Are we in the 7 year tribulation?

[TribulationSigns]

When the Man Of Sin is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God Messiah to the Jews, and he's on every news channel, and has a guy (The False Prophet) before him performing false miracles calling fire down from heaven

Premillennial fantasy.

As for how will we know we are in the great tribulation, God says we will know by the signs.

Matthew 24:33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Only the wise virgins (Matthew 25) can see and realize they are in the great tribulation after they hear the bridegroom's cry that He is coming. Because they are the ones who will light their way in the darkness. Not speculation that we will know by identifying a single man on every news and looking for literal fire falling down from the sky. That is foolish virgins' speculations. The foolish ones will go to those who buy or sell the lyings signs and wonders (being deceived) in the unfaithful church where they will deny that God is judging them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Premillennial fantasy.

As for how will we know we are in the great tribulation, God says we will know by the signs.

Matthew 24:33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Only the wise virgins (Matthew 25) can see and realize they are in the great tribulation after they hear the bridegroom's cry that He is coming. Because they are the ones who will light their way in the darkness. Not speculation that we will know by identifying a single man on every news and looking for literal fire falling down from the sky. That is foolish virgins' speculations. The foolish ones will go to those who buy or sell the lyings signs and wonders (being deceived) in the unfaithful church where they will deny that God is judging them.

Revelation 13:11-14KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And your point?

 

[Douggg]

And your point?

The great tribulation has not begun yet.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 13:11-14KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The beast with two horns like a lamb is the body of false prophets and christs coming into church with the doctrine of the dragon that deceive people of the congregation to believe a lie and worship Satan.

Verse 13, the Bible does not say the beast "called" down fire from heaven, it says he does great wonders so that he makes fire to come down from heaven. That's not semantics, it's a very different idea from him calling down fire from heaven "as if" he were a prophet. The real question is, "how does he make fire come down from heaven?" Does he call or command it to come from heaven (as is the implication you are making), or in context does he cause it to come down "BY" the great wonders he does, which are clearly an abomination to God. When you look at the passage carefully, that's exactly what he does. And the additional passage I gave in Revelation 20:9 makes it plain that it is correct that God caused it to come down by his actions against God's church (camp of the saints), which is why God consequently sent it to destroy them. Again:

Revelation 20:9

• "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Fire came down from heaven to devour the beast because it compassed or encircled the camp of the saints. For example, it's judgment upon them, not something they themselves wanted and so called it down upon themselves. They weren't seeking judgment upon themselves, they were actually seeking converts as they were under strong delusion in thinking they were doing God a service. In the Biblical context, we see that these are the "deceived." The beast or false prophets CANNOT call fire from heaven any more than the false prophets in Elijah's day could call down fire from heaven. However, they did make or cause fire to come down from heaven to devour them "because" of their abominations. Selah.

And I have explained about the image of the beast and how it speaks on other posts. Look it up. The beast and the false prophet are make up of all heathen people, both in the world and in unfaithful congregations of God all over the Earth to be cast into Lake of Fire where Satan will be also! Not two men will be thrown into a lake of fire as most believe.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The great tribulation has not begun yet.

Yes, it has and it still is here today. You just do not understand the nature of the great tribulation in relationship to God's congregation - where the Two Witnesses are being killed.

 

[Truth7t7]

The great tribulation has not begun yet.

I agree, it will start when the future (Man Of Sin/The Beast) is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God-Messiah to the Jews

 

[Truth7t7]

The beast with two horns like a lamb is the body of false prophets and christs coming into church with the doctrine of the dragon that deceive people of the congregation to believe a lie and worship Satan.

Your claim is False

More Symbolic Allegory, In Removing The Literal Seen Below

(The False Prophet) will be an individual human man just as (The Beast), he will be cast alive into the lake of fire just as (The Beast) as scripture clearly teaches below

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Your claim is False

Unlikely!

More Symbolic Allegory

See, you made the false accusation to avoid receive the truth.

The False Prophet will be an individual human man, cast alive into the lake of fire as scripture clearly teaches below

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

No, the false prophet is the beast with two horns like a lamb but spoke like a dragon. It is the body of MANY false prophets and christs who deceive many. Not one person. So there will be a lot of people cast into the lake of fire, not one false prophet. Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

I agree, it will start when the future (Man Of Sin/The Beast) is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God-Messiah to the Jews

Incorrect.

Satan has been revealed through the false prophets and christs. In Matthew 25, the foolish virgins cannot see this which explains why they are going to those (where the false prophets and christs are) in the church to buy and sell and not realize that they are being deceived. That is why God is causing them to believe a lie as a judgment for unfaithfulness.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, the false prophet is the beast with two horns like a lamb but spoke like a dragon. It is the body of MANY false prophets and christs who deceive many. Not one person. So there will be a lot of people cast into the lake of fire, not one false prophet. Selah!

I Disagree With Your Claims In Symbolic Allegory As I Posted In #49, no further response on (The False Prophet)

 

[Truth7t7]

Incorrect.

Satan has been revealed through the false prophets and christs. In Matthew 25, the foolish virgins cannot see this which explains why they are going to those (where the false prophets and christs are) in the church to buy and sell and not realize that they are being deceived. That is why God is causing them to believe a lie as a judgment for unfaithfulness.

I Disagree with your claims, the (Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) will be revealed to the church on earth

"Let No Man Deceive You"

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[TribulationSigns]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

But do you really understand what the verse talks about? Here is a long lesson if you take God's Word serious and study thyself approved by God.

As far as the prophecy, it is the foretelling of a time of great apostasy in the church where "professing" Christians fall away from the truth of God's word and ultimately Satan is loosed to bring justice upon them for this. I believe that the loosing of the spirit of Satan is what brings about the abomination of "strong" delusion, that will leave the church desolate.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
• Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

That word translated "falling away" is [apostasia], meaning a forsaking or defection from truth. I do believe we are in that period of apostasy now where man thinks he can rule in the church as if he were God. This unfaithful church is where God sends strong delusion as its judgment. I think that we can Biblically define "Delusion," [plane], as psychosis, the mind where subterfuge and fraudulent ideas seem plausible, rational, and justified. It is the antithesis of having a sound or sober mind, meaning spiritual sobriety in restraint from unsound doctrines and irrational invalidated beliefs.

1st Corinthians 2:16

• "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Indeed who has known the mind of the Lord that they may instruct him, and yet through His Spirit we have the mind of Christ that he may instruct us. The sound spiritual mind as opposed to the madness of the unsound mind of those without His presence.

As a practical/biblical example, if I were to say "I read in my Bible that we were predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ," and another would say he "reads in that same Bible that we were predestinated because God saw we would conform to the image of Christ," the later is the unsound mind of spiritual delusion. Delusion or fraudulent thinking because God never said "He saw we would conform," and so that is a delusional declaration of God's word. It is a private interpretation of what God actually said. That is an example of delusion, which is the unreality of an unsound mind. "Strong" delusion would be a great multiplication of that delusion.

Delusion has no sense of reality, honesty, or objectivity and in the final analysis, it is deceitful straying from the truth or orthodoxy in order to follow after error. But there are better things predetermined for Christians whom the Bible speaks of as having a sober or sound mind. This is the exact opposite of an undisciplined, unsound, delusional mind. For any professing Christians to think themselves wise, and yet fall under "strong" delusion from God, is evidence that they have stopped receiving truth and are thinking irrationally or in a perverse way. A way in which God describes them as being simple-minded or a fool (Romans 1:21-22).

Hosea 9:7

• "The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred."

As I stated in another thread, I believe that no greater verse proves the "Spiritual Insanity" of today's professing servants of God in the unfaithful church than this verse. This is the absolutly recognizable and tangible madness of the spiritual man (professing the Spirit of inspiration or God) This is one who is blinded from the truth by his natural carnality and the strong desire for their own will. It's a worldly, natural/carnal drive to do one's own will, and yet lie to themselves in masquerading it as the will of God. It usually reveals itself through dishonest handling of Scripture, the belief of what are lies, lawlessness, rebellion against the Spirit, and the deceitful neglect of God's word. The spiritual man condemned in that verse we just read is the man pretending to have inspiration (the Spirit; Lamentations 2:14; Ezekiel 13:3; Micah 3:11; Zephaniah 3:4) from God. i.e., a professing believer who thinks God leads him. Should we by any stretch of the imagination think that it is not important for the church to know who is truly of God and who is not? Of course it is. Every house, every movement, every group, every association or faction purporting to represent Christ "should be thoroughly vetted or tested" to see if it is truly of the Spirit. ...Even as the Bereans did with the Apostle Paul (Acts 17:11). They didn't blindly reject what Paul said just because they were of a different mindset, they searched God's word to see if what he was saying was actually true. Who in the church is noble/honest enough to do that today? Few, very few.

The unpalatable truth is that we should not believe every professing Christian proclaiming that he is what he says he is. We try the spirits because many false ones are looking to deceive us, and because Christ warned us every tree is known by its fruits. Some trees are not good and their minds are delusional and bring forth bad fruits.

1st John 4:1

• "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

God's word instructs us plainly to try or "test" the spirits so that we know the difference between false delusional prophets and true sober-minded prophets. Would any Bible believer suggest that we ignore these instructions for the sake of false unity? There is only one way to effectively prove the spirits, and that is to try their words by comparing them with the infallible, authoritative words of God. If they agree, all is well, if they are at odds, then we should not receive them as truth. It is only in this way that we can see if we are a body in agreement. To say thus saith the Lord when the Lord has not said is the sign of unbelief, the spiritual madness of prophets in God's house. Spiritually speaking, that prophet is insane and the result is that they will have no true love of God to receive the truth. Despite their protests (and they will protest), they lack the Spirit of God to receive the testimony of truth. Even when you quote it to them word for word from the Bible, they will totally ignore it, fight against it, or flat out deny it. This in order to try and justify their rebellion against it.

John 14:17

• "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

Indeed, they don't recognize truth because they are deceived "because" truth is not in them. They don't really "know" the Spirit of Christ. Selah. God's prophesy of sending them strong delusion (2nd Thessalonians 2:11) is just another way of describing the "Spiritual Insanity" that will come upon them that they make unreasonable and irrational judgments. Minds that are not sober in the Spirit of Christ "cannot" receive or know the truth. In fact, in God's declaration of this coming phenomenon, He declares plainly why this calamity will happen to them:

2nd Thessalonians 2:11-12

• "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The why of God sending "strong" delusion to the "called" but not "chosen" is revealed right here. They would be sent this unsound mind to fall prey to lies and perish because they had no love of the truth that they might truly be saved. ou see they weren't really saved, they only thought they were, and that is why they could fall away into apostasy.

2nd Peer 1:10

• "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

We cannot fall nor fail if we make sure we are not only called but elected or chosen. To those who won't, they have no one to blame but themselves. We witness and we witness to these people and they show no love for what they hear (God's word). They twist it, they deny it, and they ignore it, all of which is demonstrating this lack of love for it. Faithful Christians have seen this play out time and again among the faithless believers that we bear witness to the word among. They won't receive the witness of the word concerning God's truth no matter how many Scripture references are attached to it. Instead, they assign it to being the witness to the words of men, or simply our own interpretation. This despite the fact we didn't interpret it, but testified to it word for word. Without the Spirit of God restraining (2nd Thessalonians 2:7) sin, there will be no revelation of truth to them, and thus the plague of spiritual delusion will run rampant among them. The love of truth demonstrated in the Spirit of God is what constrains us so that we will not be seduced or deceived, while others are being seduced by the will of man masquerading as God's will.

1st John 2:26-27

• "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
• But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

Without this anointing, without this Spirit within us, we are not taught and would be seduced and deceived just like anyone else. Thus it is proved that those who are deluded are allowed that fate "because" they didn't have the love of God to receive the truth that was testified to them (1st John 5:3). Clearly, the responsibility falls upon them. The fact that they wouldn't receive the truth is the evidence they don't really have His Spirit to know Him. That's not speculation, it is what God's word plainly declares, and what they routinely choose to ignore. Ignoring Scripture is not an innocent non-action, nor is it blameless. It is the reason for God's wrath upon them. The fact is, we believe the truth, and we know, and are known of Him because His Spirit dwells within us.

1st John 2:3-4

• "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
• He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.'

We keep God's word because we have the love of God within us. You can't know God without it. We either have the mind of Christ to know God, where we love the truth, or we don't really know God and the truth is not in us. When there is no love of God, iniquity abounds. Or to put it another way, because the love of God grows cold in the churches of the world, iniquity naturally abounds (Matthew 24:12) and these faithless professing Christians simply won't receive the truth that is preached anymore. i.e., an apostasy happens in the church. That's the group we'll call the unfaithful church, and that is the "reason" they are sent this strong delusion as a judgment from God. The type of spiritual madness in which they are willing to believe lies rather than receive the truth quoted from God's word. It's God's wrath upon them (Romans 1:18) for their vain justifications that they would allow the man of sin (or lawlessness) to rule their church instead of Christ. In a word, the antichrist or literally "instead-of-Christ or substitute Christ" spirit whom they serve. Brought on by the will of man in rejoicing (or having pleasure) in unrighteousness. This contrasted with the will of God in us that we have pleasure and rejoice in the truth. The unfaithful defer to man for their interpretations of Biblical law concerning this, while we defer to the truth of the Bible (the infallible word of God).

1st Corinthianso 13:6

• "Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth."

Where those who truly have God's Spirit rejoice in the truth, those without it rejoice in their unrighteousness or iniquity. i.e., we demonstrate our love for God by keeping (guarding from loss) His commandments, not by superficially taking on his name. As we see in the example of the church at Sardis. Unless such a church repents of this, it is doomed.

Revelation 3:1

• "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead."

To live Christ is to have the Spirit of Christ, else there is no life. These false Christians cause tribulation to the faithful "because" by His Spirit, they eschew or abstain from iniquity. This lawlessness produced from the strong delusion causes them great anguish or tribulation and is a type of trial of their faith. The question being will they prevail or persevere or will they succumb to the seduction? In this time of trial, we should learn from the adversity and difficulties that God is still on the throne. We hold fast to God's statutes by sound and sober reasoning. The wicked strike out at the truth "as" the bane of their existence and the adversary. The righteous should look at adversity as the goad of God. We have to open our minds to receive the truth as the solution for the adversity generated by men. It should be self-evident that there are so many professing Christians who do not desire to learn from God's law, and this is often what is causing such animosity and stress in them as they hear our faithful testimony to it. The faithful Christian's philosophy in time of trial should be, "if it is God's word that I am goaded into considering, then it's my duty to be grateful for any discomposure or affliction that I might feel because of it."

Psalms 119:71

• "it is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes."

The Psalmist understood that tribulation worketh to our good. Because affliction or distress of any kind acts as an honorable discipline in leading the Spirit-filled Christian to recognize the great value of the truth and promises of God much more appreciatively. While many of the willful view tribulation as something God does not want us to go through, despite all the passages in Scripture to the contrary. In their spiritual madness that God has sent them, the people who are professing to be messengers of God may actually believe they are doing God's will by their rebellion against the truth. And this delusion of their service to God is nothing new.

 

[Douggg]

I agree, it will start when the future (Man Of Sin/The Beast) is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God-Messiah to the Jews

proclaiming to be God-Messiah to the Jews

---

When he proclaims to be God - the Jews will at that point no longer believe he is their messiah. The Jews will be in a state of shock and dismay at what their thought-to be- messiah has done.

 

[Douggg]

I Disagree with your claims, the (Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) will be revealed to the church on earth

(Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist).

It is the same person we agree. But you have packaged him in the wrong order. For better understanding to the readers of your posts, use this instead....

(the little horn> the prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast )

 

[Truth7t7]

proclaiming to be God-Messiah to the Jews

---

When he proclaims to be God - the Jews will at that point no longer believe he is their messiah. The Jews will be in a state of shock and dismay at what their thought-to be- messiah has done.

Revelation 13:8KJV
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 13:8KJV
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes, the person will be in the role of the beast king at that time. btw, good job in annotating - KJV as the translation.

(the little horn> the prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast )

 

[Truth7t7]

(Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist).

It is the same person we agree. But you have packaged him in the wrong order. For better understanding to the readers of your posts, use this instead....

(the little horn> the prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast )

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Douggg]

But do you really understand what the verse talks about? Here is a long lesson if you take God's Word serious and study thyself approved by God.

As far as the prophecy, it is the foretelling of a time of great apostasy in the church where "professing" Christians fall away from the truth of God's word and ultimately Satan is loosed to bring justice upon them for this. I believe that the loosing of the spirit of Satan is what brings about the abomination of "strong" delusion, that will leave the church desolate.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
• Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

That word translated "falling away" is [apostasia], meaning a forsaking or defection from truth. I do believe we are in that period of apostasy now where man thinks he can rule in the church as if he were God. This unfaithful church is where God sends strong delusion as its judgment. I think that we can Biblically define "Delusion," [plane], as psychosis, the mind where subterfuge and fraudulent ideas seem plausible, rational, and justified. It is the antithesis of having a sound or sober mind, meaning spiritual sobriety in restraint from unsound doctrines and irrational invalidated beliefs.

1st Corinthians 2:16

• "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Indeed who has known the mind of the Lord that they may instruct him, and yet through His Spirit we have the mind of Christ that he may instruct us. The sound spiritual mind as opposed to the madness of the unsound mind of those without His presence.

As a practical/biblical example, if I were to say "I read in my Bible that we were predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ," and another would say he "reads in that same Bible that we were predestinated because God saw we would conform to the image of Christ," the later is the unsound mind of spiritual delusion. Delusion or fraudulent thinking because God never said "He saw we would conform," and so that is a delusional declaration of God's word. It is a private interpretation of what God actually said. That is an example of delusion, which is the unreality of an unsound mind. "Strong" delusion would be a great multiplication of that delusion.

Delusion has no sense of reality, honesty, or objectivity and in the final analysis, it is deceitful straying from the truth or orthodoxy in order to follow after error. But there are better things predetermined for Christians whom the Bible speaks of as having a sober or sound mind. This is the exact opposite of an undisciplined, unsound, delusional mind. For any professing Christians to think themselves wise, and yet fall under "strong" delusion from God, is evidence that they have stopped receiving truth and are thinking irrationally or in a perverse way. A way in which God describes them as being simple-minded or a fool (Romans 1:21-22).

Hosea 9:7

• "The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred."

As I stated in another thread, I believe that no greater verse proves the "Spiritual Insanity" of today's professing servants of God in the unfaithful church than this verse. This is the absolutly recognizable and tangible madness of the spiritual man (professing the Spirit of inspiration or God) This is one who is blinded from the truth by his natural carnality and the strong desire for their own will. It's a worldly, natural/carnal drive to do one's own will, and yet lie to themselves in masquerading it as the will of God. It usually reveals itself through dishonest handling of Scripture, the belief of what are lies, lawlessness, rebellion against the Spirit, and the deceitful neglect of God's word. The spiritual man condemned in that verse we just read is the man pretending to have inspiration (the Spirit; Lamentations 2:14; Ezekiel 13:3; Micah 3:11; Zephaniah 3:4) from God. i.e., a professing believer who thinks God leads him. Should we by any stretch of the imagination think that it is not important for the church to know who is truly of God and who is not? Of course it is. Every house, every movement, every group, every association or faction purporting to represent Christ "should be thoroughly vetted or tested" to see if it is truly of the Spirit. ...Even as the Bereans did with the Apostle Paul (Acts 17:11). They didn't blindly reject what Paul said just because they were of a different mindset, they searched God's word to see if what he was saying was actually true. Who in the church is noble/honest enough to do that today? Few, very few.

The unpalatable truth is that we should not believe every professing Christian proclaiming that he is what he says he is. We try the spirits because many false ones are looking to deceive us, and because Christ warned us every tree is known by its fruits. Some trees are not good and their minds are delusional and bring forth bad fruits.

1st John 4:1

• "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

God's word instructs us plainly to try or "test" the spirits so that we know the difference between false delusional prophets and true sober-minded prophets. Would any Bible believer suggest that we ignore these instructions for the sake of false unity? There is only one way to effectively prove the spirits, and that is to try their words by comparing them with the infallible, authoritative words of God. If they agree, all is well, if they are at odds, then we should not receive them as truth. It is only in this way that we can see if we are a body in agreement. To say thus saith the Lord when the Lord has not said is the sign of unbelief, the spiritual madness of prophets in God's house. Spiritually speaking, that prophet is insane and the result is that they will have no true love of God to receive the truth. Despite their protests (and they will protest), they lack the Spirit of God to receive the testimony of truth. Even when you quote it to them word for word from the Bible, they will totally ignore it, fight against it, or flat out deny it. This in order to try and justify their rebellion against it.

John 14:17

• "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

Indeed, they don't recognize truth because they are deceived "because" truth is not in them. They don't really "know" the Spirit of Christ. Selah. God's prophesy of sending them strong delusion (2nd Thessalonians 2:11) is just another way of describing the "Spiritual Insanity" that will come upon them that they make unreasonable and irrational judgments. Minds that are not sober in the Spirit of Christ "cannot" receive or know the truth. In fact, in God's declaration of this coming phenomenon, He declares plainly why this calamity will happen to them:

2nd Thessalonians 2:11-12

• "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The why of God sending "strong" delusion to the "called" but not "chosen" is revealed right here. They would be sent this unsound mind to fall prey to lies and perish because they had no love of the truth that they might truly be saved. ou see they weren't really saved, they only thought they were, and that is why they could fall away into apostasy.

2nd Peer 1:10

• "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

We cannot fall nor fail if we make sure we are not only called but elected or chosen. To those who won't, they have no one to blame but themselves. We witness and we witness to these people and they show no love for what they hear (God's word). They twist it, they deny it, and they ignore it, all of which is demonstrating this lack of love for it. Faithful Christians have seen this play out time and again among the faithless believers that we bear witness to the word among. They won't receive the witness of the word concerning God's truth no matter how many Scripture references are attached to it. Instead, they assign it to being the witness to the words of men, or simply our own interpretation. This despite the fact we didn't interpret it, but testified to it word for word. Without the Spirit of God restraining (2nd Thessalonians 2:7) sin, there will be no revelation of truth to them, and thus the plague of spiritual delusion will run rampant among them. The love of truth demonstrated in the Spirit of God is what constrains us so that we will not be seduced or deceived, while others are being seduced by the will of man masquerading as God's will.

1st John 2:26-27

• "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
• But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

Without this anointing, without this Spirit within us, we are not taught and would be seduced and deceived just like anyone else. Thus it is proved that those who are deluded are allowed that fate "because" they didn't have the love of God to receive the truth that was testified to them (1st John 5:3). Clearly, the responsibility falls upon them. The fact that they wouldn't receive the truth is the evidence they don't really have His Spirit to know Him. That's not speculation, it is what God's word plainly declares, and what they routinely choose to ignore. Ignoring Scripture is not an innocent non-action, nor is it blameless. It is the reason for God's wrath upon them. The fact is, we believe the truth, and we know, and are known of Him because His Spirit dwells within us.

1st John 2:3-4

• "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
• He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.'

We keep God's word because we have the love of God within us. You can't know God without it. We either have the mind of Christ to know God, where we love the truth, or we don't really know God and the truth is not in us. When there is no love of God, iniquity abounds. Or to put it another way, because the love of God grows cold in the churches of the world, iniquity naturally abounds (Matthew 24:12) and these faithless professing Christians simply won't receive the truth that is preached anymore. i.e., an apostasy happens in the church. That's the group we'll call the unfaithful church, and that is the "reason" they are sent this strong delusion as a judgment from God. The type of spiritual madness in which they are willing to believe lies rather than receive the truth quoted from God's word. It's God's wrath upon them (Romans 1:18) for their vain justifications that they would allow the man of sin (or lawlessness) to rule their church instead of Christ. In a word, the antichrist or literally "instead-of-Christ or substitute Christ" spirit whom they serve. Brought on by the will of man in rejoicing (or having pleasure) in unrighteousness. This contrasted with the will of God in us that we have pleasure and rejoice in the truth. The unfaithful defer to man for their interpretations of Biblical law concerning this, while we defer to the truth of the Bible (the infallible word of God).

1st Corinthianso 13:6

• "Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth."

Where those who truly have God's Spirit rejoice in the truth, those without it rejoice in their unrighteousness or iniquity. i.e., we demonstrate our love for God by keeping (guarding from loss) His commandments, not by superficially taking on his name. As we see in the example of the church at Sardis. Unless such a church repents of this, it is doomed.

Revelation 3:1

• "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead."

To live Christ is to have the Spirit of Christ, else there is no life. These false Christians cause tribulation to the faithful "because" by His Spirit, they eschew or abstain from iniquity. This lawlessness produced from the strong delusion causes them great anguish or tribulation and is a type of trial of their faith. The question being will they prevail or persevere or will they succumb to the seduction? In this time of trial, we should learn from the adversity and difficulties that God is still on the throne. We hold fast to God's statutes by sound and sober reasoning. The wicked strike out at the truth "as" the bane of their existence and the adversary. The righteous should look at adversity as the goad of God. We have to open our minds to receive the truth as the solution for the adversity generated by men. It should be self-evident that there are so many professing Christians who do not desire to learn from God's law, and this is often what is causing such animosity and stress in them as they hear our faithful testimony to it. The faithful Christian's philosophy in time of trial should be, "if it is God's word that I am goaded into considering, then it's my duty to be grateful for any discomposure or affliction that I might feel because of it."

Psalms 119:71

• "it is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes."

The Psalmist understood that tribulation worketh to our good. Because affliction or distress of any kind acts as an honorable discipline in leading the Spirit-filled Christian to recognize the great value of the truth and promises of God much more appreciatively. While many of the willful view tribulation as something God does not want us to go through, despite all the passages in Scripture to the contrary. In their spiritual madness that God has sent them, the people who are professing to be messengers of God may actually believe they are doing God's will by their rebellion against the truth. And this delusion of their service to God is nothing new.

You went through that encyclopedia long post - and still don't understand that...

kjv
2Thessalonains 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

... the falling away is talking about some Christians will stop believing that Jesus is the messiah, and will become convinced that the Antichrist, perceived messiah by the Jews is the real messiah. It will take place over a 3 year span, the first part of the 7 years.

Which that big mistake on the Jews part comes to light when their perceived messiah reveals himself as the man of sin, son of perdition, by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood in 2Thessalonians2:4.