Are they saved?

[FreeGrace2]

"quite pathetic" "stupid comment" "resort to this kind of nonsense."

The above is why this interaction is not fruitful.

At this point, there cannot be any fruit. You simply are not willing to interact with any of my points, nor answering questions, nor providing any explanations. And what I noted above is accurate.

God bless you, and may you find love and peace as you go on you way.

Once again, no interaction with my points. You've been critical of my posts, but have done nothing to explain yourself or explain how and why my posts are inaccurate.

Until you honestly face John 10:28, which is a statement about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life, you are in direct opposition to the Savior.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Are we doomed to who we are? Sheep or goats?

What kind of question is this? Every human being has the gift of eternal life waiting for them, if they will only believe the gospel, which is who Jesus is, and what He did on their behalf. Otherwise, they will be cast into the lake of fire.

Maybe we should ask are we happy as servants or leaders, in control and just willing To meet a need.

No, maybe we should ask ourselves why we are in direct opposition to the Savior's clear words.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Jesus chose the apostles. Jesus chooses us.
Man is lost in sin, no one chooses God, all have turned away.

I have met many people, who simply are not interested in Jesus.
I have met some real imposters who claim to know Jesus and clearly do not.
Some have a revelation and follow with a heart of love, while others play around
and then fall away.

So the offer and door has always been open for all, but they do not walk it.
Take this discussion here as compared with the house group I attended tonight.
One would consider me a hypocrite and not saved, while the other a man of God
having fellowship with the most High. You could not get such different positions.
And the irony is the words are the same.

On an observation note, when I write there is no understanding on the part of
another party, telling me I have not agreed with them, when they have no ability
to see what I am saying is what it is. I have learnt in Gods grace to know this
is not an intellectual issue were putting ideas in another frame will help, so
Praise the Lord for His grace and salvation, Amen.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus chose the apostles. Jesus chooses us.

Do you know what Jesus chooses us for?

On an observation note, when I write there is no understanding on the part of
another party, telling me I have not agreed with them, when they have no ability
to see what I am saying is what it is.

This has never been about me, or not agreeing with me. It's directly about not agreeing with Jesus, who said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

Those who think that salvation can be lost do not agree with Jesus. Plain and simple.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Two simple observations
1. People who have been hurt look for others to blame
2. If one is being blamed and anger is the driving force, that is what one will feel

I believe in security of salvation, because of the cross I know Jesus loves me.
Because I love Jesus and His people I know I am His.

So when Jesus says His sheep know His voice, listen to Him and follow, this is
not a promise so much as a statement of fact.

When Jesus says they will not perish, He will keep them to eternal life, He is
declaring His loving commitment to His people.

It has taken me some time and today I realise the problem. When one comes to
share one shares who one is, everything. So whatever ones heart is full of that
is what overflows.

A whole movement has arisen angry, hurt, feeling they have been disowned and
unfairly cast out, caught trying to buy their way into heaven, and when this failed
and they came back to some kind of faith, blamed those who they were with before
for their deception and failure and saying they are the most evil people on the planet.

Their mission is to drive these legalists and hypocrites out of the church and wage
war on them. ( Some have said this, and preached it )

So if you identify with this evil group in their eyes, anger, hatred, bitterness, betrayal
is their approach. And in a strange kind of way, they create what they bring.
Because this is what their hearts of full of. And it hurts to interact with them,
because as a loving faithful follow of Jesus, they will disown ones faith, attempt to
tear it down in every way possible, and wonder why you do not fold and become
like them. But the Kingdom of Heaven is based on love and sharing, the light of
life, good works shared openly with all.

One brother who they respect said real faith is split between those who have it and
those who go to church. They disown the sermon on the mount and any kind of
assent to morality, and are totally blind to the fact all they know of the faith comes
through the church as it is the body of Christ. So while they claim to be following Jesus,
they have become His enemy.

Now some in this group are hurt sheep, some are goats looking for attention and some
wolves.

The answer to their state, is to learn forgiveness, and repentance, forgive those
who have hurt them and realise we are called to love and be a loving functional body
of believers. Until we are cleansed, pure and holy with only Praise to our Lord on
our lips, how can we see correctly to help others.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Testimony

What testifies to the deep hurt and harm that is present, is how few of this group stand up and say there is value in being part of the body, serving and ministering one with another, learning to love and follow our Lord Jesus Christ.

I know personally how my idealism, my experience of Jesus got a dull response from fellow believers. I know how I was rejected, judged, ignored, thought of as dangerous, yet I just shared the over powering love Jesus are wrought in my soul. I knew also I had still much to learn before I could share properly.

And what does Jesus tell us to do everyday.
Forgive me as I forgive those who trespass against me.

Jesus was betrayed by one of His closest friends, Judas, and Jesus knew it would happen.
He was neither bitter or angry, but knew the trauma it would cause Judas when he understood what he had done.

So when we go to church, and are with the people of the Lord, in this very place a redeemed sinners we need to learn forgiveness and having a big heart. Now if we fail at this, it is not the churches fault, but our own in not listening to and following Jesus and His words.

I know how deep the hurt can go, and disappointment. But it is always the same, we need to get right with the Lord and we will see how things really are.

Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Col 3:13

 

[Rescued One]

That's what I was wondering. Is someone really destined to hell for believing they had to do good works along with believing to attain salvation instead of faith alone?

If you love Him, you will be keeping His commandments.

If you don't believe His blood was enough to purchase your salvation, you don't have salvation.

Galatians 3
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Salvation is the result of faith given by God. Works are the result of salvation.

 

[Bay123]

What kind of question is this? Every human being has the gift of eternal life waiting for them, if they will only believe the gospel, which is who Jesus is, and what He did on their behalf. Otherwise, they will be cast into the lake of fire.


No, maybe we should ask ourselves why we are in direct opposition to the Savior's clear words.

Which words exactly?

These words?

Luke 10:25-28

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

All these other conditions seem to be man made conventions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"What kind of question is this? Every human being has the gift of eternal life waiting for them, if they will only believe the gospel, which is who Jesus is, and what He did on their behalf. Otherwise, they will be cast into the lake of fire.

No, maybe we should ask ourselves why we are in direct opposition to the Savior's clear words."

Which words exactly?

John 10:28. "I give them (believers - 10:9) eternal life (when they believe; Jn 5:24, 6:47, 1 Jn 5:11, 13) and they shall NEVER PERISH."

These words?

Luke 10:25-28

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

All these other conditions seem to be man made conventions.

What other conditions are you referring to?

 

[Bay123]

I said:
"What kind of question is this? Every human being has the gift of eternal life waiting for them, if they will only believe the gospel, which is who Jesus is, and what He did on their behalf. Otherwise, they will be cast into the lake of fire.

No, maybe we should ask ourselves why we are in direct opposition to the Savior's clear words."

John 10:28. "I give them (believers - 10:9) eternal life (when they believe; Jn 5:24, 6:47, 1 Jn 5:11, 13) and they shall NEVER PERISH."


What other conditions are you referring to?

John 10:28 is referring to those to whom Jesus has judged, the saved and the damned.

Luke tells us what Christ said when he was asked "how one has to do to be saved. "

I am not sure what your last quest is reffering to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 10:28 is referring to those to whom Jesus has judged, the saved and the damned.

It seems that you didn't read all of ch 10. The context for who His sheep are is found in v.9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The argument that eternal life is only given at "the judgment" is refuted, and soundly, by Jesus' own words in these 2 verses:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6;47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

And 2 verses from the Apostle John:

1 John 5-
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

So, from these 4 verses, we KNOW that current possession of eternal life is for those who have believed. This clearly indicates that Jesus gives this gift the MOMENT that one believes in Him for it. There is no delay in receiving the gift.

So, John 10:28 applies the MOMENT one believes. They shall never perish.

Luke tells us what Christ said when he was asked "how one has to do to be saved. "

And what was His answer?

I am not sure what your last quest is reffering to.

I was asking based on your comment:
"All these other conditions seem to be man made conventions."

Just go back and read post #129 and the context is clear.

 

[Bay123]

It seems that you didn't read all of ch 10. The context for who His sheep are is found in v.9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The argument that eternal life is only given at "the judgment" is refuted, and soundly, by Jesus' own words in these 2 verses:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6;47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

And 2 verses from the Apostle John:

1 John 5-
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

So are you saying that Jesus was mistaken when he answered the lawyer?

 

[EmSw]

So are you saying that Jesus was mistaken when he answered the lawyer?

Many on here think Jesus was lying to the lawyer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So are you saying that Jesus was mistaken when he answered the lawyer?

Not at all. Have you heard the word "pre-evangelism" before? That's what Jesus opened the conversation with.

The man called Jesus "good" and Jesus pointed out that no one is good except God. That would mean that the man himself was not good, although it seems from what he said that he thought he was keeping the Law, and expected to go to heaven because of it. That's why Jesus had to "break the ice" with him at his own level. He thought being 'good' would earn him heaven.

Here's the deal. A person would have to be perfect (good) by keeping ALL of the Law in order to go to heaven. But think of what that would mean; they wouldn't need Christ to die for their sins, because they wouldn't have any.

Yet, the Bible is clear that Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. 2 Cor 5:14,15, Heb 2:9, 1 John 2:2

So after the man listed all the commandments that he thought he was keeping, Jesus nailed him on the very first commandment. Instead of loving God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength, what did he love the most? Let's let the context speak:

Matt 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

So, how did the man react to what Jesus said?
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

So, what Jesus did was demonstrate to the man that he wasn't even keeping the first commandment, which is the greatest commandment.

We know that what Jesus opened the conversation with cannot be evangelization because of what the Bible says:
Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Gal 2:16 - know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Many on here think Jesus was lying to the lawyer.

And they would be stupid. Really stupid.

btw, can you point out some of those "many" that you speak so loosely about?

 

[EmSw]

And they would be stupid. Really stupid.

btw, can you point out some of those "many" that you speak so loosely about?

Just find who doesn't believe Jesus when said, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments', and you will know.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Just find who doesn't believe Jesus when said, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments', and you will know.

No, I asked you to back up your loose claim. Can you do that?

I thought not.

 

[EmSw]

No, I asked you to back up your loose claim. Can you do that?

I thought not.

I don't have to prove anything to you. The Bible says all you need to know. If you choose not to enter life they way Jesus says, that's on you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't have to prove anything to you. The Bible says all you need to know. If you choose not to enter life they way Jesus says, that's on you.

Actually, you CAN'T prove anything to me. Except your blasphemous ideas.

Good luck with your unfounded theory about how to enter life. You've need it.

Not that it will help.

Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16 REFUTE your claims directly.

 

[EmSw]

Actually, you CAN'T prove anything to me. Except your blasphemous ideas.

Good luck with your unfounded theory about how to enter life. You've need it.

Not that it will help.

Rom 3:20 and Gal 2:16 REFUTE your claims directly.

Are you going to argue with Jesus and tell Him He lied?

And by the way, it's not my theory, and it surely isn't unfounded. Accept Jesus and His truth while you have time.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.