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Are they with Jesus now or asleep until he raise them later?

Mark Quayle

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Does "body" in that context mean character? Our character will be perfected? Therefore in our new bodies, we will never sin, never be tempted, and never make any mistakes morally, ethically, theologically, biblically, etc.? Or does that passage only mean our physical bodies will be like Jesus but we will still have to work on having minds and hearts/character like Jesus? Or is that instantaneous? We will just suddenly have the mind, heart, and character of Jesus in a snap of a finger and forego all training and development?
We will be like him, but his Body is made of many members —all of them members of each other, yet each one its own individual "cell". And being like him, though complete, we will not be bored, but will find our temporal notions replaced. Thus, to consider 'improvement', 'growth', 'learning', 'activity', etc will not be what we think of now.

As just one consideration, we will be the Everlasting BRIDE of Christ. And as such, ever discovering infinite Christ, and —I tremble to think— him delighting in us, perhaps in some like fashion, though he knows us completely. As the Omnipotent, everything about him is always new —the only truly new— and we will be like him, not separately, but IN HIM.
 
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ViaCrucis

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just curious....what if there is no physical body remaining ie. in the case of cremation? Will the resurrection return all the ashes together and form the physical body again? Thanks for your answer. I'm just doubtful of the bodily resurrection in terms of the afterlife. I do believe Jesus and anyone else that was raised from the dead by the power of God was a true bodily resurrection, but I'm doubtful our resurrection is going to be a bodily one because if I'm not mistaken, our resurrection of the body is a new body, a spiritual/eternal body. So in other words, I won't be walking around in heaven looking the way I did on earth. People won't see me in the form I am in now. They will see me by my spiritual body.

Somewhat ironically, these were questions--and attacks--which the ancient Greco-Roman pagans often used against Christians. They mocked belief in resurrection for a number of reasons. Broadly they attacked the doctrine of the resurrection because the Greeks tended to view physical, material reality as "lesser" or "lower" than the "higher" spiritual reality. According the Plato the physical world is actually a poor imitation of the greater reality, and that human souls are in a sense "trapped" in physical bodies. Many believed in a form of reincarnation, that the soul would go through many bodily forms until it was finally freed from this bondage of physical matter. But the other ways resurrection was attacked was by saying that if the physical body decays, returning back to dust in the earth, then how can it be raised again? They would also ask--mockingly--that if someone who lost a limb, or had a deformity, or other major physical ailment, what would happen to them, would they be raised up only to have a missing limb, or deformity, or other ailment again?

The earliest defenders of the Christian faith, such as St. Justin Martyr, specifically wrote works addressing these questions, attacks, and answered them. Justin wrote a work, though the version we have today is incomplete, specifically defending the resurrection titled On the Resurrection. In which he argues, pretty simply, that why should it be a challenge for God to raise the body and restore it entirely, even if it has fully decayed or consumed in fire, or dissolved int he sea, etc. He argued that why should it be a challenge for God to raise up the body more glorious than it was before--what may have been lacking in present shall not be lacking in the resurrection. A person born without, or who lost their legs, or arms, etc should not be lacking in the resurrection, for the body shall be perfect and glorious. The body, in all its members, shall be raised up; but we should not assume the body will function as it once did--for it has a new life, a new kind of life, a transformed existence by the power of God.

Speaking from a modern understanding, we know that the atoms which make up our bodies today are not the same atoms that made up our body when we were born--and yet it's still our body, it's still us. As we grow older, we are exchanging atoms, and our cells are dying and new cells are being made. None of the matter that makes up ourselves is the same matter that we had when we were born, and yet we are still ourselves, this body is still our body, this flesh is still our flesh, it's still our bones, our blood, our sinews, etc. So even if in the resurrection our bodies having decayed and the material elements having decomposed and have gone on to feed trees, bugs, and are now in the animals that ate the leaves etc it is still our bodies which are raised. If we can still have our bodies be our bodies, even though we have exchanged all the material elements that make up our bodies over the course of our own mortal life many times, then it should not be a difficult thing for God to raise up this same body even though it be fully decayed or dissolved or burned to ashes. The body will be raised, and also transformed. Our flesh shall be raised up, but also glorified.

@Mark Quayle is right, in the resurrection we won't have bodies that are copies or imitations of this present body, but rather our present bodies are in a sense a pale reflection of the resurrection body. We won't be less solid, but more solid. We will bear the same kind of bodily flesh that our Lord Jesus has even now, His eternal, incorruptible, immortal flesh. So it is written that at His appearing He will change our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body (Philippians 3:21), we shall be like Him. For having shared in a death like His, we shall also share in His resurrection. For the Spirit of Him who raised up Christ shall also raise us up and give life to our mortal bodies (Romans 8:11). Having borne the likeness of the first man (Adam) so shall we bear the image of the New Adam, Christ (1 Corinthians 15:49).

Most of what the resurrection is about remains unknown and unknowable; but that it is resurrection--bodily resurrection--is known because God has promised it and Christ has proved it. For He is the firstfruits, what happened with Jesus shall happen also with us. He was raised up, not invisibly or with a non-physical body, but in His own flesh, for He showed the wounds of His passion in His hands and side, and He showed His disciples His body saying, "See, it is I, Myself, a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." The same that happened to our Lord Jesus shall happen to us--that is the through-line of the entire New Testament when it speaks of our future hope: Resurrection, the dead shall rise.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timothyu

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if I'm not mistaken, our resurrection of the body is a new body, a spiritual/eternal body. So in other words, I won't be walking around in heaven looking the way I did on earth.
Yes, the new 'body' must fit to be harmonious with the new Kingdom that comes down from Heaven. The Heavenly Host live in a spiritual world that they were made for. We were meant, after expulsion from the Garden, to live in what we comprehend around us now, but this shall disappear. The new body must then resemble, not what we have now, but the original body of Eden without planned factory obsolescence like now, where the spiritual and material world met, revived as the new Kingdom.
 
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Dan Perez

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Yes, the new 'body' must fit to be harmonious with the new Kingdom that comes down from Heaven. The Heavenly Host live in a spiritual world that they were made for. We were meant, after expulsion from the Garden, to live in what we comprehend around us now, but this shall disappear. The new body must then resemble, not what we have now, but the original body of Eden without planned factory obsolescence like now, where the spiritual and material world met, revived as the new Kingdom.
What Kingdom are you REFERRING TO , I missed it and 1 Cor 6:2 says we will GOVERN the UNIVERSE and in verse 3 we will GOVERN ANGELS .

dan p
 
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timothyu

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What Kingdom are you REFERRING TO
The one that Jesus says will come down from Heaven, the new world/universe replacing this one, where the spiritual and material combine as in the days of Eden. First God removed the rebellious elohim and their progeny from this world, then He will remove the adversarial spirit in the next
 
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Mark Quayle

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Everyone's soul sleeps after death, an actual sleep. They are not aware of what is happening on the earth. They're only aware of the dreams & nightmares they are having. Sometimes people will see apparitions of people who have passed away, but they are not the real person. The apparition is just an energetic imprint – it is not a soul. The energetic imprint is just one of the many evil spirits that inhabited the person while they were alive. Usually, these evil spirits detach from a soul's Aura immediately after death and are cast in to hell. “But it looked exactly like my grandmother!” That's because your grandmother had an “Evil spirit of grandmother”, just one of the many images your grandmother's soul was hiding under. If your grandmother was saved, and she died without unrepentant Sin, her Soul is resting in peace, dreaming of paradise, and nobody would be seeing her apparition.

The Heaven/Eternal Life and Lake of Fire parts happens after the resurrection of the dead, when all souls will wake up to judgment/exposure.

Evil doers --> Exposure/Humiliation/Shame and Lake of Fire

Righteous --> Life review, Closure and Eternal Life
You know this because....?
 
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d taylor

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just curious....what if there is no physical body remaining ie. in the case of cremation? Will the resurrection return all the ashes together and form the physical body again? Thanks for your answer. I'm just doubtful of the bodily resurrection in terms of the afterlife. I do believe Jesus and anyone else that was raised from the dead by the power of God was a true bodily resurrection, but I'm doubtful our resurrection is going to be a bodily one because if I'm not mistaken, our resurrection of the body is a new body, a spiritual/eternal body. So in other words, I won't be walking around in heaven looking the way I did on earth. People won't see me in the form I am in now. They will see me by my spiritual body.

A physical body returns to the dirt, i know now there are methods to preserve the body. So there is no different really from a body which has not been preserved than one left to return to the dirt.

You do know you do not spend eternity in heaven. But believers will spend eternity on the new physical earth God creates in their bodies which will fuction like we are now or like Adam was just without the weight of sin.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Christ told me, I'm serious.
Ooookay. Welp, we're done here....

Just a little advice. Even when you are sure of something of that nature, that the Bible doesn't say, and is not from Orthodoxy, maybe put it in terms of something like, "Think of it like this...."
 
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Mark Quayle

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This is false.

The New Jerusalem is 100% spiritual.

We are living in it RIGHT NOW. It is a wavelength and it's residents are God's Sheep and Christ Himself.

Only God's True sheep are aware of it's existence and can take part in it. Signs you are a resident of the New Jerusalem include fruits of the spirit and faith in God.

It is comparable to Mystery Babylon, which is also spiritual, and where a sinner's mind (mark of the Beast) resides, spiritually.

Teaching that God will transform this current world is setting people up to accept a New World Order by Satan and his minions.

Adam was created out of the Dust of the earth and was given the “Breath of Life” to make his flesh alive. The “breath of Life” is a phony knock-off of the Holy Spirit. We will be like the perfect SPIRIT male&female beings in the first account of creation after this world is no more, Spiritual Jerusalem wont just be a wavelength on this wretched earth, it will be our only reality.
You would benefit from a physics course, particularly focused on "wavelength" theory. You are using the term wrong here. Just saying.
 
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Davy

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Those who have passed away recently or long time ago.....are they with Jesus in heaven right now? Looking down on us?
Or are they still in sleep and will be raised when Jesus returns?

Often times we see in movies or hear in stories and interviews that so and so passed away and they are looking down at them from
heaven right now. Is there any biblical truth to this? Is my grandmother watching over me and protecting me or watching my football games
or....etc etc.
You can be assured... they are not literally sleeping in a casket in the ground.

In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, it is revealed that at flesh death, our flesh goes back to the earth elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Some scholars like to say that 'spirit' simply means like a life force only, and not the person. Yet per Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus Himself revealed for us to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but NOT our soul. That means our 'soul' (with spirit) continues on into Heaven to God and His Christ.

1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 also reveals continued awareness of life after flesh death, with Jesus at His resurrection preaching The Gospel to the "spirits in prison". That was actually prophecy from Isaiah 42:7 that Jesus would do that, and lead prisoners out of the darkness of the heavenly prison house.

Then 1 Peter 4 proclaims that for this reason the Gospel was also preached to the dead, so that they would be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Per Paul in 2 Corinthians 5, Paul showed that if our flesh body were suddenly dissolved, we still have a body not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens. Paul was pointing to our 'spirit' body that is inside our flesh body, and Eccl.12 reveals our spirit body and flesh body are held together by a "silver cord". If that "silver cord" is severed, then our spirit body is separated from our flesh, and our flesh goes back to the earth elements but our spirit goes back to God (into the heavenly dimension).

There's other Bible examples about one's soul parting their flesh, like with the child which the prophet Elijah laid upon and prayed for God to bring their soul back into their flesh body (1 Kings 17).

So where does the 'asleep in the ground' theory come from? Mostly from orthodox Judaism. The Jews appear to have a problem with understanding the difference between the Heavenly dimension of Spirit, and this earthly dimension of flesh (see John 3). I've heard some preachers on the false 'dead in the ground' theory even preach that the "spirits in prison" were not flesh people that had died back to the time of Noah, but were evil spirits, demons. And that Jesus didn't really preach The Gospel to them, but proclaimed His Victory over them. That's not what the Scripture says though, and I think this 1 Peter 4 Scripture by Peter was said later just to make sure we understood those "spirits in prison" were actually those that once lived on earth that had died...

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV
 
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Clare73

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Those who have passed away recently or long time ago.....are they with Jesus in heaven right now? Looking down on us?
Or are they still in sleep and will be raised when Jesus returns?

Often times we see in movies or hear in stories and interviews that so and so passed away and they are looking down at them from
heaven right now. Is there any biblical truth to this? Is my grandmother watching over me and protecting me or watching my football games
or....etc etc.
The spirits of the born again are with Jesus now.
Those spirits, which feel unclothed and naked without their physical bodies, will be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection at the end of time.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Christ used the term "wavelength" I'm just going off memory.
Now THAT one, I'd like to see! Thought I'd heard enough from you but now you got my curiosity up!
 
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Davy

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The spirits of the born again are with Jesus now.
Those spirits, which feel unclothed and naked without their physical bodies, will be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection at the end of time.
Note what Apostle Paul said about that...

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren,
that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
 
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Clare73

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Note what Apostle Paul said about that...
1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren,
that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
"Flesh and blood" being the earthly perishable, corrupt, weak, sinful body, as distinct from the resurrected immortal, incorruptible, powerful, sinless resurrection body (1 Co 15:42-44).
 
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Davy

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"Flesh and blood" being the earthly perishable, corrupt, weak, sinful body, as distinct from the resurrected immortal, incorruptible, powerful, sinless resurrection body (1 Co 15:42-44).
The resurrection type body Apostle Paul called a "spiritual body" there in 1 Corinthians 15. He also called it the "image of the heavenly".

It's a body that looks like the flesh we have today, and it can live upon this earth and even eat the food of the earth. It's a body like the angels have, which is what Paul's reference to it as the "image of the heavenly" is about. Forget all the stupid Hollywood movies about ghosts and spirits and junk, those are Satan's deceptions.

The problem many have with not understanding Paul on this is how it is so easy to get attached to the idea that one needs a flesh body to live upon this earth. Some have such a difficult time understanding it, they even think angels that appear on earth must put on some kind of flesh body just to appear in our earthly dimension, when that is not so, nor written anywhere in God's Word. Even God's Garden of Eden was once here upon this earth, and wherever God's Eden is, that is where God Himself is, and He has promised to return to live with us upon this earth in the world to come.

God created us each with a spirit, a soul, and placed it in a temporary flesh body for this present world. But in the world to come, we all will be done with flesh bodies. We will walk and live upon this earth in our "spiritual body". And per Isaiah, we will build houses and plant vineyards.
 
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Clare73

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The resurrection type body Apostle Paul called a "spiritual body" there in 1 Corinthians 15. He also called it the "image of the heavenly".
It's the resurrection body that Jesus has, which is a spiritual physical body.
It's a body that looks like the flesh we have today, and it can live upon this earth and even eat the food of the earth. It's a body like the angels have, which is what Paul's reference to it as the "image of the heavenly" is about. Forget all the stupid Hollywood movies about ghosts and spirits and junk, those are Satan's deceptions.

The problem many have with not understanding Paul on this is how it is so easy to get attached to the idea that one needs a flesh body to live upon this earth. Some have such a difficult time understanding it, they even think angels that appear on earth must put on some kind of flesh body just to appear in our earthly dimension, when that is not so, nor written anywhere in God's Word. Even God's Garden of Eden was once here upon this earth, and wherever God's Eden is, that is where God Himself is, and He has promised to return to live with us upon this earth in the world to come.

God created us each with a spirit, a soul, and placed it in a temporary flesh body for this present world. But in the world to come, we all will be done with flesh bodies. We will walk and live upon this earth in our "spiritual body". And per Isaiah, we will build houses and plant vineyards.
 
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Davy

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It's the resurrection body that Jesus has, which is a spiritual physical body.
But 'physical' only in the sense that it looks like flesh, feels like flesh, can eat earthly food, but is not of the flesh. Per 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 showed that Christ's raised flesh body was at some point "made a quickening spirit"...

1 Cor 15:44-47
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

Apostle Paul was given to understand more about the glorious body of the world to come than anyone else, yet many don't pay much attention to what he taught in that 1 Corinthians 15 chapter, but try to put their own spin on it.

And did you know, not everyone is raised from the dead on the day of Christ's future return? Those of us still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future return will simply be 'changed' to that "spiritual body", at the "twinkling of an eye", fast as one can blink. And per Paul in that same chapter, and per Jesus in John 5:28-29, the unjust also are raised to the resurrection body, and the wicked still alive on earth also will be changed to it like us. Paul revealed that too in that same 1 Corinthians 15 chapter.
 
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Clare73

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But 'physical' only in the sense that it looks like flesh, feels like flesh, can eat earthly food, but is not of the flesh.
"Flesh" is used two ways in the NT:
1) the natural human body (Jesus' resurrection body),
2) the sinful nature (flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God).

Likewise, in Paul's writing "spiritual" is not used to mean immaterial, non-physical, non-corporeal.
It is used to mean that of the Holy Spirit, not carnal (sin nature).

The resurrection body is a physical human body, but not with a sinful nature; i.e., it is a spiritual (sinless) physical body.
Per 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 showed that Christ's raised flesh body was at some point "made a quickening spirit"...

1 Cor 15:44-47
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

Apostle Paul was given to understand more about the glorious body of the world to come than anyone else, yet many don't pay much attention to what he taught in that 1 Corinthians 15 chapter, but try to put their own spin on it.

And did you know, not everyone is raised from the dead on the day of Christ's future return? Those of us still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future return will simply be 'changed' to that "spiritual body", at the "twinkling of an eye", fast as one can blink. And per Paul in that same chapter, and per Jesus in John 5:28-29, the unjust also are raised to the resurrection body, and the wicked still alive on earth also will be changed to it like us. Paul revealed that too in that same 1 Corinthians 15 chapter.
 
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