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are we or are we not to blame?

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darkryu75

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so was thinking...

since we're born sinners for what Adam, and Eve did.

Are we not responsible for what all of our ancestors have done?

like white people in the united states. blacks were slaves. so are whites not guilty, responsible, and should be punished for this?

I mean. if whites aren't responsible, guilty, and shouldn't be punished. then that must mean that we aren't born sinners.

so if we aren't born sinners that must mean that Jesus died for nothing. so that must also mean that he didn't die for us, and that praising him as such is pointless. he was just a guy who promoted love and peace, there was nothing special about him. should we not also worship Martin Luther king, Ghandi, or any other person that promotes love and peace?
 

HuntingMan

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I think before the discussion even begins we have to define 'sin' and understand exactly what all it is and what type of things it includes.

Some seem to think that 'sin' is an entity in and of itself.
Others seem to think that its a 'taint' on mankind'.
Even more still would seemingly believe that 'sin' is only committing an 'evil' act.

What a person believes about what 'sin' is is going to determine a lot of what they think as far as being 'punished' for things we personally may not have committed.
 
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shepsgirl

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We inherited the sinful nature but not all the sins of all the people before us. We have our own sins that need to be dealt with.



So, if a white person kills somebody then I'm sinning? Does that mean all Germans have commited the same sins as Hitler? Of course not.


so was thinking...

since we're born sinners for what Adam, and Eve did.

Are we not responsible for what all of our ancestors have done?

like white people in the united states. blacks were slaves. so are whites not guilty, responsible, and should be punished for this?

I mean. if whites aren't responsible, guilty, and shouldn't be punished. then that must mean that we aren't born sinners.

so if we aren't born sinners that must mean that Jesus died for nothing. so that must also mean that he didn't die for us, and that praising him as such is pointless. he was just a guy who promoted love and peace, there was nothing special about him. should we not also worship Martin Luther king, Ghandi, or any other person that promotes love and peace?
 
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Jet_A_Jockey

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so was thinking...

since we're born sinners for what Adam, and Eve did.

Are we not responsible for what all of our ancestors have done?
shepsgirl summed this up well.


so if we aren't born sinners that must mean that Jesus died for nothing. so that must also mean that he didn't die for us, and that praising him as such is pointless. he was just a guy who promoted love and peace, there was nothing special about him. should we not also worship Martin Luther king, Ghandi, or any other person that promotes love and peace?
I don't see how you are coming to this conclusion. Assuming that people are not born sinners, does that mean they lead a sinless life?
There is not one of us who can testify that they have never sinned (except Christ ofc).
 
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darkryu75

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we inherit sin. that is the punishment of the actions of Adam and Eve. we deserved the punishment of sin. I said whites in the U.S. it really is just an example.

ultimatly it's just Should we be punished for what Our parents did, what our grand parents did, what our great grand parents, our great great grand parents did, and so on all the way up to adam and eve.

to deny this is to deny the bible, and deny the faith.
 
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mishmoo

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God said to Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If they had not eaten its fruit than we would not know how to sin.
We are not being punished for Adams sin of disobeying God, we are subject to judgement and have the need to repent because we now have the ability to sin also.

well.... at least thats what I make of it!!!
I hope you are all well.
May God bless you all :)

 
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sentipente

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God said to Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If they had not eaten its fruit than we would not know how to sin.
This would mean that it was not a sin to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because it was through eating the fruit that we learned or gained the knowledge of how to sin.
 
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£amb

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I think we received a sinful nature as a result of being born a decsendent of Adam. That doens't mean they are responcilble for our sins. We are responcible for them.

I agree and to expand on what you said here, in Ezekiel chapter 18, we are told that we are responsible for our sins and not the sins of our ancestors.

Here's the chapter to read:

Ezekiel 18

The Soul Who Sins Will Die

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
" 'The fathers eat sour grapes,
and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
5 "Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor's wife
or lie with a woman during her period.
7 He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
8 He does not lend at usury
or take excessive interest.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between man and man.
9 He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign LORD.
10 "Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things 11 (though the father has done none of them):
"He eats at the mountain shrines.
He defiles his neighbor's wife.
12 He oppresses the poor and needy.
He commits robbery.
He does not return what he took in pledge.
He looks to the idols.
He does detestable things.
13 He lends at usury and takes excessive interest.
Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.
14 "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
15 "He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor's wife.

16 He does not oppress anyone
or require a pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.

17 He withholds his hand from sin
and takes no usury or excessive interest.
He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.
He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. 18 But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.

19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. 27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. 28 Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
 
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Ave Maria

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No, we are not to blame for what our ancestors did and so we should not be punished for what our ancestors did. Why? Because we are not our ancestors! It is just plain stupid to think that we are to blame for what our ancestors have done!
 
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SolomonVII

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so was thinking...

since we're born sinners for what Adam, and Eve did.
It is not that we are born sinners, but that we are born with an inherent tendancy toward sin. Sin has corrupted our natures.
Are we not responsible for what all of our ancestors have done?
No. It is not a matter of personal responsibility. Sin however does not end iwht the sinner. It starts off a domino effect that can carry on far into the future at a great distance and time from the original sinner.

like white people in the united states. blacks were slaves. so are whites not guilty, responsible, and should be punished for this?
Some have made similar arguments for sure.

I mean. if whites aren't responsible, guilty, and shouldn't be punished. then that must mean that we aren't born sinners.
Exactly.

so if we aren't born sinners that must mean that Jesus died for nothing.
If we all remained as sinless as on the day that we are born, then this would be true.

so that must also mean that he didn't die for us, and that praising him as such is pointless.
Your reasoning needs a reality check at some point. Sin did not enter in the world through our natures, but through our deeds. The reality of a world imbued with the effects of sin to the core is the kind of world that makes up our reality.
he was just a guy who promoted love and peace, there was nothing special about him. should we not also worship Martin Luther king, Ghandi, or any other person that promotes love and peace?
In a sense that is true. Christ works through all men to recreate the world according to the God's original plan. To the extent that many have become influenced by his vision, Christ lives in all people of good will.
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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Sin doesnt keep you out of heaven..not believing who Jesus is and what he said and what he did keeps you out of heaven.

That's funny, because the devil and all his angels believe in Jesus.

Sin is what keeps you out of Heaven. It is the belief in Christ and the acceptance of grace that allows us to enter God's presence in Heaven.
 
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Tavita

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Sin doesnt keep you out of heaven..not believing who Jesus is and what he said and what he did keeps you out of heaven.

Those at the great white throne judgment are judged for their 'deeds', or works, not for whether they accepted Jesus Christ or not.
 
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SpiritDriven

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No....we are not to blame, we never where.
That is why God ended the issue of blame at the Cross.
The Grace of God was a descision God made....not a desicion man makes.....we account for nothing...

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the Host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand or say to Him, "What hast Thou done" (Daniel 4:35).


All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him (Isaiah 53:6).

We have not even reached the New Testament period yet and God is already making his intentions known...
 
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Tissue

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We are not responsible for the sins of our parents, but we do have to manage the consequences.

As in, grandmother accumulates debt and dies. Children are not responsible as regards the action of theaccumulation of that debt, but they are responsible for the status of "indebted" which is passed on.
 
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