Are we in the 7 year tribulation?

[Douggg]

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

I agree. But I would not call the second coming as the final judgment (if that is what you meant). The Great White Throne judgment is the final judgment, a thousand years after the Second Coming.

The beast will be cast into the lake of fire at the Second Coming. I am sure we can agree on that.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You went through that encyclopedia long post - and still don't understand that...

kjv
2Thessalonains 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

... the falling away is talking about some Christians will stop believing that Jesus is the messiah, and will become convinced that the Antichrist, perceived messiah by the Jews is the real messiah. It will take place over a 3 year span, the first part of the 7 years.

Christians will stop believing that Jesus is Messiah and go after another man you called antichrist? Is that your definition of falling away?

The words translated 'falling away' in the king James version, is the Greek word [apostasia], from which we get the word apostasy. In this context it means to be separated from God. It illustrates that people in the Church begin to depart from the laws of God. Paul is prophesying that the unfaithful Church (which is the visible Holy Temple of God) will separate himself from God by forsaking His laws and doing whatever seems right in their own eyes. Being seduced by deceivers (verse 10), these people are committing 'spiritual fornication' or harlotry against God. This is manifested by their having 'another' to rule over the Church (verse 4). The term God uses for man forsaking Him to serve a false god is 'Abomination.' Serving other gods in the Holy Temple of God is the abomination which will leave the congregation desolate. The same as it did Israel, the Old Testament congregation of God.

Your doctrine on falling away isn't accurate. Nothing to do with Antichrist in the MIddle East where Christians will go after instead of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

It will take place over a 3 year span, the first part of the 7 years.

No such thing as a 7 year tribulation

When the bad guy is revealed in Jerusalem, the 3.5 year tribulation starts, the 1260 days of the (Two Witnesses) and 42 months of (The Beast) this time is "Parallel" representing 3.5 years not 7 years as many falsely teach

 

[Douggg]

Christians will stop believing that Jesus is Messiah and go after another man you called antichrist? Is that your definition of falling away?

The words translated 'falling away' in the king James version, is the Greek word [apostasia], from which we get the word apostasy. In this context it means to be separated from God. It illustrates that people in the Church begin to depart from the laws of God. Paul is prophesying that the unfaithful Church (which is the visible Holy Temple of God) will separate himself from God by forsaking His laws and doing whatever seems right in their own eyes. Being seduced by deceivers (verse 10), these people are committing 'spiritual fornication' or harlotry against God. This is manifested by their having 'another' to rule over the Church (verse 4). The term God uses for man forsaking Him to serve a false god is 'Abomination.' Serving other gods in the Holy Temple of God is the abomination which will leave the congregation desolate. The same as it did Israel, the Old Testament congregation of God.

Your doctrine on falling away isn't accurate. Nothing to do with Antichrist in the MIddle East where Christians will go after instead of Jesus Christ.

Read the verse again...

kjv
2Thessalonians2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

... it is tying the falling away to the the man of sin, the son of perdition, person. There is no mention of departing from the laws of God.

 

[Douggg]

No such thing as a 7 year tribulation

When the bad guy is revealed in Jerusalem, the 3.5 year tribulation starts, the 1260 days of the (Two Witnesses) and 42 months of (The Beast) this time is "Parallel" representing 3.5 years not 7 years as many falsely teach

I agree - no such thing as a 7-year tribulation. But there is such a thing as the 7-year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The first 3 years, thereabouts, of the 70th week, the Jews and the rest of the world will be thinking that the Antichrist is the promised messiah that the Jews have been looking for. The world will be saying peace and safety at that, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

 

[Douggg]

When the bad guy is revealed in Jerusalem, the 3.5 year tribulation starts, the 1260 days of the (Two Witnesses) and 42 months of (The Beast) this time is "Parallel" representing 3.5 years not 7 years as many falsely teach

When the person is revealed to be the man of sin, and not the messiah as the Jews will have first believed, not long after that the great tribulation (not tribulation, but great tribulation) will start when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree - no such thing as a 7-year tribulation. But there is such a thing as the 7-year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The first 3 years, thereabouts, of the 70th week, the Jews and the rest of the world will be thinking that the Antichrist is the promised messiah that the Jews have been looking for. The world will be saying peace and safety at that, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

I Disagree With Your Claims, Daniel's 70 Literal Weeks Are "Future"

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Future Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Douggg]

I Disagree With Your Claims, Daniel's 70 Literal Weeks Are "Future"

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Future Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I can quickly prove that interpretation of 70 literal weeks incorrect. And the 70th week as being 7 years, correct.

In Ezekiel 39:1-16, is the demise of Gog's army, a latter days, latter years event, Ezekiel 38:8 and 38:16.

There are seven years in Ezekiel 39:9-10 following the demise of Gog's army. The conclusion of the Gog/Magog event ends in Ezekiel 39:16.

Then Ezekiel is told to prophesy again, but about another big judgement event in Ezekiel 39:17-20 - which is the Armageddon event at Jesus's Return, matching the text of Revelation 19:17-18.

So that seven years following Gog/Magog is the seven-year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. It has to be, because Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon event. And in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth, to rule over the nations. And the house of Israel - knowing that He is the Lord their God from that day and forward.

kvj
Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


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So I would suggest to you to abandon your literal week theory for the 70 weeks, and instead go with the traditional view 70 heptads, a group of seven, which 7 years was expressed as weeks. The 7-year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 corresponds to the 7 years following Gog/Magog.

During that 7 years following Gog/Magog, the Jews will be able to conduct their animal sacrifices and temple building without any interference from the muslims.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Read the verse again...

kjv
2Thessalonians2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

... it is tying the falling away to the the man of sin, the son of perdition, person. There is no mention of departing from the laws of God.

Your thinking and interpretation are flawed. The scripture does NOT confirm what you believe. For example, Christians falling to worship to a person. Absurd! That’s your speculation to fit flawed doctrine that you developed.

 

[Douggg]

Your thinking and interpretation are flawed. The scripture does NOT confirm what you believe. For example, Christians falling to worship to a person. Absurd! That’s your speculation to fit flawed doctrine that you developed.

I did not say that the Christians who will fall away - will worship the perceived Jewish messiah. The Jews are not going to worship their perceived Jewish messiah either.

The perceived Jewish messiah does not reveal he is the man of sin until about 3 years into the 7-year 70th week. At which time, the Jews will reject him.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I did not say that the Christians who will fall away - will worship the perceived Jewish messiah.

Yes. You lied. Per your #60 post:

"... the falling away is talking about some Christians will stop believing that Jesus is the messiah, and will become convinced that the Antichrist, perceived messiah by the Jews is the real messiah. It will take place over a 3 year span, the first part of the 7 years."​

​

The perceived Jewish messiah does not reveal he is the man of sin until about 3 years into the 7-year 70th week. At which time, the Jews will reject him.

More Man-Made Speculations.

 

[Douggg]

Yes. You lied. Per your #60 post:

"... the falling away is talking about some Christians will stop believing that Jesus is the messiah, and will become convinced that the Antichrist, perceived messiah by the Jews is the real messiah. It will take place over a 3 year span, the first part of the 7 years."

No, I did not lie. No one will worship the person while he is in the role of being the Antichrist. It is later, when he is in the role of being the beast (king) that he will be worshiped. Revelation 13:4.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, I did not lie. No one will worship the person while he is in the role of being the Antichrist. It is later, when he is in the role of being the beast (king) that he will be worshiped. Revelation 13:4.

LOL. Not according to your original wording. Nice denial in working.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, I did not lie. No one will worship the person while he is in the role of being the Antichrist. It is later, when he is in the role of being the beast (king) that he will be worshiped. Revelation 13:4.

You try to create two time frames for (The Beast/Antichrist)

(The Beast) is given 42 months that starts at his revealing to the world in the AOD, and it's immediate when the false prophet performs miracles before him and makes the image to be worshipped

 

[Douggg]

You try to create two time frames for (The Beast/Antichrist)

(The Beast) is given 42 months that starts at his revealing to the world in the AOD, and it's immediate when the false prophet performs miracles before him and makes the image to be worshipped

The person will no longer be the Antichrist, phony King of Israel, once he becomes the beast king, dictator of the EU.

 

[Truth7t7]

The person will no longer be the Antichrist, phony King of Israel, once he becomes the beast king, dictator of the EU.

The literal human man (The Beast) will be worshipped by and rule (The World)

Revelation 13:4-8KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[David Kent]

Matthew 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

That was fulfilled in AD 70 when the abomination of the Roman armies, the eagle stood in the holy place, Jerisalem and then in the temple.

 

[David Kent]

The great tribulation in Revelation is on the church, not the Jews. The book of Revelation was written to the church, Revelation 1:1-4. It was written to the church and concerns the church and not the Jews. THE Early Church Writers got it correct, so did the Waldensians, the Hussites, the Lollards, the Reformers and all the church, till the Jesuits introduced the futurist and preterist views in the 16th and 17th centuries. No other view was taught by reformed churches till Edward Irving preached futurism on Christmas Day 1825. (Morning watch magazine, )

 

[Truth7t7]

That was fulfilled in AD 70 when the abomination of the Roman armies, the eagle stood in the holy place, Jerisalem and then in the temple.

70 AD played no part in fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, it appears that you promote (Reformed Preterist Eschatology)

 

[Truth7t7]

the Jesuits introduced the futurist and preterist views in the 16th and 17th centuries. No other view was taught by reformed churches till Edward Irving preached futurism on Christmas Day 1825. (Morning watch magazine, )

Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcasar 1554-1613) introduced your reformed preterist teaching in 70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD and the great tribulation in Matthew Chapter 24