is ultimately going to change for the better?

You'll never have a human population without ideology.

All ideology isn't the same. If one ideology is lost, it can be replaced by a better one, or by centrism and moderatism.

What are these perfect secular ethic systems one can abide too? One that even a theist cannot adopt..

Again how is a non-theist population better than a theist one?

I didn't say anything about 'perfect', but liberal humanism is a good way to go. Of course liberal religion can believe the same things.

And bad morals can be followed without religion too. Again you're judging theists unrealistically.

I agree with the first sentence. Secular and religious ideologies can promote immoral ideas. I'm against all of them.

Because thus far you haven't shown me how theists are anymore rancid than non-theists. I see no reason to condemn the whole thing.

I wonder what percent of religious people think being gay is wrong, and what percent of non-religious people think that. The difference is the additional wrong, in my opinion (as an example).

Worried that you didn't also say "stupid femininity". Then again the problem probably fits well with my overall point in this thread.. lol.

Sure, stupid feminism too.

Fair enough if you don't agree with me. It's not something I should push you on too much. It's not like I hate religion.

 

[MehGuy]

I'd be against secular ideologies which harm too.

Ah, but will you extend the same cut throat attitude you seem to display with theistic ideologies? If something is a little harmful the whole thing should be discarded?

Not sure how productive that will be at the end of the day.

All ideology isn't the same. If one ideology is lost, it can be replaced by a better one, or by centrism and moderatism.

Why wouldn't this also apply to ideologies based in theism? Religious people adapt and change too.

I didn't say anything about 'perfect', but liberal humanism is a good way to go. Of course liberal religion can believe the same things.

I'm not sure how else to view it when you tell me that theism should be done away with because it contains negative elements. It seems like you demand perfection from theism or at least pretty well near it.

I agree with the first sentence. Secular and religious ideologies can promote immoral ideas. I'm against all of them.

Are you against the concept of ideology in general? Honestly I think some group think is ultimately necessary to expand and mature ideas, and also how to properly navigate and propagate ideas that will make sense and be adapted in the human mind.

Strict adherence to ideologies is bad, but most people are not wired that way. Even the religious ones. They pick and choose what they want. While many modern religions may have more strict guidelines that doesn't mean theism itself demands it by default.

I wonder what percent of religious people think being gay is wrong, and what percent of non-religious people think that. The difference is the additional wrong, in my opinion (as an example).

Yet morality and ethics encompasses much more than mere homophobia. I see no reason why it carries any extra weight, despite it being currently trendy to care about in liberal circles.

Fair enough if you don't agree with me. It's not something I should push you on too much. It's not like I hate religion.

There are many things regarding religion that I abhor, yet in my mind to call myself an "anti-theist" is way too reactionary and unreasonable. Theism like most things can be expressed in good and negative ways, there is no reason to be harsher towards theism than we are to anything else.

 

[quatona]

There are quite a few actions that I don´t like - no matter whether a theist or a non-theist performs them.

 

[Barry Desborough]

It has been suggested that atheist is synonymous with antitheist.

I'd like to know how many antitheists are here.

I'm an atheist, but not an antitheist. However, I am implacably opposed to creationism. I don't think any good can come from false teaching.

 

[Paradoxum]

There are many things regarding religion that I abhor, yet in my mind to call myself an "anti-theist" is way too reactionary and unreasonable. Theism like most things can be expressed in good and negative ways, there is no reason to be harsher towards theism than we are to anything else.

Sorry to ignore everything else but this seems to be the point. I don't oppose religion more than other things I disagree with.

But not many other immoral are institutionalised in tradition.

 

[DogmaHunter]

It has been suggested that atheist is synonymous with antitheist.

I'd like to know how many antitheists are here.

I wouldn't call myself an "anti-theists". Perhaps I'ld go for the word "anti-theisM".
But anti-theisT sounds like I am against people or groups of people.

Not at all.

I might be against certain ideas or concepts.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'm talking more overall character. From my experience it's quite true.

Most people also massively pick and choose when it comes to what they will follow and what they won't follow in religion. Most of the time the rotten apples will be rotten apples regardless.

The infamous quote of which I forgot who originally uttered it, comes to mind here:
"Good people will do good things.
Bad people will do bad things.
For good people to do bad things, one requires religion".

 

[Tinker Grey]

The infamous quote of which I forgot who originally uttered it, comes to mind here:
"Good people will do good things.
Bad people will do bad things.
For good people to do bad things, one requires religion".

Steven Weinberg

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

 

[MehGuy]

The infamous quote of which I forgot who originally uttered it, comes to mind here:
"Good people will do good things.
Bad people will do bad things.
For good people to do bad things, one requires religion".

I don't see why it necessarily has to require religion.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I don't see why it necessarily has to require religion.

You'll note that in my post where I quoted the originator, "require" wasn't part of it.

 

[MehGuy]

You'll note that in my post where I quoted the originator, "require" wasn't part of it.

The original quote sounds a little better.. although I could see how people might take it the wrong way.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The original quote sounds a little better.. although I could see how people might take it the wrong way.

Sure. When someone is trying to be epigrammatic, it is likely there will be holes.

It fills in a little if we replace the word religion with ideology.

 

[DogmaHunter]

It fills in a little if we replace the word religion with ideology.

This. I was just about to reply that and saw you beat me to it.
Indeed, "ideology", or perhaps even "dogmatic ideology" is a much better fit.

 

[variant]

As an atheist I think all religions are false religions. So my approach is similar to the way to a believer approaches all the religions they don't believe in.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If you want to say anything less tactful to me, go ahead. Lol.

I wasn't going to answer this originally, but after reading your later posts, I figured "why not?"

Reality exists. Facts exist. Truth exists.

If one wants to make good choices, good decisions, whatever kind of decisions we're talking about...and regardless of what "good" means to a person...one has to access reality, facts, truth and be able to understand it/think about it correctly. By correctly, I mean the most accurate understanding of reality they can possibly achieve.

So whether we're talking about a choice like, "which college program will most likely lead me to a successful/fulfilling career?"....or "is this person I'm dating being honest with me?"....or "what should I do about this lump on my skin?"...all of these things require us to access a particular set of facts...and understand them correctly if we are to make "good" choices for ourselves.

Pretty easy to follow my thinking so far? Nothing too controversial in the statements above, right? Well...

Imagine now that we are viewing reality through a lens that distorts all the facts. Imagine if we were given a false method for understanding reality that offered easy false answers to difficult questions that we accepted for all kinds of stupid reasons. Maybe it simplifies the process for us...telling us what and how to do things without any real concern for reality. Maybe it appeals to us emotionally, offering comforting lies to dull the difficulty of harsh truths. Regardless of the ways it distorts reality, the end result is the same...it impairs our ability to make good choices. While this may not sound too bad for one person....if we imagine all of humanity going around with this distorted view of reality, the results are disastrous.

Maybe instead of heavily analyzing which college program to major in...we decide that we'll just pray for god to imbue us with a sense of direction. Maybe instead of figuring out how to talk with the person we're dating so we can understand if they're being honest, we pray for god to "change" them into the person we want them to be...or we talk with our priest who has no idea what is going on in the relationship and trust implicitly in his answers. Maybe instead of going to doctors until they figure out what the lump is...we just pray to god that it isn't cancer and hope that he removes it.

Religion, in my opinion, is a horrible distortion of reality that damages all who follow it.