Are we allowed to partake in Christmas?

[christopheralan88]

7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1 Corinthians 5:7-8).

Do you agree that Jesus is our Passover?

Jesus is our Passover lamb, but let me ask you these three questions:

1) Before you quote Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:7-8, I want to know what 2 Peter 3:15-17 means. What are the people that Peter warned about UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE in that they lead others into lawlessness? These people misunderstand and distort Paul to be teaching lawlessness, so we need to be sure we understand what they are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE in.

2) What is the old leaven? What does leaven represent in the Bible? What does unleavened bread represent in the Bible?

3) Let's say you're correct for a second and Passover has changed. How is that possible given given what I quoted in Exodus 12:13-14, Deuteronomy 12:32, and Malachi 3:6? Exodus 12:13-14 are God's words. 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 are Paul's words. Who do you think has higher authority - assuming you're right, of course.

 

[All4Christ]

Jesus is our Passover lamb, but let me ask you these three questions:

1) Before you quote Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:7-8, I want to know what 2 Peter 3:15-17 means. What are the people that Peter warned about UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE in that they lead others into lawlessness? These people misunderstand and distort Paul to be teaching lawlessness, so we need to be sure we understand what they are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE in.

2) What is the old leaven? What does leaven represent in the Bible? What does unleavened bread represent in the Bible?

3) Let's say you're correct for a second and Passover has changed. How is that possible given given what I quoted in Exodus 12:13-14, Deuteronomy 12:32, and Malachi 3:6? Exodus 12:13-14 are God's words. 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 are Paul's words. Who do you think has higher authority - assuming you're right, of course.

I'd say that our views on this probably depend on our views of the Old Covenant and New Covenant, as well as our beliefs on which parts of the law must be upheld by Christians and which were specific to the people of Israel.

 

[christopheralan88]

I'd say that our views on this probably depend on our views of the Old Covenant and New Covenant, as well as our beliefs on which parts of the law must be upheld by Christians and which were specific to the people of Israel.

Most likely, but we should be able to test that to Scripture. Scripture is only saying one of those two, so what do you think about my question?

Also, you make a distinction between Christians and Israel. But, what does Paul say in Romans 11:11-24 we are grafted into? It's Israel. There is no Christian vs. Israel. There is only Israel.

 

[seashale76]

Most likely, but we should be able to test that to Scripture. Scripture is only saying one of those two, so what do you think about my question?

Also, you make a distinction between Christians and Israel. But, what does Paul say in Romans 11:11-24 we are grafted into? It's Israel. There is no Christian vs. Israel. There is only Israel.

Israel is the Church.

 

[christopheralan88]

We (Eastern Orthodox) certainly do not ignore Pascha or celebrate the Nativity of Christ to the exclusion of the Paschal feast, remembering the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Passover. Come to an Orthodox Pascha celebration someday and you'll see what I mean. However, we focus on Jesus as the Passover lamb.

(Whether celebrating the Nativity of Christ does or does not "originate from the enemy" is another question altogether.)

I'm not familiar with Eastern Orthodoxy, so pardon my ignorance on this, but it seems like Pescha is Easter, correct?

If so, I'm curious how you view you're worshiping God with a false god's (Ashtoreth, Astarte, Easter...they're all the same) festival that He didn't command and that He specifically said not to do (Deuteronomy 12:29-31). Can you show me how that is okay?

 

[christopheralan88]

Israel is the Church.

Yup I agree, as long as you're saying that we are grafted into Israel, not Israel grafted into a new church. Which I think is what you're saying, right?

 

[seashale76]

I'm not familiar with Eastern Orthodoxy, so pardon my ignorance on this, but it seems like Pescha is Easter, correct?

If so, I'm curious how you view you're worshiping God with a false god's (Ashtoreth, Astarte, Easter...they're all the same) festival that He didn't command and that He specifically said not to do (Deuteronomy 12:29-31). Can you show me how that is okay?

Lord have mercy on you. There is NOTHING pagan about Pascha involving goddesses or anything of the sort. It is blasphemy to insinuate it, honestly. The question I would ask in return is why a Christian wouldn't want to celebrate the resurrection of Christ?

You've been zapped by historical revisionist made up nonsense. In every language besides English and German- Easter is known as Pascha; and even in English- among Orthodox Christians anyway- we call it Pascha. Here's how we calculate it: Pascha is on the first Sunday after the first full moon (referred to as the Paschal Full Moon) following the vernal equinox. This was established at the First Council of Nicea in 325 so all Christians could celebrate Pascha at the same time. However, Christians celebrated Pascha from the beginning of the Church. Our entire religion revolves around the Incarnation and Resurrection of Christ. This is why we celebrate the Resurrection every Sunday and we commemorate the Resurrection with the moveable Feast of Feasts every year. This throwing that over for a Christless Jewish passover doesn't make any sense.

I also feel compelled to point out that in Latin it is referred to as Pascha or Festa Paschalia. Actually, so far as I know, English and German are the only two languages that refer to Easter/Ostern. In Orthodox Christianity- even in English- we never refer to the Feast of Feasts as Easter. It's alwaysPascha. In fact- it is officially known as/called: Holy Pascha- The Resurrection of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Just as an example of how other languages refer to the Resurrection:
Albanian: Pashket
Arabic: Aid ul-Fish
Bosnian: Uskrs/Vaskrs (literally 'resurrection')
Chinese: Fuhuo Jie (Resurrection Festival)
Croatian: Uskrs
Dutch: Pasen or Paasfeest
French: Paques
Greek: Paskha
Hebrew: Pascha
Italian: Pasqua
Japanese: Fukkatsu-sai (Resurrection Festival)
Persian: Pas'h
Polish: Pascha
Romanian: Paste
Russian: Paskha
Spanish: Pascua
Turkish: Paskalya
Serbian: Uskrs/Vaskrs
Slovak: Vel'ka' Noc (The Great Night)
Ukranian: Paska

Half the time, those who condemn holy days don't take into account the fact that when they come to a Christian message board, those of us who celebrate them do so in primarily a religious context (in the life of Christ's Church). Anything else is secondary- and sometimes nonexistent. If you're condemning secularization of holy days, then I'm there with you. I condemn every single church out there that neglects to celebrate them so the people can go do their secular thing at home instead. However, if you're condemning holy days out of ignorance as to what they are and what they entail, then you've lost me.

 

[seashale76]

Yup I agree, as long as you're saying that we are grafted into Israel, not Israel grafted into a new church. Which I think is what you're saying, right?

And you're saying Israel is Judaism as it is now, right? If so, you're very off the mark.

 

[christopheralan88]

Lord have mercy on you. There is NOTHING pagan about Pascha involving goddesses or anything of the sort. It is blasphemy to insinuate it, honestly. The question I would ask in return is why a Christian wouldn't want to celebrate the resurrection of Christ?

You've been zapped by historical revisionist made up nonsense. In every language besides English and German- Easter is known as Pascha; and even in English- among Orthodox Christians anyway- we call it Pascha. Here's how we calculate it: Pascha is on the first Sunday after the first full moon (referred to as the Paschal Full Moon) following the vernal equinox. This was established at the First Council of Nicea in 325 so all Christians could celebrate Pascha at the same time. However, Christians celebrated Pascha from the beginning of the Church. Our entire religion revolves around the Incarnation and Resurrection of Christ. This is why we celebrate the Resurrection every Sunday and we commemorate the Resurrection with the moveable Feast of Feasts every year. This throwing that over for a Christless Jewish passover doesn't make any sense.

I also feel compelled to point out that in Latin it is referred to as Pascha or Festa Paschalia. Actually, so far as I know, English and German are the only two languages that refer to Easter/Ostern. In Orthodox Christianity- even in English- we never refer to the Feast of Feasts as Easter. It's alwaysPascha. In fact- it is officially known as/called: Holy Pascha- The Resurrection of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Just as an example of how other languages refer to the Resurrection:
Albanian: Pashket
Arabic: Aid ul-Fish
Bosnian: Uskrs/Vaskrs (literally 'resurrection')
Chinese: Fuhuo Jie (Resurrection Festival)
Croatian: Uskrs
Dutch: Pasen or Paasfeest
French: Paques
Greek: Paskha
Hebrew: Pascha
Italian: Pasqua
Japanese: Fukkatsu-sai (Resurrection Festival)
Persian: Pas'h
Polish: Pascha
Romanian: Paste
Russian: Paskha
Spanish: Pascua
Turkish: Paskalya
Serbian: Uskrs/Vaskrs
Slovak: Vel'ka' Noc (The Great Night)
Ukranian: Paska

Half the time, those who condemn holy days don't take into account the fact that when they come to a Christian message board, those of us who celebrate them do so in primarily a religious context (in the life of Christ's Church). Anything else is secondary- and sometimes nonexistent. If you're condemning secularization of holy days, then I'm there with you. I condemn every single church out there that neglects to celebrate them so the people can go do their secular thing at home instead. However, if you're condemning holy days out of ignorance as to what they are and what they entail, then you've lost me.

Sorry, you're losing me a little now. So, Pascha is Easter? I just looked up the dates of Pascha and Easter for 2016 and they're the same day.

 

[seashale76]

Sorry, you're losing me a little now. So, Pascha is Easter? I just looked up the dates of Pascha and Easter for 2016 and they're the same day.

You do realize that the same Ecumenical council that gave you your bible also set up how PASCHA was calculated? If you reject one, you must reject the other. Christians celebrate Pascha- which is the resurrection of Christ. If you do not, there's a real problem. God have mercy on you.

 

[christopheralan88]

And you're saying Israel is Judaism as it is now, right? If so, you're very off the mark.

I don't think that's what I'm saying. Some branches were broken off (Jews) to make room for new branches to be grafted in (Gentiles).

The part I take some issue with against mainstream Christianity is Romans 11:19-20. Natural branches (Jews) were broken off/cut off from Israel because of unbelief and wild branches (Gentiles) were grafted in because of belief/faith. Faith/belief though is shown by our works. And if the Law is forever and unchanged, then like Abraham in Genesis 15:6 and Genesis 26:5 as well as James 2:18, then we should be keeping the Law/Torah - not for our salvation but as evidence of our salvation.

 

[christopheralan88]

You do realize that the same Ecumenical council that gave you your bible also set up how PASCHA was calculated? If you reject one, you must reject the other. Christians celebrate Pascha- which is the resurrection of Christ. If you do not, there's a real problem. God have mercy on you.

So, Easter and Pascha are the same? I read the Jewish Bible, the "New Testament", and some extra-canonical books (ex: Jasher) (all with different degrees of authority of course) so I probably don't read exactly the same Bible put together by Nicea. But, even if I did read Nicea's Bible, I don't see why I would have to reject all of their decisions just because I potentially disagree with one.

 

[All4Christ]

Sorry, you're losing me a little now. So, Pascha is Easter? I just looked up the dates of Pascha and Easter for 2016 and they're the same day.

Pascha doesn't normally fall on the same day as Western Easter. I'm not sure how you got the same day for 2016 as Western Easter was on March 27th, and Pascha was on May 1st. It is the same for 2017, but as you can see below, it is not common to have the same date.

Date of Pascha in Coming Years | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

 

[blueberribear88]

Yes unless you're a Jehovah Witness

 

[tturt]

posted: What are your thoughts on Christians celebrating this day?

I refuse to look at things such as the wrong date, etc., and stop celebrating Christmas because the end result supports the current assault to stamp out our Christian voice. No reason to miss an opportunity to support the religious nature of Christmas both inside and outside our home and point to Yeshua.

 

[1John2:4]

Geohholmōnaþ or Iūlmōnaþ ("Yule-month") was the equivalent of December in the old English calendar. Just like how Ēosturmōnaþ ("Easter-month" – which Venerable Beade called the "Paschal Month") was the equivalent of April

That part was a joke, sorry I am from US not sure if humor is the same everywhere. Thanks for the lesson tho, I really appreciate your wisdom, that was not a joke it was a complament

 

[1John2:4]

Easter-month" – which Venerable Beade called the "Paschal Month") was the equivalent of April.

This is a whole other can of worms, let's open it when it gets closer to Passover another joke. Well sort of, I would love to discuss with you when it gets closer to Passover.

 

[1John2:4]

Geohholmōnaþ or Iūlmōnaþ ("Yule-month") was the equivalent of December in the old English calendar. Just like how Ēosturmōnaþ ("Easter-month" – which Venerable Beade called the "Paschal Month") was the equivalent of April.



But they rely upon outdated information that was popular in the 1800s.



And again, they had no problem with Chanukah.

Totally agree with Chanukah I'm reading Maccabees right now getting ready. Hey by the way thanks so much for the conversation, I love discussing this stuff with Brothers and Sisters. It makes me dig, and causes me to think sorry about all the grammatical errors it must be driving you nuts in your profession.

 

[1John2:4]

7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth (1 Corinthians 5:7-8).

Do you agree that Jesus is our Passover?

Right, Paul said keep the feast not move it to a new day separate from the Jews and add eggs and bunnies.

 

[1John2:4]

Lord have mercy on you. There is NOTHING pagan about Pascha involving goddesses or anything of the sort. It is blasphemy to insinuate it, honestly. The question I would ask in return is why a Christian wouldn't want to celebrate the resurrection of Christ?

You've been zapped by historical revisionist made up nonsense. In every language besides English and German- Easter is known as Pascha; and even in English- among Orthodox Christians anyway- we call it Pascha. Here's how we calculate it: Pascha is on the first Sunday after the first full moon (referred to as the Paschal Full Moon) following the vernal equinox. This was established at the First Council of Nicea in 325 so all Christians could celebrate Pascha at the same time. However, Christians celebrated Pascha from the beginning of the Church. Our entire religion revolves around the Incarnation and Resurrection of Christ. This is why we celebrate the Resurrection every Sunday and we commemorate the Resurrection with the moveable Feast of Feasts every year. This throwing that over for a Christless Jewish passover doesn't make any sense.

I also feel compelled to point out that in Latin it is referred to as Pascha or Festa Paschalia. Actually, so far as I know, English and German are the only two languages that refer to Easter/Ostern. In Orthodox Christianity- even in English- we never refer to the Feast of Feasts as Easter. It's alwaysPascha. In fact- it is officially known as/called: Holy Pascha- The Resurrection of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Just as an example of how other languages refer to the Resurrection:
Albanian: Pashket
Arabic: Aid ul-Fish
Bosnian: Uskrs/Vaskrs (literally 'resurrection')
Chinese: Fuhuo Jie (Resurrection Festival)
Croatian: Uskrs
Dutch: Pasen or Paasfeest
French: Paques
Greek: Paskha
Hebrew: Pascha
Italian: Pasqua
Japanese: Fukkatsu-sai (Resurrection Festival)
Persian: Pas'h
Polish: Pascha
Romanian: Paste
Russian: Paskha
Spanish: Pascua
Turkish: Paskalya
Serbian: Uskrs/Vaskrs
Slovak: Vel'ka' Noc (The Great Night)
Ukranian: Paska

Half the time, those who condemn holy days don't take into account the fact that when they come to a Christian message board, those of us who celebrate them do so in primarily a religious context (in the life of Christ's Church). Anything else is secondary- and sometimes nonexistent. If you're condemning secularization of holy days, then I'm there with you. I condemn every single church out there that neglects to celebrate them so the people can go do their secular thing at home instead. However, if you're condemning holy days out of ignorance as to what they are and what they entail, then you've lost me.

The question I have for you is why is Pasha not kept the same day as the Jewish Passover? Is that not the day He died, why change it? Study some early church history such as Council of Antioc, the anti-Semitic answer may surprise you.