Are you allowed to say it?

[Alithis]

the evidence you speak of is based upon your perception of the Holy Spirit .you have said " the word (you made it sound that you meant the written word-did you mean that?) is the Spirit .

clarify this before we go discuss anything

 

[Alithis]

and here since you have a bee in your bonnet about it ...

-from luke ch 18 .. the particular text i was referring to in reply to a post by some one else ..not you ( unless you have dual identities )

"18 A certain ruler(singular individual) asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”"

...so nothing untoward there - It is indeed a singular individual he is speaking to and this was the verse i was referring to ...you chose to take it out of context because you do that with every post which disagrees with the book you base this teaching on .

if you twist a single word i post i will simply ignore you by posting the above post. I give you my word on that

 

[candle glow]

I'm getting from you (and the teachings of Jesus) that motivations are what is important. At what point do you draw the line at "working for food"? It seems pretty hard to get away from. For example, is cooking supper "working for food"? What about shovelling food into your mouth or walking to the store?

Yeah, motivations are paramount. It's not wrong to work, but Jesus was trying to get us away from working for any motivation other than to work for love.

I think any of those examples you listed COULD become wrong, if the motivation becomes wrong. In most cases, people work for money, so money has become the most common expression of a bad motivation, but I think that's why Jesus said "mammon", because mammon includes money and the things money can buy.

If you would only cook dinner (or grow crops or whatever) because you expected some kind of payment for it, then the motivation starts to conflict with what Jesus taught.

Money is a self regulating system that puts a value on people's time and a value on other goods and services.

Money only has as much value as people believe it has. We could get just as much done in the world without money, if people worked for a different motivation (like helping one another).

The problem which usually comes up is, what happens when people cheat or take advantage of our willingness to work for free? What happens if we help others, but then no one helps us in our need? They become afraid of all the "what if's" and as a result they continue to be a witness to the world that forcing people to pay us for our help is the only way to survive.

 

[candle glow]

It is indeed a singular individual he is speaking to and this was the verse i was referring to ...you chose to take it out of context because you do that with every post which disagrees with the book you base this teaching on .

Michael, you really don't like evidence, do you? In my first response to the lie you posted about Jesus only teaching forsaking all to a singular individual, I posted several examples of him teaching it to other people as a general principle of the kingdom of Heaven. (see posts #53-58 for the full exchange)

You ignored the evidence then and you are ignoring it now. One of those examples even comes from the same place you are referencing.

LK 18:28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.

I considered that you just had a misunderstanding, or maybe you just didn't know about the evidence. But after all your arguing and denials, even after I posted the evidence, it's clear that there was no misunderstanding in your comments.

Please don't tell any more lies about what Jesus didn't teach.

 

[Wesley1982]

I prefer the term "MAY God bless you" (since the other way seems to imply I can tell God what to do ) but If it's against any rules where I work (which is a State run mental hospital) it has never been addressed.

Oh, that's what it is! Nevermind.

 

[Spiritlight]

No matter what you do someone will whinge about it for some reason. Do what you want OP but I would be careful with overdoing evangelism on work time because your boss might feel he is paying you while you are talking instead of working (depending on your job description that is). God bless you is a nice thing to say anyway.

 

[candle glow]

Do what you want OP but I would be careful with overdoing evangelism on work time because your boss might feel he is paying you while you are talking instead of working (depending on your job description that is).

Hey spiritlight. My thoughts exactly. I doubt you've read through the entire thread, but I've said much the same thing you've said here.

This has led me to the conclusion that trying to do evangelism "at work" or "on the job" at all just isn't worth it and not particularly consistent with what Jesus taught.

In other words, if we have to "be careful with overdoing evangelism" because our employer might be offended by it, then we're probably working for the wrong employer.

Jesus said much the same when he said that we cannot work for two masters without cheating on one or the other. He said that God is one master and mammon (money and the things money can buy) is the other master.

God bless you is a nice thing to say anyway.

I agree.

 

[Spiritlight]

Hey spiritlight. My thoughts exactly. I doubt you've read through the entire thread, but I've said much the same thing you've said here.

This has led me to the conclusion that trying to do evangelism "at work" or "on the job" at all just isn't worth it and not particularly consistent with what Jesus taught.

In other words, if we have to "be careful with overdoing evangelism" because our employer might be offended by it, then we're probably working for the wrong employer.

I agree.

There is times to talk to people and times not to.

Ecclesiastes 3 came to mind for you.


3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

 

[candle glow]

There is times to talk to people and times not to.

That's true enough.

However, I'm hoping to move on to something a bit meatier, like WHY people sometimes choose to stay quiet.

There have been several indications on this thread that people choose to stay quiet because they don't want to upset their employer. It makes sense, because if we are being paid to do a specific job, then any time we give to doing ANOTHER job will be time spent cheating on our employer.

That's why Jesus talked about two masters, referring to God as one master and mammon (money and the things money can buy) as the other master.

Even the thing about "I say God bless you and that's my witness" is a subtle form of the "stay quiet" issue, because "God bless you" is so short and generally a more tolerated expression of faith because it's so commonly used. Yeah, it's something, but it's more like the bare minimum which people apply to soothe their consciences, but it's not really consistent with the kind of witness Jesus said he wants from us as his followers in general.

What happens if we start talking about the actual teachings of Jesus? What about "go into all the world preaching the gospel" or "Don't use special titles to exalt one another", or "pray for laborers because the harvest is ready but the laborers are few"?

Again, most Christians will argue, "that's not my responsibility; God didn't call me to preach that message; we all have our own ministries; I work for money so I can pay other people to do the witnessing for me."

It really makes me wonder if that's what Jesus was talking about when he said the road is narrow, and few will find it. Or, when he asked, "will the son of man find any faith on the Earth when he returns"?

 

[Omena]

I think the sad truth is that people want to give the bare minimum to God, and most of their time to money. Money provides immediate, tangible rewards, whereas God's rewards are often spiritual, and even more often delayed rather than instant. In some ways I can understand the dilemma that puts people in, because we all like material things that make us feel good. But that's the discipline of being Christian, isn't it? Jesus tells us to forsake the material comforts so that we can receive spiritual comforts in the future. Not so easy, but then Jesus never said it would be a cakewalk.

 

[michaelG1949]

actually i am better off bankrupt with vert little money. u gave more time foe Gods work. and the pay is mucg more satisfying

 

[Omena]

actually i am better off bankrupt with vert little money. u gave more time foe Gods work. and the pay is mucg more satisfying

This is a point which is overlooked so much, that is that being materially poor can actually be a very good thing because it gets us to appreciate what we do have. I watched a documentary about a lady from Germany who got rid of all her things, and she jumped around for joy when she had nothing left but the clothes on her back.

I agree that God's pay is much more satisfying because it not only fulfills our physical and spiritual needs, but it also opens our eyes to the lie that we can only live if we have a paid job or a fixed income, and there is something very reassuring about that.