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Are you allowed to say it?

candle glow

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I was talking with a friend yesterday about a T-shirt I printed with a Christian message. He joked with me that it could be my "on the job witness" but said that I'd probably not be allowed to wear it in a normal work environment anyway.

I joked that I'd have to be content to just keep saying "God bless you" as my on the job witness, but then I wondered if there are any jobs left where people are allowed to talk about God at all.

Are you allowed to say "God bless you" at your place of work?
 

If Not For Grace

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I prefer the term "MAY God bless you" (since the other way seems to imply I can tell God what to do ;) ) but If it's against any rules where I work (which is a State run mental hospital) it has never been addressed.
 
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americanvet

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In my profession (law enforcement) you have to be careful what you say, when you say it, and to whom you say it to. I have witnessed to people are work. But because of the type of work it is few and far between.
 
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i guess i have been very fortunate in my work life. i worked in a union shop and on breaks, we even had bible studies if u wanted. i could wear almost anything proclaiming God or Jesus. what we couldn't do was wear or say things against other people or religions. which to me was no problem. most people understand that if you believe yours is the right way theirs may not be, without trying to start a fight. i know of at least 2 men who became baptized believers due to very subtle and long term talks at work. in your face talks and actions had already backed them away before. nice thing about being retired tho, is i don't have to worry about that anymore. can't get fired for anything. might be put in jail these days, but they feed you there and God is there also. the ones that i feel sorry for are friends whom are teachers.
 
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Boidae

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When I worked at an amusement park, no we were not allowed to say anything like that to our guests as it was against their rules in case anyone would be offended by it. Now if a guest said something to me, yes I would say something to them and me and a couple of employees also talked about the things of God.
 
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When I was teaching special education, I was lucky enough to teach in a school where the super was a minister; the principal's father was a minister; and my coordinator was the wife of a minister. Many teachers were Christians and had husbands that were ministers. I stepped over the line a couple times with my students and if I was in any other school district... I might have been in trouble, but as it was the parents thanked me for helping their children.

God did bless me with my job.:amen:
 
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candle glow

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nice thing about being retired tho, is i don't have to worry about that anymore. can't get fired for anything. might be put in jail these days, but they feed you there and God is there also. the ones that i feel sorry for are friends whom are teachers.

I think Micheal's thoughts about retirement probably come closest to my own feelings on the issue. It's nice not to have to worry about someone firing me if I talk about God, although I think it would be a shame if anyone felt they had to wait until retirement to be able to preach the gospel.

but If it's against any rules where I work (which is a State run mental hospital) it has never been addressed.

Hi ifnotforgrace,
What do you think would happen if it was addressed?

In my profession (law enforcement) you have to be careful what you say, when you say it, and to whom you say it to. I have witnessed to people are work. But because of the type of work it is few and far between.

hi Americanvet,
Do you mean you have to be careful because of what your superiors may say about it or because it could cause problems with conflict of interest with investigations or something like that?

When I worked at Legoland, no we were not allowed to say anything like that to our guests as it was against their rules in case anyone would be offended by it. Now if a guest said something to me, yes I would say something to them and me and a couple of employees also talked about the things of God.

hi Boidae. If a supervisor overheard you talking with a customer about God, would you get in trouble even if you argued that the customer was okay with it?
 
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Boidae

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hi Boidae. If a supervisor overheard you talking with a customer about God, would you get in trouble even if you argued that the customer was okay with it?

Yes, I would have gotten in trouble as it was against the rules of the park for there to be a religious discussion.
 
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candle glow

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Yes, I would have gotten in trouble as it was against the rules of the park for there to be a religious discussion.

Thanks for clarifying that, boidae. I think it illustrates the predicament that a lot of Christians find themselves in when trying to manage an "on the job" witness in a situation where they have to break the rules in order to witness.

Whether the person has never been caught, or the situation has never been directly addressed, or they just have to be very careful about how they do it, the company probably has some kind of rule against proselytizing.
 
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candle glow

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I feel this thread is worth resurrecting since it's so intimately linked with a few other threads which are trending right now.

A lot of people talk about "witnessing on the job" while they are busy working for money.

But in so many cases, that "on the job witness" appears to be more of a convenient doctrine rather than a genuine application of what Jesus told his followers to do.

Most people are not allowed to preach while working at their jobs. This is because they are not being paid to preach; they are being paid to do some other job (whatever the job is).

The time they spend talking about God is time which they are NOT dedicating to whatever job it is that they are supposed to be doing. In other words, whatever time they spend doing something which they are not being paid to do, is time which they are cheating on their employer.

The same could be said for personal phone calls, surfing face book or other social media etc. They are not paid to do those things. They are paid to do a specific job. If they do other jobs while "on the clock" then they are cheating their employer.

This is why Jesus said "you cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other".
 
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thesunisout

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This is why Jesus said "you cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other".

Brother, your exegesis here is just not consistent with the scriptures. We have to take in the whole counsel of God before we make a doctrine out of one verse, and there are a few scriptures which contradict your interpretation of Matthew 6:24. For instance Paul tells us in 2 Thessalonians 3 that he forsook the wages he was entitled to for preaching the gospel, as he did at many other churches, and instead he worked for the money to pay for his own bread:

2 Thessalonians 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you.

Was Paul following a "convenient doctrine" here? No, he was laboring for wages so he wouldn't be a burden on anyone. This is why Paul gave this command:

2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

2Th 3:11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies.

2Th 3:12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.

If you won't work, you don't eat. Pretty straightforward isn't it? We as Christians are told here to earn our own living and not be a burden to anyone. This is quite a contradiction to your doctrine that you can't serve God and earn money at a job at the same time. Scripture is telling us that if we are a burden to others, depending on others for sustenance when we could be earning wages to take care of ourselves, we are outside of Gods will because we are walking in idleness. Such people should not be fed, by the command of the apostle Paul.

We also see Paul telling us in 1 Timothy 5:8 that if we don't provide for our families we are worse than unbelievers:

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

So unless scripture is contradicting itself, we can see that your interpretation is not accurate.

What Jesus is talking about in Matthew is serving a false idol versus the true God. The dichotomy is that you are putting money in the place of God, and serving money instead of God. According to the word of God, merely working to earn a living is not putting money in place of God. It's actually doing what God commanded us to do through the apostle Paul.

A person working solely to earn more and more money, to use to increase his material wealth and status, is serving an idol. A person working to put food on the table for his family is serving God.

You say that a person who is working couldn't necessarily spend all of their time witnessing for God therefore they are outside of Gods will. Well, if that's true then you should only sleep 3 hours a night so you can get out there on the street and tell more people about Christ. You are wasting all of that time sleeping when you could probably go at least 6 months on that schedule.

Do you see then that there is a time and a place for everything? How do you know that God doesn't want a person at a certain job so they can reach a certain person, even if they only get to talk about Christ 5 minutes a week? That's the point, you don't know that, so you can't condemn someone for supposedly wasting their time working when they are doing Gods will by representing Christ at their work place the way God wants them to.
 
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candle glow

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Hi sunny,

The point of this thread is about not being able to talk about God at work. The reason that is the case is because employers do not hire people to preach the gospel. They hire them to do specific jobs for cash.

Cash is the goal of the employee and not preaching the gospel. Whatever preaching they MAY do while working is time spent doing a job which they are NOT hired to do and therefore they are cheating the employer.

This is why an "on the job witness" is actually quite ineffectual. A "God bless you" here and there is not preaching the gospel, especially if it's being done on the sly for fear of what the employer may think.
 
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thesunisout

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Hi sunny,

The point of this thread is about not being able to talk about God at work. The reason that is the case is because employers do not hire people to preach the gospel. They hire them to do specific jobs for cash.

Cash is the goal of the employee and not preaching the gospel. Whatever preaching they MAY do while working is time spent doing a job which they are NOT hired to do and therefore they are cheating the employer.

This is why an "on the job witness" is actually quite ineffectual. A "God bless you" here and there is not preaching the gospel, especially if it's being done on the sly for fear of what the employer may think.

I was responding to your recent post which is based on the premise that Jesus told us we are not supposed to work for money based on your interpretation of Matthew 6:24. I addressed your argument from scripture and showed that this premise is incorrect. If you want to concede the point, that's fine..

To your point of how productive we can be at work, and stealing time, etc..as I already pointed out, Gods word says we should earn a living. There is no compromise in following the word of God. We can use the opportunities that God gives us within that, such as at a lunch break, or if we have the freedom to, during the work day. We can also witness Christ through our actions. It's up to God how He wants to use us in any particular situation and you can't place limits as to where He will or won't send someone to work. There is no way you could possibly know that.
 
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candle glow

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the only time you cannot tell of the good news of the lord Jesus -

is when you are not willing to . for pride for fear for self preservation

Yeah Micheal I think you are correct here. People choose not to preach the gospel when preach will cost them something personally. That's why they come up with these convenient doctrines.

It's called a "convenient" doctrine because it is convenient. Jesus talked about a completely new way of life. Any atheist can go out and get a job working for money; it takes no faith to work for money.

But, forsaking the systems of man and living the way Jesus and his followers lived DOES take faith, because we cannot see God. We cannot manipulate him the way we can an hourly schedule when working for cash.

People are not free to preach the gospel at their "places of work" because they know they are not paid to do that. IF their employer catches them doing a job which they are not being paid to do, the employer will be angry, and rightly so.

The same applies to God. He's given us a new job, to work for the values of the kingdom of Heaven, which includes sharing and working for love.

We cannot say that we are working for love and sharing when we force people to pay us for our help.

These are two different employers. We either work for God or work for money. In either case, we must work. but in one case, we work for free for the benefit of others and trust our heavenly employer to care for us, and in the OTHER case we force people to pay us for our help, believing that we will die if we don't demand payment.

Preaching the gospel and working for money are definitely not compatible with one another. That's why the apostles are recorded as quitting their jobs to follow Jesus and preach full time.
 
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Alithis

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easy to say if you live in a position of no responsibility to others .
real to say - when you have risked your life to speak .

I have risked some things, but not my life . I pray the lord will not lead me into such a testing ..but if he does he will enable me to the task- because he loves me and his will toward me is good and eternally beneficial .

It is good for us to trust that God will direct our paths .. but that which God has done and is doing in my life ,i cannot impose upon another
and that which God has done and is doing in your life -you are not able to impose upon another .
there is much peace in trusting God and knowing this .
 
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candle glow

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but that which God has done and is doing in my life ,i cannot impose upon another
and that which God has done and is doing in your life -you are not able to impose upon another .
Hi Michael. I'm not talking about imposing anything. I'm just talking about the teachings of Jesus and a lifestyle which is consistent with those teachings.

easy to say if you live in a position of no responsibility to others .
real to say - when you have risked your life to speak .
I don't know what you mean by this. This thread is about the dilemma we put ourselves in when we try to work for two employers (as Jesus described it).

If you spend your time employed to do a specific job to earn money, then any time you give to doing ANY other job, while on the clock, will be time cheating on your employer.

If you are working for God and his kingdom of love and sharing, where people help one another just because they want to, then you will be cheating on that employer (God) anytime you force people to pay you for your help.

The two systems operate on different values. That is why you cannot work for both without cheating on one or the other.
 
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Omena

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...Gods word says we should earn a living

I really liked something that Luke1433 said on one of the other threads. Why should we have to earn the right to live, when God has already given us life, and even told us that he will supply us with the needs to live as long as we work for him?

Something that people really seem to NOT want to hear is that 'working' (when mentioned in the Bible) does not automatically imply "for money". It's been said several times on this forum, and yet nobody seems to be even considering that as a possibility.
 
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abysmul

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on topic (more or less):

I'm lucky to work for a small business that is run by a Christian. We even sign a document at the point of being hired that we acknowledge the company is guided by Christian ideal. Our letterhead and business cards even have the Icthys symbol printed on them.

Religious discussions are not uncommon, it's really no unusual to have a coworker walk buy and simply mention a Bible verse... as an invitation for you to look it up, read it, and share your thoughts with them on it later.

Oh, and yes, we have prayers at our company gatherings too! :thumbsup:
 
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