Are they saved?

[FreeGrace2]

Are you going to argue with Jesus and tell Him He lied?

How absurd. I fully explained what Jesus did, but you are free to go off the rails any time you feel the urge.

And by the way, it's not my theory, and it surely isn't unfounded. Accept Jesus and His truth while you have time.

I have accepted Jesus and EVERYTHING He taught, unlike yourself.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Sure. Go ahead and take a single verse totally out of context.

John 3:15,16, 18, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-27, 20:31 ALL say eternal life is on the basis of believing in Him.

But go ahead and keep trusting in your ability to keep the commandments. No one else can, according to Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16.

 

[EmSw]

How absurd. I fully explained what Jesus did, but you are free to go off the rails any time you feel the urge.

Believe me, I am safely on the rails. When Jesus says if we want to enter life, then keep the commandments, I totally, wholeheartedly believe Him.

I have accepted Jesus and EVERYTHING He taught, unlike yourself.

With your lips you may have accepted, but I wonder how one accepts in the heart, when he argues with someone else about keeping the commandments to enter life.

Sure. Go ahead and take a single verse totally out of context.

Jesus never said anything out of context. When He said something, He definitely meant it. That single verse has become a stumbling block to you.

John 3:15,16, 18, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-27, 20:31 ALL say eternal life is on the basis of believing in Him.

There' the problem; you don't believe Him. When He says to keep the commandment to enter life, you don't believe that. You believe only what you want to believe. If you genuinely believe Him, you would do everything He says without question.

But go ahead and keep trusting in your ability to keep the commandments. No one else can, according to Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16.

Since you can't keep His commandments, I assume you can't stop lying. John says if you don't keep His commandments you are a liar. Your words betray you and condemn you. And since John says if you don't keep His commandments, the truth is not in you, I will not believe a word you say.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believe me, I am safely on the rails.

You can believe any fantasy you want.

When Jesus says if we want to enter life, then keep the commandments, I totally, wholeheartedly believe Him.

Again, you are free to take any verse you choose and rip it out of its proper context and then twist the life out of it.

With your lips you may have accepted, but I wonder how one accepts in the heart, when he argues with someone else about keeping the commandments to enter life.

Both Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16 says NO ONE will be justified by keeping the Law.

But then, you've already noted your complete disdain for Paul and what he wrote.

Jesus never said anything out of context.

How absurd. I never said He did. I SAID you have taken 1 verse out of context. Are you unable to comprehend that?

When He said something, He definitely meant it. That single verse has become a stumbling block to you.

No, not at all. I have read and comprehended the entire context, unlike yourself, so I understand exactly what Jesus did. And what He did was show the man that he wasn't keeping the commandments.

In fact, Jesus opening statement only shows that a perfect (good) person can keep all the commandments all the time. Which is Jesus Christ. No one else.

Rom 3:9 and 23 says that everyone sins. So that eliminates everyone from being able to keep the commandments. Period.

But you've rejected these verses in favor of your own erroneous opinions.

There' the problem; you don't believe Him.

This is delusional. I absolutely do believe Him, and I absolutely DON'T believe you.

Esp since you've equated Jesus' sacrifice on the cross as some grotesque pagan human sacrifice. Blasphemous.

When He says to keep the commandment to enter life, you don't believe that.

Here's what I believe. Take notes this time. If anyone CAN keep the commandments, they are perfect (good), which Jesus pointed out. And I know that no human being is good. Rom 3:9 and 23.

You believe only what you want to believe.

Delusional again. I believe everything that the Bible says. Unlike yourself.

If you genuinely believe Him, you would do everything He says without question.

Who said I don't do this? Why are you acting all omniscient and all? Do you have some kind of god complex?

Since you can't keep His commandments, I assume you can't stop lying.

You are free to assume anything you desire. I know what the Bible says; all are sinners, which means no one can keep the commandments.

John says if you don't keep His commandments you are a liar. Your words betray you and condemn you. And since John says if you don't keep His commandments, the truth is not in you, I will not believe a word you say.

It's all your posts that condemn you.

 

[Bay123]

Not at all. Have you heard the word "pre-evangelism" before? That's what Jesus opened the conversation with.

The man called Jesus "good" and Jesus pointed out that no one is good except God. That would mean that the man himself was not good, although it seems from what he said that he thought he was keeping the Law, and expected to go to heaven because of it. That's why Jesus had to "break the ice" with him at his own level. He thought being 'good' would earn him heaven.

Your hermeneutics violates so many good practices that it would take too long in this format to cover.

I do not know why you cannot just listen to what Jesus clearly and plainly answered when, in the only place in scripture, God was clearly and plainly asked how to be saved.

Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Here's the deal. A person would have to be perfect (good) by keeping ALL of the Law in order to go to heaven. But think of what that would mean; they wouldn't need Christ to die for their sins, because they wouldn't have any.

God doesn't says this. Men do, but not God. In fact, God states the opposite.

Matthew 5 :19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.


Your hermeneutics are so disjointed I am going to assume that it is in your Zeal to answer to protect your errored beliefs that you are just slinging versus out there. You need to slow down and examine what your really believe and what Jesus really teaches, because there is a vast distance between the two.

Good luck.

 

[EmSw]

Here's what I believe. Take notes this time. If anyone CAN keep the commandments, they are perfect (good), which Jesus pointed out. And I know that no human being is good. Rom 3:9 and 23.

You don't even know what Matthew 19:17 says. It absolutely DOES NOT say 'if anyone CAN keep the commandments, they are perfect (good)'. How can you claim you know the context when you can't even get the words right?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your hermeneutics violates so many good practices that it would take too long in this format to cover.

Your hermeneutics are so disjointed I am going to assume that it is in your Zeal to answer to protect your errored beliefs that you are just slinging versus out there.

Always the easy answer when you really can't prove.

You need to slow down and examine what your really believe and what Jesus really teaches, because there is a vast distance between the two.
Good luck.

Nonsense. If keeping the law or commandments gets one into heaven, then why did Jesus sacrifice Himself on a cross and pay for the sins of mankind?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You don't even know what Matthew 19:17 says. It absolutely DOES NOT say 'if anyone CAN keep the commandments, they are perfect (good)'. How can you claim you know the context when you can't even get the words right?

I was explaining what Jesus meant by what He said. Were my words too big for you to grasp?

But, just for chuckles, let's look at the passage:

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

So, we see the man asks about "what good thing" to get eternal life. And Jesus answers, "there is only One who is good", an obvious reference to God alone.

What Jesus said then was how to have eternal life apart from God's plan, whether you can grasp that or not.

But since you refuse to accept what Paul wrote in Rom 3:9-11, and 20, there is no use talking to you.

No human being can keep the law and receive eternal life. The ONLY WAY is by faith in Christ, which is what Paul said in Rom 3:22.

 

[EmSw]

I was explaining what Jesus meant by what He said. Were my words too big for you to grasp?

That's not what Jesus explained. Your explanation is not Jesus' explanation.

But, just for chuckles, let's look at the passage:

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Yes, Jesus said there is only One Who is good, and then tells him, 'If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.' Jesus settled whatever needed to be said about good, as God is only good. Then Jesus tells the man, how to enter life.

So, we see the man asks about "what good thing" to get eternal life. And Jesus answers, "there is only One who is good", an obvious reference to God alone.

What Jesus said then was how to have eternal life apart from God's plan, whether you can grasp that or not.

Here again, you are explaining something which wasn't in the text. Nothing is said about having eternal life 'apart from God's plan'. You have to add that or your explanation is false.

But since you refuse to accept what Paul wrote in Rom 3:9-11, and 20, there is no use talking to you.

No human being can keep the law and receive eternal life. The ONLY WAY is by faith in Christ, which is what Paul said in Rom 3:22.

Since you refuse to accept what Jesus said, there is no use talking to you.

The OT saints are sure glad what you say is false. Many, many were saved keeping the law.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's not what Jesus explained. Your explanation is not Jesus' explanation.

This just proves, and proves very clearly, that you never moved past Jesus' opening remarks. Because what I explained is exactly what He did. Those who actually read the whole account know that.

Yes, Jesus said there is only One Who is good, and then tells him, 'If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.'

Knowing all the while, that no human being can be good enough to earn eternal life.

The Bible, which is God's Word, says all are sinners and there are NONE GOOD, in Rom 3:9-11, 23. Are you disagreeing with the Bible?

Jesus settled whatever needed to be said about good, as God is only good. Then Jesus tells the man, how to enter life.

No, if one is good. That's the only way to enter life apart from faith in Him.

Here again, you are explaining something which wasn't in the text. Nothing is said about having eternal life 'apart from God's plan'. You have to add that or your explanation is false.

Do you really not grasp what an explanation is? sheesh.

Since you refuse to accept what Jesus said, there is no use talking to you.

Do you believe what Jesus said here?

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

All 5 of these verses speaks about having eternal life. How many of these 5 verses mentions anything about keeping commandments or the law, or about being good?

And yet you say you believe Jesus. Sure.

The OT saints are sure glad what you say is false. Many, many were saved keeping the law.

The Bible says no one is saved (justified) by keeping the law.

Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Rom 3:22 - This righteousness is given through faith inJesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Rom 3:24 - and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

I invite you to explain from 3:24 exactly how Jesus brought redemption to mankind.

Rom 3:25 - and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:26 - he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:28 - For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

So, there are no such thing as "OT saints" who believe what you do. None of them are in heaven today. They are waiting to be cast into the lake of fire because they never received the free gift of eternal life that is by faith in Christ.

 

[EmSw]

This just proves, and proves very clearly, that you never moved past Jesus' opening remarks. Because what I explained is exactly what He did. Those who actually read the whole account know that.


Knowing all the while, that no human being can be good enough to earn eternal life.

The Bible, which is God's Word, says all are sinners and there are NONE GOOD, in Rom 3:9-11, 23. Are you disagreeing with the Bible?


No, if one is good. That's the only way to enter life apart from faith in Him.


Do you really not grasp what an explanation is? sheesh.


Do you believe what Jesus said here?

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

All 5 of these verses speaks about having eternal life. How many of these 5 verses mentions anything about keeping commandments or the law, or about being good?

And yet you say you believe Jesus. Sure.

The Bible says no one is saved (justified) by keeping the law.

Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Rom 3:22 - This righteousness is given through faith inJesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Rom 3:24 - and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

I invite you to explain from 3:24 exactly how Jesus brought redemption to mankind.

Rom 3:25 - and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Rom 3:26 - he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:28 - For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

So you say there was no righteousness under the law, right? I'm sure you'll throw Romans 3:20 at me. However, Paul did say there was righteousness which is in the law.

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Which one are you going to believe? Do you believe Paul was blameless touching the righteousness in the law? Or, did Paul err in Philippians? Or, maybe he erred in Romans.

Surely, you can read that Paul said there was a righteousness in the law, and that he said he was blameless touching that righteousness. Do you think being blameless means he didn't keep the law?

So, there are no such thing as "OT saints" who believe what you do. None of them are in heaven today. They are waiting to be cast into the lake of fire because they never received the free gift of eternal life that is by faith in Christ.

What a statement! There was no faith in Christ for salvation in the OT. Apparently you don't believe Moses is in Heaven; you think he is awaiting his turn to be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Gr8Grace]

So you say there was no righteousness under the law, right? I'm sure you'll throw Romans 3:20 at me. However, Paul did say there was righteousness which is in the law.

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Which one are you going to believe? Do you believe Paul was blameless touching the righteousness in the law? Or, did Paul err in Philippians? Or, maybe he erred in Romans.

Surely, you can read that Paul said there was a righteousness in the law, and that he said he was blameless touching that righteousness. Do you think being blameless means he didn't keep the law?

OH, So now you can go to Paul and use him as an authority? Your borderline nuts to anyone that follows what you post. Geesh.

 

[EmSw]

OH, So now you can go to Paul and use him as an authority? Your borderline nuts to anyone that follows what you post. Geesh.

I'm only showing the ones seeking how Paul contradicted himself.

Since you are now involved, I'll ask you, did Paul say there was no righteousness in the law, or did he say there was righteousness in the law? Care to answer?

This nut is going to be unsavory to your taste.

 

[EmSw]

OH, So now you can go to Paul and use him as an authority? Your borderline nuts to anyone that follows what you post. Geesh.

And while we are at it, I would love to hear your response to what Jesus said in Luke 16.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Here are some questions for you -
1. Was the rich man in hell?
2. Where was Lazarus? in hell?
3. What did the rich man request of Abraham?
4. What did Abraham tell Lazarus?
5. Do you read anywhere that Abraham said to only believe in Jesus to keep from going to hell?
6. Did you notice that no one would be persuaded to repent if one rose from the dead?
7. Did you notice Abraham told Lazarus that they were to hear Moses and the prophets?
8. Do you think Jesus lied in telling this story?
9 Do you believe Jesus that Moses and the prophets would keep one out of the torment of hell?

I would love to hear your answers. And please do not add anything not written.

 

[EmSw]

I'm only showing the ones seeking how Paul contradicted himself.

Since you are now involved, I'll ask you, did Paul say there was no righteousness in the law, or did he say there was righteousness in the law? Care to answer?

This nut is going to be unsavory to your taste.

I've been waiting for FG2 to answer, but I see he is taking his sweet time.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I'm only showing the ones seeking how Paul contradicted himself.

Uhm, I know. I have been reading your blasphemous posts.

 

[Gr8Grace]

And while we are at it, I would love to hear your response to what Jesus said in Luke 16.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Here are some questions for you -
1. Was the rich man in hell?
2. Where was Lazarus? in hell?
3. What did the rich man request of Abraham?
4. What did Abraham tell Lazarus?
5. Do you read anywhere that Abraham said to only believe in Jesus to keep from going to hell?
6. Did you notice that no one would be persuaded to repent if one rose from the dead?
7. Did you notice Abraham told Lazarus that they were to hear Moses and the prophets?
8. Do you think Jesus lied in telling this story?
9 Do you believe Jesus that Moses and the prophets would keep one out of the torment of hell?

I would love to hear your answers. And please do not add anything not written.

Oh, You have had the answers. What FreeGrace has told you.......I can't add anything.

 

[EmSw]

But go ahead and keep trusting in your ability to keep the commandments. No one else can, according to Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16.

Better to trust Jesus than man's words of unbelief. Here's a little more to keeping His commandments to live.

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

What more needs to be said?

The initial question - '...what shall I do to inherit eternal life?'

Jesus' answer - 'What is written in the law? how readest thou?'

Lawyer's response - 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.'

Jesus' response - 'Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.'

Don't let Jesus' words come back to haunt you. Answer honestly, and you will know how to inherit eternal life.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I've been waiting for FG2 to answer, but I see he is taking his sweet time.

He's answered you numerous times...........You just don't like it.

 

[EmSw]

Uhm, I know. I have been reading your blasphemous posts.

Are they blasphemous posts just because they don't please you?

 

[EmSw]

Oh, You have had the answers. What FreeGrace has told you.......I can't add anything.

FG2 has said nothing about Lazarus and the rich man.

And now it seems you don't want to answer.