Are The Scriptures Sufficiently Clear?

[ChristIsSovereign]

The "liberty" you choose is perpetual disagreement over even the basics of Christian doctrine while the body's unity fragments more and more each year?

Ever since Martin Luther first nailed stuff to doorways, Protestants seem to want to relitigate the faith every generation. And so far, it looks as though they chip more and more away from the faith every time.

Assuming Protestantism even has another hundred years, I think it's fair to ask if it will even be recognizably Christian anymore because of how much it might have jettisoned by that point.

Protestantism has existed for 500 years. It will exist for another 500, I'll tell you. The RCC will also last another 500 years.

 

[Tree of Life]

Protestantism has existed for 500 years. It will exist for another 500, I'll tell you. The RCC will also last another 500 years.

Unless the Lord Jesus returns.

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

Unless the Lord Jesus returns.

The spiritual body of believers will continue until He comes back.

Also: It is sheer arrogance to think that any amount of works could please the LORD. Jesus spoke about that, saying that people will speak in His name. In fact, He never knew them. They, in their fruitless vainglory, accrued unto themselves lavish attention using the name of the LORD to somehow 'sanctify' their selfish excess. In that, they worship themselves, for the truth of the LORD was far from their hearts; they thought that they could merit themselves grace but they were in error.

 

[TuxAme]

yeah, the colorsblend --
kindy sounds like POPES and COUNCILS, huh?

Sure thing- point fingers instead of clarify your own position.

 

[TuxAme]

Scripture doesn't stand alone, if that's what your question is. When you force Scripture to do so, you have chaos- a hundred, a thousand, and a high estimate places the number at 40,000 different denominations all claiming Scripture to be "sufficiently clear" (whatever that should mean) while all are tugging in radically different directions.

And Satan is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[W2L]

Scripture doesn't stand alone, if that's what your question is. When you force Scripture to do so, you have chaos- a hundred, a thousand, and a high estimate places the number at 40,000 different denominations all claiming Scripture to be "sufficiently clear" (whatever that should mean) while all are tugging in radically different directions.

And Satan is laughing all the way to the bank.

Jesus alone can unite.

 

[Tree of Life]

Scripture doesn't stand alone, if that's what your question is. When you force Scripture to do so, you have chaos- a hundred, a thousand, and a high estimate places the number at 40,000 different denominations all claiming Scripture to be "sufficiently clear" (whatever that should mean) while all are tugging in radically different directions.

And Satan is laughing all the way to the bank.

So just to be clear...

You deny that the Scriptures are sufficiently clear?

 

[PaulCyp1]

Seems like the existence of thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another about the meaning of a single scriptural passage should be proof enough that Sola Scripture does not and cannot result in scriptural truth. Truth cannot conflict with truth, and conflicting beliefs therefore necessarily mean false beliefs. Scripture itself tells us that Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, that He said it was to remain ONE, and that He promised that ONE Church, and no other, "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". 2,000 years later, that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in scriptural understanding, with NO conflicting denominations. Seriously, what more do you need?

 

[TuxAme]

So just to be clear...

You deny that the Scriptures are sufficiently clear?

I do, if (did I get your attention?) it means what I think it means.

What do I think it means? It's in the post you quoted.

 

[Tree of Life]

I do, if (did I get your attention?) it means what I think it means.

What do I think it means? It's in the post you quoted.

I would say that the Scriptures are able, all on their own, to tell a person all they need to know in order to be saved and to live a life pleasing to God.

Do you deny this?

 

[TuxAme]

Jesus alone can unite.

OK, but sola scriptura can't.

 

[Tree of Life]

Seems like the existence of thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another about the meaning of a single scriptural passage should be proof enough that Sola Scripture does not and cannot result in scriptural truth. Truth cannot conflict with truth, and conflicting beliefs therefore necessarily mean false beliefs. Scripture itself tells us that Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, that He said it was to remain ONE, and that He promised that ONE Church, and no other, "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". 2,000 years later, that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in scriptural understanding, with NO conflicting denominations. Seriously, what more do you need?

So it is your position that the Scriptures are not sufficiently clear?

 

[TuxAme]

I would say that the Scriptures are able, all on their own, to tell a person all they need to know in order to be saved and to live a life pleasing to God.

Do you deny this?

I say that I wouldn't know what makes up Scripture at all if Jesus' Church hadn't come together to make the determination.

 

[W2L]

1 Corinthians 3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking [a]like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?

 

[Tree of Life]

I say that I wouldn't know what makes up Scripture at all if Jesus' Church hadn't come together to make the determination.

Please answer the question.

 

[W2L]

OK, but sola scriptura can't.

Sure it can. scripture is all about Jesus.

 

[TuxAme]

Please answer the question.

I did- and I also hinted at what works with Scripture. It's foolish and impossible to put Scripture in a vacuum.

 

[TuxAme]

Sure it can. scripture is all about Jesus.

If Jesus alone can unite, then He certainly doesn't do it through Scripture Alone.

 

[redleghunter]

So, humanly speaking, the Church wrote the New Testament and was protected from error during that process. The Church went on to compile the biblical canon and was similarly protected from error during that entire process.

But the Church won't (or can't?) be protected from error at any other time in any other context?

Joan of Arc was burned at the stake. Was this error?

 

[Tree of Life]

I did- and I also hinted at what works with Scripture. It's foolish and impossible to put Scripture in a vacuum.

I'm afraid you're not really grappling with the doctrine. Sola Scriptura does not teach that other authorities are irrelevant.

I will assume that you deny that Scripture is able, all on its own, to teach a person what they need to know to be saved and to live a life pleasing to God. I will assume you believe that more authoritative words are needed.

These assumptions in mind...

Could you provide an example of a doctrine that is necessary for salvation or good works which is not clearly taught in Scripture?