Are The Scriptures Sufficiently Clear?

[RDKirk]

This passage would also imply that the Bible is understandable. Blessed is the man who meditates on it!

Your conclusion carries the bias that "law of the Lord" is necessarily confined to a written code. Nothing in scripture itself asserts that God's law is confined to a written code.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I don't think that Protestants disagree on the essentials. Here's an example of a basic confession which unites many protestants - Reforming Catholic Confession

Also, 99% of Protestants accept the Apostles' Creed. What's expressed in that Creed is, in my opinion, the absolute essentials. We are very united on these things. We're divided on other things but I would say that these are non-essential. But that's nothing unique to Protestants. Catholics are also very "divided" within Catholicism.



A good example of non-essential things. Baptism is essential. All agree to that. But mode of baptism? Psht. Who cares?



Confessions exist because they are very helpful. They don't add anything to Scripture. Rather, they draw out what is already implicit in Scripture. Confessions help unify the church and clarify doctrine. But confessions are not infallible. And they have no authority to add anything to the Bible.

The teaching of the magisterium, on the other hand, is taken to be infallible. They also add doctrines for acceptance that are not taught in Scripture. The difference between Catholicism and Reformed faith is not that one has confessions and the other does not. The difference is in how we view our confessions.



Non-essential items. You'll find these disagreements within Catholicism too.

The disagreement occasionally seen in Catholicism is on issues where the Church expressly allows differing opinions in good faith. By definition, it does not harm our communion.

Comparing that to the real and substantive disagreements Protestants have with each other is simply intellectually dishonest.

 

[redleghunter]

Luther lamented it in later life saying " it is the greatest scandal" "there are now as many doctrine as heads"

Source please.

 

[RDKirk]

It shouldn't be logically impossible if what you say is true.

If the Scriptures are not sufficiently clear then there must be some doctrines which are necessary and not clearly laid out in Scripture. Can you name any?

The precise procedure of baptism, for instance.

 

[RDKirk]

The disagreement occasionally seen in Catholicism is on issues where the Church expressly allows differing opinions in good faith. By definition, it does not harm our communion.

Comparing that to the real and substantive disagreements Protestants have with each other is simply intellectually dishonest.

Protestants don't disagree on essentials, Protestants just claim as essential things that aren't.

 

[Tree of Life]

In fact, St. Peter says the same thing: "In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their destruction, just as they do the other scriptures."” (2 Pet. 3:16)

Yes I've already alluded to this. The Bible itself says that some things are hard to understand. But the essential things are clear.

Nonsense. Total, unadulterated nonsense.

It sounds crazy but it's not. You should look into the work of John Wycliffe and the Lollards.

 

[thecolorsblend]

It shouldn't be logically impossible if what you say is true.

If the Scriptures are not sufficiently clear then there must be some doctrines which are necessary and not clearly laid out in Scripture. Can you name any?

Whether or not I can is beside the point. The fact remains that any answer to that question you receive can be dismissed out of hand because it’s “not in the Bible”.

As a Catholic, that’s no barrier to me believing in something but I am a bit surprised that you seemingly can’t see the potential interpretive difficulty there.

 

[Anto9us]

Nothing in scripture itself asserts that God's law is confined to a written code.

True. Nature itself, natural revelation, is also 'his word that has gone out into all the earth'

Even the mysteries of The Godhead are supposedly available to Gentiles - so says Romans.

But nothing anywhere suggests God's Law is only known to some elitist class or Magisterium - that may be the doctrine of the Nicolaitians

 

[Tree of Life]

The disagreement occasionally seen in Catholicism is on issues where the Church expressly allows differing opinions in good faith. By definition, it does not harm our communion.

Comparing that to the real and substantive disagreements Protestants have with each other is simply intellectually dishonest.

The current controversy among clergy in the RCC concerning how to deal with the homosexual issue is a very interesting one!

 

[Anto9us]

In essentials - Unity
In non-essentials - Liberty
In all things - Charity

Some say Augustine wrote it -- I say Rupert Meldinius much later, a pseudonym for Peter Minserlien (sp?)

 

[Tree of Life]

The precise procedure of baptism, for instance.

This isn't made explicitly clear in Scripture. But I would argue that "the precise procedure" is left to our judgment. The essential elements are clear - water, in the name of the Triune God, etc... But dunking, thrice dunking, or sprinkling? Who cares?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Protestants don't disagree on essentials, Protestants just claim as essential things that aren't.

Fair enough.

Can you name five things all Protestants believe in, agree upon and generally have never disputed.

Bear in mind, I’m asking you to vouch that no Protestants have ever disagreed with your ideas in good faith.

 

[Tree of Life]

Whether or not I can is beside the point. The fact remains that any answer to that question you receive can be dismissed out of hand because it’s “not in the Bible”.

As a Catholic, that’s no barrier to me believing in something but I am a bit surprised that you seemingly can’t see the potential interpretive difficulty there.

You would have to identify a doctrine that Protestants regard as essential which is not clearly laid out in Scripture. You seem to admit that there is no such doctrine.

 

[Tree of Life]

Fair enough.

Can you name five things all Protestants believe in, agree upon and generally have never disputed.

Bear in mind, I’m asking you to vouch that no Protestants have ever disagreed with your ideas in good faith.

The articles of the Apostles' Creed. If anyone disagrees with any of those articles they have left the Christian faith.

 

[Anto9us]

Rom 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Anto9us]

http://www.[bless and do not curse]...es-god-hate-practices-of-the-nicolaitans.html

This is posted in contrast to the simplistic assumption that Nicolaitians were followers of Nicholas, one of the original 7 deacons, and that the whole matter was about sexual sin.

Parsing Greek words, Nicolaitians can be seen as 'lording it over the People' - a thing Jesus warned against

 

[thecolorsblend]

The current controversy among clergy in the RCC concerning how to deal with the homosexual issue is a very interesting one!

That issue isn’t doctrinal in the disagreements that it has caused.

 

[Tree of Life]

That issue isn’t doctrinal in the disagreements that it has caused.

Sure looks doctrinal to me.

 

[thecolorsblend]

You would have to identify a doctrine that Protestants regard as essential which is not clearly laid out in Scripture. You seem to admit that there is no such doctrine.

As I am not a Protestant, it isn’t my place to demand they agree on something.

You’re so certain that there is no substantial doctrinal disagreement so why not name five doctrines that no Protestant ever or anywhere has disagreed with.

 

[Tree of Life]

As I am not a Protestant, it isn’t my place to demand they agree on something.

You’re so certain that there is no substantial doctrinal disagreement so why not name five doctrines that no Protestant ever or anywhere has disagrees with.

Already done. Apostles' Creed.