Are Westerners Hypocrites regarding Muslim women and oppression?

[Not David]

I believe there is a difference between Western Islam and Middle East Islam.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I believe there is a difference between Western Islam and Middle East Islam.

...and Asian Islam and African Islam. As with anything, there's regional variations.

 

[teresa]

getting to know people helps to learn about differences and a good starting point is to find things in common

 

[Not David]

...and Asian Islam and African Islam. As with anything, there's regional variations.

What I mean is that Muslims in the US and Europe tend to adopt ideas from those countries (which might be Christian-based). A lot of them go for the Quran along even tho Islam has always been about traditions too, so they use their own interpretations.

 

[dzheremi]

Okay, I'll bite: where's the magical region where the religion's command that women cover is taken as anything other than that? I agree you'll find plenty of women not in hijabs across the forced-to-be-Muslim world, but none who do so without either ignoring or resisting pressure that they should, since that's what their religious tradition tells them.

Popular Islamic pro-hijab meme:

"(You can) wear the hijab or (be) ravaged by eyes" (looks, attention, etc.)

Apparently women are candy and men are flies. What a great 'choice' is offered here! And what respect this religion must have for women (and men too)!

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Using the nun as example: The nun chooses to wear robes & make extra commitments. The Muslim woman has no choice. The nun does this as special devotion to God; the Muslim woman does this out of sexist legalism from the Qu'ran.

Though in some countries, such as Iran where the hijab is compulsory, women are deprived of choice and face severe and cruel punishments for not being in compliance with laws dictating how she must dress, elsewhere in the world it actually is a choice women have made of their own volition. And some have resented that choice and are vitriolic and even abusive towards those who choose it, paradoxically including those who've also propagandized modest dress for women. I think the OP has a solid point.

A friend of mine was unexpectedly and painfully immersed into controversy when a photo of her with friends in the student section at a college football game celebrating our team's victory went viral after being posted on the college's athletic department's Facebook page, and she was attacked for wearing a hijab. She received death threats and intense debasing hatred, but refused to acquiesce and be bullied into changing her choice because it was significant to her. Many within our university community supported her, with the harassment primarily stemming from those outside of it. Many other women who've also made that choice have been harassed for it, from teenagers to executives. Beverly Hills has a high population of Muslim residents, and numerous women who are well-educated and have professional careers enabling them to be fully independent and wear whatever they choose choose to wear the hijab.

No woman should be forced to wear a hijab, and no grown woman should be denied the choice; the absence of choice is what determines oppression.

 

[paul1149]

I have some Muslim sisters and they love God so much. They wear Hijab to stop lusting and wayward eyes. It is deeply personal to them.

The first step to sharing Christ is getting to know people and creating a relationship and sharing things in common.

The problem, as I see it, begins with legalism. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life (2Cor 3). Women who don't wear the hijab are beaten in some countries. While wanting to stop lusting eyes is a laudable motivation, Islam puts way too much responsibility on the woman for purity between the sexes. While the man gets pretty much a free ride, the woman is a second-class citizen. I don't believe there's much in the koran about women reaching heaven, whereas men get their 72 "houri". Women exist for their husband's pleasure. They can be divorced at any time by a mere word from him. Virgin women cannot be put to death, so it is common practice in Iran's Evan prison to rape female political prisoners before executing them.

Western culture has gone way too far in the opposite direction, toward licentiousness. I hate the way many women dress these days. Very little is left to the imagination. I can't watch beauty contests anymore (not that I'd want to, but to make a point) because they feel like soft inappropriate content.

The most attractive woman to me is one who takes care of herself and dresses sensibly. Christianity supports this very nicely with the freedom, with responsibility, that we have in Christ. Freedom to be yourself and celebrate who God made you to be; responsibility not to stumble others.

Your last point is important. We have to be careful to separate the individual from the culture they were brought up in. Christ came here in love, to a culture far inferior to what He was used to, and we are called to act in similar fashion.

 

[Tolworth John]

Many Muslim women say that they choose freely to cover, just as we modest christian women do. We both feel closer to God this way.

If Jesus said that men commit adultery in their heart, should we not protect men by covering ourselves and not leading them into temptation?

Nun, Jew, Muslim, whats not to admire and love about trying to keep pure?

There is a big difference between freely chosing and being required to do.

That some women want to be modest is good, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that in doing so you protect men from lust.

Lust aries out of our imaginations and is fed by what we see. That is regardless of how modest a women dresses.

The law does not stop sin, it only shows it up.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

The Jewish lady seems to have the nicest outfit. Perhaps the other religions noted should adopt the dress code of Judaism for their women?

 

[mkgal1]

If anyone is interested....I believe this video offers information against stereotypes and gives, firsthand, information about what the Quran actually instructs (basically "there is to be no compulsion in faith"- freedom is very important). Every religion has its legalistic and extreme versions.....and unfortunately because those are usually the loudest voices....that's often how each religion becomes stereotyped as.

 

[Dave-W]

Maybe modesty cannot make a difference no matter what Jesus commanded.

In countries where traditional Islam and modern western cultures intermingle, women in burkas report more instances of cat calls and groping than women in short skirts.

Lust is in the heart of the beholder; not so much what the woman is wearing.

 

[Dave-W]

Apparently women are candy and men are flies. What a great 'choice' is offered here! And what respect this religion must have for women (and men too)!

Under the Taliban in Afghanistan, shepherds were punished if they did not put diapers on their female sheep. Apparently some Islamic cleric decided that sheep genitals were arousing and they needed to be hidden lest the lonely shepherd be tempted to commit inappropriate behavior with animals.

 

[Dave-W]

Nun, Jew, Muslim, whats not to admire and love about trying to keep pure?

You might like this:

 

[Zoii]

Christian men don't believe in "honor killings".

A lot of Moslems do.

So there are some kinda sorta huge differences.

Separately, why is far-right in "quote fingers" up there?

That's a very selective historical memory. I certainly agree that women's rights are poorer in Islamic countries. But don't imagine that Christianity has clean hands when it comes to the treatment of women. Go to Ireland and discuss how Christians treated pregnant unwed women and when suspicious deaths of their neonates stopped.

 

[mkgal1]

I certainly agree that women's rights are poorer in Islamic countries

Something I found interesting is that only in Saudia Arabia and Iran is that true.

OTOH..... four of the top five most populous Muslim majority countries: Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey have elected female heads of state (something the US still has yet to accomplish).

 

[teresa]

If anyone is interested....I believe this video offers information against stereotypes and gives, firsthand, information about what the Quran actually instructs (basically "there is to be no compulsion in faith"- freedom is very important). Every religion has its legalistic and extreme versions.....and unfortunately because those are usually the loudest voices....that's often how each religion becomes stereotyped as.

Thanks so much mkgal, this video is really informative....

Spoiler: off topic

The first command in Islam is to read.

Everyone, not just men, but every man, woman and child should read

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Some are I think. I've seen "far-right" groups attack Muslims for their beliefs etc whilst at the same time saying that they are Christian. It makes me cringe a bit because they seem far from Christian. I should mention I'm not supporting Islam.

Isn't the man the head of the home in Christianity? But if a muslim man is the head of his home he's seen negatively. To me it's not black and white. I don't think every woman who wears a scarf is forced to but some probably are

Koran 4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

It is not that a Muslim male as head of house is looked down on, it is the abuse some do to their wife.

What exactly is the following all about?

"
Praise be to Allaah.

Just as Allaah has created mankind, He has also guided them that which is best suited to their interests in this world and in the Hereafter, so He sent them Messengers and revealed Books to guide mankind to what is good and urge them to follow it, and to teach them what is evil and warn them against it.

Islam may enjoin or forbid something and the people – or most of them – may not be able to see the wisdom behind this command or prohibition. In that case we are obliged to obey the command or heed the prohibition and to have certain faith that the laws of Allaah are all good, even if we cannot see the wisdom behind them.

Circumcision is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah, as is indicated by the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, and trimming the moustache." narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257).

Undoubtedly with regard to the Sunnahs of the fitrah, some of the wisdom behind them is obvious, and that includes circumcision. There are clear benefits to it which we should pay attention to and understand the wisdom behind it.

In the answer to question no. 9412 we have discussed circumcision, how it is to be done and the ruling on it. In the answer to question no. 7073 we have explained the health and shar’i benefits of circumcision for males.

Circumcision is prescribed for both males and females. The correct view is that circumcision is obligatory for males and that it is one of the symbols of Islam, and that circumcision of women is mustahabb but not obligatory.

There are reports in the Sunnah which indicate that circumcision for women is prescribed in Islam. In Madeenah there was a woman who circumcised women and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits.

Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:

The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.

Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.

Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.

Circumcision prevents spasms of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which are a kind of inflammation.

Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire.

Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:

Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy” i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]) and its nerves.

From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).

The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):

For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.

Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:

It takes away excessive libido from women

It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.

It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections

It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.

In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:

With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.

And Allaah knows best."Medical benefits of female circumcision - Islam Question & Answer
----Staff Edit----

 

[hedrick]

I think the assumption behind the OP is questionable. There is lots to complain about in traditional attitudes towards women. Many of the cultures in which Muslims live are high on the list. But I don't consider covering the hair to be oppression. It's probably a vestige of attitudes towards women that I think are wrong, but there's nothing wrong with honoring your tradition. There are plenty of Muslim students and employees at my university who cover their hair. As far as i know, no one sees anything odd about it.