Are there any arguments for creation...

[OldWiseGuy]

So that's it? There are stories about a thing and therefore that thing is true?

You match the story up with the evidence and, voila...creation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Humanity is anything but rational - hence the ridiculous responses to Corona Virus. Why should belief come from rational thought? When my son was a toddler, he was fascinated by the electric light. I showed him how to flick the switch. My mistake. Pestered me to pick him up so he could turn it on and off. He had no rational reason to turn on the light. He knew nothing about electricity (I am a qualified Radio/Electrical technician) but that did not stop him turning on the light.

There are many things that are irrational. Altruism for one. Unselfishness. Taking drugs or excessive alcohol abuse. Gambling. Buying 8 months supply of toilet paper when the quarantine period is two weeks. There are more, of course. People believe certain things against all rational thought. Usually that has negative consequences. However, there are things in the spiritual realm that transcend logic and reason. No one can talk me out of being a Christian because I know the truth. I do not pretend to understand it all, that is for sure. Infinity is a little out of my reach.

I have learned that nothing will persuade an atheist. I could give you 49 years worth of testimony about a life lived in the spiritual realm and you will dismiss it. Your choice. God says that He has put in place everything that you need to see that He exists. You choose to reject that. Your prerogative, of course. What I don't get is why atheists insist on trying to undermine the faith of others. Please don't be surprised if Christians defend the faith. We are obliged to. I also care about people who are unstable in their faith or who are considering the claims of Christ.

To say that altruism is irrational only demonstrates shallow thinking. As to your rest you seem to be complaining about reality. Ideally we should make decisions on rational thought. It is a problem when we do not.

And you are quite wrong. If you can come up with reliable evidence most atheists will be convinced. The problem is that there appears to be no reliable evidence for any God. Your "life in the spiritual realm" is not evidence since that sort of claim from a Muslim would not affect you at all. Or if it came from a Hindu. The reason that it is so hard to convince people to switch religions is that people that do not believe a particular religion can see the many logical problems with that religion. Of course the religious are blind to the logical problems in their own religion.

Of course this is a huge detour on your part. Why? Because you have no evidence for a creation.

 

[Aussie Pete]

To say that altruism is irrational only demonstrates shallow thinking. As to your rest you seem to be complaining about reality. Ideally we should make decisions on rational thought. It is a problem when we do not.

And you are quite wrong. If you can come up with reliable evidence most atheists will be convinced. The problem is that there appears to be no reliable evidence for any God. Your "life in the spiritual realm" is not evidence since that sort of claim from a Muslim would not affect you at all. Or if it came from a Hindu. The reason that it is so hard to convince people to switch religions is that people that do not believe a particular religion can see the many logical problems with that religion. Of course the religious are blind to the logical problems in their own religion.

Of course this is a huge detour on your part. Why? Because you have no evidence for a creation.

Sure, it's a detour. It is linked. Once you see that God is real then Creation is a no brainer. Obviously those who do not believe in God will reject that.

I've spent hours talking to atheists. Pointless. I quoted two miracles of healing that I experienced in one day. The response? "You healed yourself". Other responses, "You imagined it" or "You are lying". The response I never got was "Wow, tell me more!" I have nearly 50 years of lived experience with God. I would be dead if not for His intervention. All of which is dismissed by atheists. What atheists demand is what God refuses to give and what no one can provide to an atheist's satisfaction. There are some testimonies from atheists who have become Christians. Jeff Allen, a Christian comedian is one. There are others. Of course, the answer from the atheist is to quote those who have given up on Christianity. You believe what you choose to believe. When you get face to face with God, you not be able to say that no one told you.

 

[46AND2]

Sure, it's a detour. It is linked. Once you see that God is real then Creation is a no brainer. Obviously those who do not believe in God will reject that.

I've spent hours talking to atheists. Pointless. I quoted two miracles of healing that I experienced in one day. The response? "You healed yourself". Other responses, "You imagined it" or "You are lying". The response I never got was "Wow, tell me more!" I have nearly 50 years of lived experience with God. I would be dead if not for His intervention. All of which is dismissed by atheists. What atheists demand is what God refuses to give and what no one can provide to an atheist's satisfaction. There are some testimonies from atheists who have become Christians. Jeff Allen, a Christian comedian is one. There are others. Of course, the answer from the atheist is to quote those who have given up on Christianity. You believe what you choose to believe. When you get face to face with God, you not be able to say that no one told you.

You answered yourself in this very post. You don't give any heed to atheists who have given up on Christianity, yet you expect us to accept your anecdotal stories. Personal experiences do not mean much to people who aren't the ones who actually experienced it. There are plenty of Muslims with their own anecdotal stories, Catholics with their miracles, and Mormons, and any number of other religious followers, yet you aren't a part of those religions. There is a reason for the saying, "I just believe in one fewer god than you do." and "when you understand why you don't believe in all those other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

 

[Aussie Pete]

You answered yourself in this very post. You don't give any heed to atheists who have given up on Christianity, yet you expect us to accept your anecdotal stories. Personal experiences do not mean much to people who aren't the ones who actually experienced it. There are plenty of Muslims with their own anecdotal stories, Catholics with their miracles, and Mormons, and any number of other religious followers, yet you aren't a part of those religions. There is a reason for the saying, "I just believe in one fewer god than you do." and "when you understand why you don't believe in all those other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."

You will never understand. Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with God through Christ. Already that makes no sense to you. The Bible has long recognised this.

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

God will reveal Himself to anyone who asks Him. You need to be humble and honest. Tell God that you don't believe He exists. He knows that already. Ask Him, if He is real, to reveal Himself to you. Many people have done so and God has answered their request. This is one such instance.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure, it's a detour. It is linked. Once you see that God is real then Creation is a no brainer. Obviously those who do not believe in God will reject that.

I've spent hours talking to atheists. Pointless. I quoted two miracles of healing that I experienced in one day. The response? "You healed yourself". Other responses, "You imagined it" or "You are lying". The response I never got was "Wow, tell me more!" I have nearly 50 years of lived experience with God. I would be dead if not for His intervention. All of which is dismissed by atheists. What atheists demand is what God refuses to give and what no one can provide to an atheist's satisfaction. There are some testimonies from atheists who have become Christians. Jeff Allen, a Christian comedian is one. There are others. Of course, the answer from the atheist is to quote those who have given up on Christianity. You believe what you choose to believe. When you get face to face with God, you not be able to say that no one told you.

The problem with most religious claims of miracles is that either they are events that do regularly occur anyway or they cannot be substantiated. Christian "miracle" claims fail for the same reasons that Muslim claims fail. You would not believe a Muslim making the same claims when he could not support them, why do you expect anyone to believe you?

Now you really may believe your claims. But you are probably wrong. If your God is real he would understand the concept of worthless claims. Yours do not count as an example of being warned.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The problem with most religious claims of miracles is that either they are events that do regularly occur anyway or they cannot be substantiated. Christian "miracle" claims fail for the same reasons that Muslim claims fail. You would not believe a Muslim making the same claims when he could not support them, why do you expect anyone to believe you?

Now you really may believe your claims. But you are probably wrong. If your God is real he would understand the concept of worthless claims. Yours do not count as an example of being warned.

This is so predictable. I could write the script before this discussion even started. I'll leave you to it.

 

[pitabread]

God will reveal Himself to anyone who asks Him.

There are many former Christians who would disagree with that statement.

 

[loveofourlord]

I have been seeking a scientific answer for life for years.
There is no hint ....and we are pretty close to the source of it.
Like since time began for us.

There really is no good excuse for not knowing why life exists from
a scientific standpoint.

I get the lame answer for why we are the only known example of life.
Bu there is no good reason for not knowing why life exists, any more
than not knowing why matter gets warm from the sun.

pretty close? Were billions of years away from it, though were getting closer and closer to understand how life likly arose, but again evolution doesn't require life from non life, god could have started the first spark of life 2-3 billion years ago, and life arose from there. I do hope we can find life elsewhere in our solar system, a good 2-3 other locations that could have life, and be intereesting to see how much different they are.

 

[Ophiolite]

You will never understand. Christianity is not a religion.

So, when you complete the Australian census form, in the section where you identify your religion, you put "none". That's very interesting.

 

[solid_core]

That is the problem. Religious thinking often opposes rational thinking.

No, I just do not know what you are talking about, because I was not watching your conversation, so I do not understand your statement.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is so predictable. I could write the script before this discussion even started. I'll leave you to it.

That is only because it was correct. Please note, even though it was "so predictable" that you had no answer to it. So I would not say that it is not only correct, it is obviously correct. You appear to have been fooling yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I just do not know what you are talking about, because I was not watching your conversation, so I do not understand your statement.

Then you should have traced the conversation back a few posts. Click on the little arrow that point up after the name of the poster being quoted.

 

[solid_core]

Then you should have traced the conversation back a few posts. Click on the little arrow that point up after the name of the poster being quoted.

Wow, I learned a new feature!

 

[46AND2]

You will never understand. Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with God through Christ. Already that makes no sense to you. The Bible has long recognised this.

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

God will reveal Himself to anyone who asks Him. You need to be humble and honest. Tell God that you don't believe He exists. He knows that already. Ask Him, if He is real, to reveal Himself to you. Many people have done so and God has answered their request. This is one such instance.

"This is so predictable. I could write the script before this discussion even started. I'll leave you to it."

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is so predictable. I could write the script before this discussion even started. I'll leave you to it.

I wish that I could give it a "winner" as well.

 

[loveofourlord]

They trend toward disorganization and lower energy. Naturally.

Only people can make people. Nothing in chemistry says people would turn up.
All of our experiences show that the creator must be a God. Chemicals are just too stupid.

Good thing nothing in science says people would appear, it would be something more akin to a bacteria, which nothing in chemistry says is impossible, as thats where it would be, it would be a very series of rna if that in a capsule both of which have been shown to form on their own.

 

[loveofourlord]

creation assumes creator

and reality assumes a realtor, your begging the question, heck I believe in the creator and I find the arguments for creationism questionable, probably doesn't help I understand evolution and find creationists arguments laughable.

 

[SkyWriting]

Good thing nothing in science says people would appear, it would be something more akin to a bacteria, which nothing in chemistry says is impossible, as thats where it would be, it would be a very series of rna if that in a capsule both of which have been shown to form on their own.

I have never doubted that life was possible.
My question remains.....life is difficult to sustain, impossible to reproduce, and found virtually everywhere on earth. What function does it serve? Why does life exist? Why is it so prevalent, and still so fragile?

There must be a scientific reason why. It's obscene that we don't have one.

 

[Speedwell]

I have never doubted that life was possible.
My question remains.....life is difficult to sustain, impossible to reproduce, and found virtually everywhere on earth. What function does it serve? Why does life exist? Why is it so prevalent, and still so fragile?

There must be a scientific reason why. It's obscene that we don't have one.

Science is not equipped to answer "why" questions. The answer to that question must be found in some other way.