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How did this person become 'good, virtuous, righteous and holy' to then live such a life,Talking about a case whereby a person has lived a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy life by obeying the Word of God and doing God's Will for a Long time. It is Impossible for this person to fall into sin by temptation or trial at the end of a holy life filled and sanctified with the Holy Graces of God. The person will not fall short at the end.
How did this person become 'good, virtuous, righteous and holy' to then live such a life,
since
everyone today is born dead in sin and trespasses, subject to the prince of the power of the air (the devil) ?
If you mean the answer is there ^^^^^^^^^^Talking about a case whereby a person has lived a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy life by obeying the Word of God and doing God's Will for a Long time.
Why you ask me a question whereby my answer is already there?
If you mean the answer is there ^^^^^^^^^^
then it is wrong according to God's Word.
Again, that is not the subject, but all those sins are forgivable.
If you are asking if those who do those things would maker it to heaven if they did it, and didn't repent in time or before they died, it would all depend on God and the circumstance surrounding it. I gave a scenario where I thought he may not condemn a man. Ongoing drunkenness for instance did not fit into what I was claiming, so has nothing to do with the subject.
Once again, I'm talking about a man/woman who was generally very good all their life, and even that is just a for instance..there are all types of situations where your view of things may not be the way it is. If those people you mention were doing that as a lifestyle and die in those sins, they would likely be up the creek, but if they did it once and the rest of their life was good and circumstance had it where they didn't get to repent before they died but God knew full well they would have, that is an example of where I feel he might just let them into the Kingdom.
God would be fair, and he is better at that than us.
First, you make it sound like God is not in control of death. As if something in this world was out of His control. I am sorry to inform you. God is Sovereign! God is in control!
For example: You probably think there is an exception to the rule of lying.
How did I make it sound like that? Of course he's in control of death, he's in control of everything. At least in the past and very likely now, he may still choose to personally take someone out, but he made everyone to die, so whether he does that or not, he is certainly in control of it. You are basically changing the subject.
Kenny'sID said:There are no exceptions to any rule, sin is sin, but there is extenuating circumstance that clearly you refuse to consider. You keep gong on about worse case scenarios, when I made it clear and even corrected you on that.
Kenny'sID said:Also the, "if God does it for one, he has to do it for another" again my point is, yes, break your rule that you somehow you think God can't break. Will you allow God to be fair and do right by people or hold him to your rule? You keep repeating that rule, and it's as if you feel just because the rule exists, it has to be applied in all cases.
Kenny'sID said:The rest of your post? like telling me protecting people in war is ok, that's a given, and has nothing to do with the subject, so I just stopped reading there. You aren't going to get that or other things with how your thought process works, and it's pretty evident you can't help that so, it's OK...
Kenny'sID said:I will add one more thing before I drop it. There are likely many in all Christians life, but for the sake of this argument, lets just say, what about that one sin that you didn't know was sin, or that one sin so small you just didn't consider asking forgiveness for it, or it slipped your mind, or are you going to tell me that couldn't possibly happen? Of course it could and likely has, I'll even go to the extreme of saying it HAS happened. With your way of thinking, you are going to Hell for that because God makes no acceptations.
Kenny'sID said:Reap what you have sown my friend, you sowed the strict rule, so certainly it will pertain to you, right? Doesn't seem like such a terrible thing to me, that probably most of the Christians on the planet that have fed the poor, done unto others and all that Jesus required of them, missed a few sins, but if God made an exception for you/them, then he'd have to do it for everyone, and we can't have that....right? So now, because of your way of thinking, most if not all the so-called saved are going to Hell, that is unless God can make some exceptions.
Kenny'sID said:I'm 100% sure he does and he will, and if he does it for one, he WILL do it for everyone in spite of this rule you think God has to force himself to adhere to..
Well, before you said you needed verses to show that God is the taker of life. I have provided them (Which gives Biblical weight to my my side of the argument). For the Lord being the holder of the keys of death and hell is not a complete changing of the subject but it plays into our topic of discussion here. How so? Stop and think for a moment. If death was something outside of God's control, then it would mean death would be accidental whereby it would play into your thinking that God would have to be sympathetic of making an exception for a person's unrepentant sins that lead to the second death (When in the reality it would be a compromise on God's standard of morality or goodness). So seeing God is in control of how a person dies, and death is no accident, there is no excuse to ignore Scripture on repentance and righteous living as a part of upholding God's standard of goodness or morality in relation to a person's good standing with God.
I must have missed your post. I have been a little busy lately. Please provide me with specific post #'s you believe you have made such extenuating circumstances.
However, lets just take a look at a couple of sins as an example. Is there an extenuating circumstance in murdering someone? I am not talking about self defense out of some impulse reaction (Which by the way God would give a person time to repent of such a sin if the Lord knew they were penitent). I am talking about planning such a sin. Is there an extenuating circumstance for that? How about cheating on one's spouse? Is that something that God would just let slide? How about leading children into sin? What did Jesus say would happen if one were to do that? Is there an extenuating circumstance for that, too?
The problem is that you have not offered any case in the New Testament where a sin that leads unto the Second Death (i.e. the Lake of Fire) can be committed and not repented of before one dies (With the thinking one is still saved). In other words, you are making a case based on smoke and mirrors with no Scriptural support. I prefer to stick to exactly what Scripture says. Why? Because it is the safer play. For if I am right and you wrong, you are going to have to answer to God for teaching others that you can bend His Commands or Laws or not take them as seriously (If a person can trick themselves into thinking their sin is an extenuating circumstance).
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Please explain.
No. As I stated before, God convicts His people of their sins so as to get them to repent. If that does not work, then He will chastise them if they are sons and not bastards. I mean, stop and think about that for a moment. What is your understanding between the difference between a son and a bastard as spoken about in Scripture? (See Hebrews 12:8).
Scripture says God is not willing that ANY should perish but all should come to repentance. This means, there is no accidental deaths (where a person could not repent in time). For God gives space or time for man to repent of His sins. There is no case where man is going to be without excuse before God in regards to unrepentant sin.
Okay. I want you to stop and think for a moment. At what Judgment does Christ tell certain believers He never knew them (as mentioned in Matthew 7)?
I believe it is at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
(2 Corinthians 5:9-11).
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:12).
In Revelation 22:12, Jesus says, “Look, I am Coming Soon, bringing MY REWARD with me to REPAY all people according to their DEEDS."
In Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, Solomon says, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, For this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring EVERY WORK into JUDGMENT, including EVERY SECRET THING, whether GOOD or EVIL."
What happens as the result of the Judgment Seat of Christ?
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Matthew 13:41-42).
What kind of exceptions are you talking about? What sins can Christians commit with God making an exception to it? Please provide Scripture (Along with real world examples). Thank you.
I did not make up the Commands in the Bible and the consequences that are attached in not obeying them. I did not make up repentance, either. I am only going by what God's Word says; And it makes no mention of extenuating circumstances as you suggest.
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I will add one more thing before I drop it. There are likely many in all Christians life, but for the sake of this argument, lets just say, what about that one sin that you didn't know was sin, or that one sin so small you just didn't consider asking forgiveness for it, or it slipped your mind, or are you going to tell me that couldn't possibly happen? Of course it could and likely has, I'll even go to the extreme of saying it HAS happened. With your way of thinking, you are going to Hell for that because God makes no acceptations. Reap what you have sown my friend, you sowed the strict rule, so certainly it will pertain to you, right? Doesn't seem like such a terrible thing to me, that probably most of the Christians on the planet that have fed the poor, done unto others and all that Jesus required of them, missed a few sins, but if God made an exception for you/them, then he'd have to do it for everyone, and we can't have that....right? So now, because of your way of thinking, most if not all the so-called saved are going to Hell, that is unless God can make some exceptions.
No, you read my posts, I could tell by your replies, no need for me to repeat them, but they are still on the thread for the viewing if you like.
I pretty well made my point with the following, so think I'll leave it at that.
Jason, your view of God doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for mercy and sounds more than a bit legalistic. Almost all Christians who have lived have probably committed sins they were not aware of. If not sinning were the standard by which God judges us, we are all in big trouble.
Why would God allow His people to get away with doing evil?
Answer 1: There's no such thing as getting away with evil. There is just judgement of all sin. Sin is judged at the cross. To carnal thinking, it seems like getting away with it, but it is not. If we read scripture, we understand that when we sin as believers we do not get away with it. God sees it. God judges it at the cross.
Razare said:Answer 2: In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure. - Genesis 15:16
Abraham was not given the promise land immediately, because the nations that dwelled there had not sinned enough for God to judge. God is patient. God doesn't immediately judge. He is merciful and patient, that nations and men should repent.
If God judged all sin immediately as people expect, he would have had to kill Adam dead the second he sinned, and sent him to eternal judgement. God doesn't do that!
Razare said:Answer 3: If you only focus on how Christians sin and do evil, you are thinking like the devil thinks. If you're only looking at the bad, you will only find the bad.
Razare said:Had you considered Isaac Newton, the father of science was a Christian? So then... all medical advancements that save lives, can be sourced back to Christianity, since applying scientific inquiry to medicine is ultimately why medicine exists.
And why did Christianity affect Isaac's thinking? Because in Christianity, we understand that God wrote divine laws and natural laws. And these laws actually correlate to reality to the point, you would go looking to see them in action!
So that God wrote a law to govern physical movement of objects, would be a byproduct of Christian-oriented thinking. And then we must also consider God gave him the wisdom.
But more than this, even today. We could look at sins in my life and boohoo how terrible I am (the devil who accuses)... or we could point to all the times God used me to help someone (eternal things that last forever).
Pessimism is not faith, and it's not good.
Way to hold a conversation. I'll try to avoid you brother.Peace be with you.
You know the Word of God. I also know the Word of God. You maybe right and I maybe wrong. But I am not in the business of arguing who is right and who is wrong. I don't desire to prove you wrong or to prove you right. I find arguing with someone to be rather unfruitful.
My philosophy on the Word of God is everyone is entitled to have their views and opinions on it. I consider it rather bad manners and highly offensive to say that someone's opinion is wrong according to the Word of God when the Word of God contains so many Fruitful Words for living a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy Life.
So pardon me as I put you on ignore as I do not wish your enlightenment nor do I wish to engage with you in future conversations. It's not your fault. It's my fault. My character despises pride and folly. I am not able to follow them due to absolute repugnance of those vices.
God bless you.
Salvation can never be lost Jason. You are putting Jesus dying for man's sin for salvation in the same sentence as someone loosing their salvation.Actually, this is not true. There is going to be a Judgment of Seat of Christ and a Great White Throne Judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10) (Romans 14:10) (Revelation 20:11-15). If Jesus's sin took away the sin of the world for all time at the cross, then there would be no need for these types of Judgments. Yes, it is true. Jesus did pay the price for the sins of the world, but this only if mankind accepts His free gift of salvation by receiving Him and by continuing to abide in Him and His goodness. Also, we know that Jesus did not die for a select group of people. Revelation says that those who worship the beast do not even have their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). This means that they were never in the Lamb's book of life. A person's name would have to be in the Lamb's book if their sins were paid for in some way by Jesus.
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How is this an answer to his question?Then you must have not have read the part of the Bible where Jesus says not to look upon a woman in lust or your whole body will be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). You must have not read the part in the Bible where Jesus says if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). You must not have read the part in the Bible where Jesus says by our words we will be justified and by our words we will be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37). You must not have read the part in the Bible where John says if you hate your brother you are a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15). You must have not read the part where John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). A great portion of the Bible is a warning for us not to sin and if we do, there are dire consequences to our souls (in the after life) if we do (See Matthew 13:41-42).
Way to hold a conversation. I'll try to avoid you brother.
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