Are Seventh Day Adventists open to OSAS because i saw that in a thread i found on bing?

[mmksparbud]

Anyone wants to keep the Sabbath according to Moses must become circumcised, as well as put to death the Sabbath breakers.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15



Do you are your organization obey these Sabbath commandments?


JLB

Totally bogus---not one of the 10 commandments demands circumcision. No where in the 10 commandments does it say anything about death.

 

[mmksparbud]

Circumcision is the law.

It is irrelevant if circumcision is not one of the ten commandments because you cannot break the law since sin is lawlessness. The law includes, sorcery, taking bribes, kidnapping, afflicting widows and orphans, e.t.c.

Your trying to say that all you need to do is rest on Saturday and you can ignore the rest of the law? Your definitely of the opinion that you can do whatever you like, get drunk, assault people since only murder is the real sin. Be a glutton, avoid paying tax, take drugs, gamble; because they are not included in the ten commandments.

You can't be serious.

Not one of the 10 commandments mentions death nor circumcision. The 10 commandments consist of 10---not 9, not one---10. God knows how to count.

 

[mmksparbud]

Jews will tell you that you as a Gentile are forbidden from honoring the Sabbath day.

The Sabbath was only given to the Jews.

God says otherwise. And the Sabbath was given at creation---long before any Jew.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God alone can make something Holy---man can not just say something is holy--God says it and He sanctified the 7th day and no other. Discussion will come to a quick end if you produce a verse where God says He has now sanctified the 1st day of the week.

The Jews were to be a light to the whole world---they were never to keep their faith to themselves. There was a whole great multitude that consisted of non-Jews that came with the Jews. The commandment itself says :
"nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

You don't want to do what God says---just don't do it. Don't make up stuff that is not there in an effort to make your choice look like obedience instead of disobedience.

 

[JLB777]

Totally bogus---not one of the 10 commandments demands circumcision. No where in the 10 commandments does it say anything about death.

All the law of Moses was predicated on being circumcised.

If you weren’t circumcised then you couldn’t be among the people, which meant you couldn’t keep the Passover or anything else such as Sabbath keeping.


IOW, without being circumcised the rest of the law of Moses was moot.



And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” Genesis 17:14



JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

All the law of Moses was predicated on being circumcised.

If you weren’t circumcised then you couldn’t be among the people, which meant you couldn’t keep the Passover or anything else such as Sabbath keeping.


IOW, without being circumcised the rest of the law of Moses was moot.



And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” Genesis 17:14



JLB

Believe what you want---I know what the bible says--I know how top read English and I can deal with the Hebrew---Name which of the 10 commandments say anything about circumcision---should be simple for you.

 

[JLB777]

Believe what you want---I know what the bible says--I know how top read English and I can deal with the Hebrew---Name which of the 10 commandments say anything about circumcision---should be simple for you.

You just don’t seem to understand the issue do you.


To keep any part of the law of Moses, whether the Passover, or the Sabbath requires physical circumcision.


You couldn’t be part of the nation of Israel without being circumcised.


Do you understand that the Church is not under the law?


Do you understand that if you were under the law, you are required to keep the Sabbath as the law dictated, which includes being put to death for even picking up sticks to kindle a fire?


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


Do you believe the Church is supposed to put people to death for working on the Sabbath?




JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

You just don’t seem to understand the issue do you.


To keep any part of the law of Moses, whether the Passover, or the Sabbath requires physical circumcision.


You couldn’t be part of the nation of Israel without being circumcised.


Do you understand that the Church is not under the law?


Do you understand that if you were under the law, you are required to keep the Sabbath as the law dictated, which includes being put to death for even picking up sticks to kindle a fire?


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


Do you believe the Church is supposed to put people to death for working on the Sabbath?




JLB

Hey---if you want to get circumcised---go right ahead. I just hope you realize that circumcision was a pre-resurrection of Jesus requirement to be a Jew---Since I, and any Christian, is now a spiritual Jew, since Jesus paid the price by being the sacrificial Lamb---the ceremonial law was done away with and since I am female---I do not need it.
The death penalty is not mentioned in the 10---if you feel so inclined, you might have a problem with the police. And, unfortunately, we are no longer under a theocracy---The Jews did away with most of that when they chose a king over God to rule them and there are no priests to dictate religious laws.
The NT says we are to obey authorities and they take a dim view of killing anyone for any reason---but if you insist on killing sabbath breakers, I'm sure they will treat you very gently when they throw you in the nut house when you tell them you had to kill a sabbath breaker because God told you to. He hasn't mentioned the subject to me.

 

[klutedavid]

Believe what you want---I know what the bible says--I know how top read English and I can deal with the Hebrew---Name which of the 10 commandments say anything about circumcision---should be simple for you.

We do undergo a circumcision; a spiritual circumcision and that is under the law of Christ.

Colossians 2:11
And in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

Now that was simple.

 

[JLB777]

Hey---if you want to get circumcised---go right ahead. I just hope you realize that circumcision was a pre-resurrection of Jesus requirement to be a Jew---Since I, and any Christian, is now a spiritual Jew, since Jesus paid the price by being the sacrificial Lamb---the ceremonial law was done away with and since I am female---I do not need it.
The death penalty is not mentioned in the 10---if you feel so inclined, you might have a problem with the police. And, unfortunately, we are no longer under a theocracy---The Jews did away with most of that when they chose a king over God to rule them and there are no priests to dictate religious laws.
The NT says we are to obey authorities and they take a dim view of killing anyone for any reason---but if you insist on killing sabbath breakers, I'm sure they will treat you very gently when they throw you in the nut house when you tell them you had to kill a sabbath breaker because God told you to. He hasn't mentioned the subject to me.

Ok, if all of that is true then why are quoting Old Testament scriptures about keeping the Sabbath.


I asked you to quote Jesus or His Apostles, that instruct us how to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.


Let me know when you find some.



JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

We do undergo a circumcision; a spiritual circumcision and that is under the law of Christ.

Colossians 2:11
And in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

Now that was simple.

Isn't it---again---no literal circumcision needed anymore.

Ok, if all of that is true then why are quoting Old Testament scriptures about keeping the Sabbath.


I asked you to quote Jesus or His Apostles, that instruct us how to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.


Let me know when you find some.



JLB

The Sabbath in the NT didn't need any clarification---there were no shouting matches about it, Just as there were no shouting matches about the right way to not commit adultery---Jesus even enlarged upon it by saying the spirit of the law is to also include what you are secretly thinking.
There was no controversy about the Sabbath and the only scriptures that Jesus and any new Christian convert had was the OT. It took 70 years to get the whole of the NT---so all NT Christians new exactly what do to about all of the 10 commandments, they did as the disciples instructed--

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

That was the OT they were to study--the same as Christ had. The NT consisted of some letters that made the circuit to the churches--not a speedy thing as they had to be hand copied and travel long distances.
Had there been any changes to the keeping of the Sabbath---another war would have ensued---just as it did about circumcision. In case you haven't noticed, they seemed to fight over just about anything at first---except about the 10 commandments, nobody needed to argue about how not to steal and so on--nor about keeping the Sabbath.

I am still waiting for the verse that says Jesus has declared that "the 1st day of the week is now the Sabbath in honor of my resurrection instead of the 7th in honor of my creation"
Let me know when you find it.

 

[klutedavid]

Isn't it---again---no literal circumcision needed anymore.


The Sabbath in the NT didn't need any clarification---there were no shouting matches about it, Just as there were no shouting matches about the right way to not commit adultery---Jesus even enlarged upon it by saying the spirit of the law is to also include what you are secretly thinking.
There was no controversy about the Sabbath and the only scriptures that Jesus and any new Christian convert had was the OT. It took 70 years to get the whole of the NT---so all NT Christians new exactly what do to about all of the 10 commandments, they did as the disciples instructed--

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

That was the OT they were to study--the same as Christ had. The NT consisted of some letters that made the circuit to the churches--not a speedy thing as they had to be hand copied and travel long distances.
Had there been any changes to the keeping of the Sabbath---another war would have ensued---just as it did about circumcision. In case you haven't noticed, they seemed to fight over just about anything at first---except about the 10 commandments, nobody needed to argue about how not to steal and so on--nor about keeping the Sabbath.

I am still waiting for the verse that says Jesus has declared that "the 1st day of the week is now the Sabbath in honor of my resurrection instead of the 7th in honor of my creation"
Let me know when you find it.

Are you talking about the old creation or the new creation, because they are very different domains.

 

[JLB777]

Isn't it---again---no literal circumcision needed anymore.

Why don’t we need circumcision anymore, what changed?


What was it in the Old Testament that separated the children of Israel from the rest of the nations (that words “nations” refers to Gentiles).


What separated the children of Israel from the nations was the law of Moses, which included circumcision.


In order to bring about “one new man” from the two, the thing that divided Jew from the Gentile, the circumcised from the uncircumcised had to be removed.


The New Testament calls this thing that divided the Jew from the Gentile, the middle wall of separation.


Paul says it this way to the Ephesians - Ephesians 2:11-16


Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

• being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

• who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

The thing that divided Jew from Gentile was the law of Moses, with its ordinances that included circumcision, as well as Sabbath laws, and the death penalty for so much as picking up sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


The law of Moses was always temporary, as it was added until the Seed should, the Messiah.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19


It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come



The Point to everything mentioned here is to say, it’s pointless for you to try and quote scriptures from the law of Moses, and apply Sabbath requirements from the law, and not also apply everything else the law Moses commanded, which includes physical circumcision.


If you want to teach God’s people that the Church is observe the Sabbath, then you must show us from the New Testament, the instructions from Jesus and His Apostles how the Church is required to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.



JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

Why don’t we need circumcision anymore, what changed?


What was it in the Old Testament that separated the children of Israel from the rest of the nations (that words “nations” refers to Gentiles).


What separated the children of Israel from the nations was the law of Moses, which included circumcision.


In order to bring about “one new man” from the two, the thing that divided Jew from the Gentile, the circumcised from the uncircumcised had to be removed.


The New Testament calls this thing that divided the Jew from the Gentile, the middle wall of separation.


Paul says it this way to the Ephesians - Ephesians 2:11-16


Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

• being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

• who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

The thing that divided Jew from Gentile was the law of Moses, with its ordinances that included circumcision, as well as Sabbath laws, and the death penalty for so much as picking up sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


The law of Moses was always temporary, as it was added until the Seed should, the Messiah.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19


It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come



The Point to everything mentioned here is to say, it’s pointless for you to try and quote scriptures from the law of Moses, and apply Sabbath requirements from the law, and not also apply everything else the law Moses commanded, which includes physical circumcision.


If you want to teach God’s people that the Church is observe the Sabbath, then you must show us from the New Testament, the instructions from Jesus and His Apostles how the Church is required to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.



JLB

Goodness but you have an obsession with circumcision!! Paul already explained it fully.
"contained in ordinances"
Like I said---if you want to get it done---that's up to you. The 10 commandments show no such requirement. The ceremonial ordinences are no longer required -- they were nailed to the cross.

I suggest you read post #90 again.

 

[JLB777]

Goodness but you have an obsession with circumcision!! Paul already explained it fully.
"contained in ordinances"
Like I said---if you want to get it done---that's up to you. The 10 commandments show no such requirement. The ceremonial ordinences are no longer required -- they were nailed to the cross.

I suggest you read post #90 again.

Again, you missed the point.


If you want to quote Old Testament scriptures from the law of Moses, then your obligated to keep all the law.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15



Does your organization teach you to put to death Sabbath violators.



Please list for us all the requirements of observing the Sabbath, that the SDA teaches.



JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

Again, you missed the point.


If you want to quote Old Testament scriptures from the law of Moses, then your obligated to keep all the law.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15



Does your organization teach you to put to death Sabbath violators.



Please list for us all the requirements of observing the Sabbath, that the SDA teaches.



JLB

Hate to tell you this---we get our marching orders from the bible. And it says that the ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross---Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb and now our High Priest.


Read posts #87 and 90.

 

[JLB777]

Hate to tell you this---we get our marching orders from the bible. And it says that the ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross---Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb and now our High Priest.


Read posts #87 and 90.

So where do you get your Sabbath law from?


Please post the scriptures where Jesus or His Apostles commanded The Church to observe the Sabbath as the law of Moses dictates.



JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

So where do you get your Sabbath law from?


Please post the scriptures where Jesus or His Apostles commanded The Church to observe the Sabbath as the law of Moses dictates.



JLB

The only laws done away with at the cross were the ceremonial laws---all those that pointed to Jesus. Read posts 87 and 90 till you comprehend. I am still waiting for the verse that says Jesus has replaced the 7th day sabbath with the 1st day of the week. Till you do--the 7th day stands. If you can point to a verse that states any unrepentant sinner will inherit eternal life, the 10 still stand for they point to sin, but can not remove it--only the blood of Jesus can do that. There are 10 of them---not 9.

 

[JLB777]

The only laws done away with at the cross were the ceremonial laws---all those that pointed to Jesus. Read posts 87 and 90 till you comprehend. I am still waiting for the verse that says Jesus has replaced the 7th day sabbath with the 1st day of the week. Till you do--the 7th day stands. If you can point to a verse that states any unrepentant sinner will inherit eternal life, the 10 still stand for they point to sin, but can not remove it--only the blood of Jesus can do that. There are 10 of them---not 9.

I’m the first person to teach that unrepentant Born again Christians, much less sinners, will not inherit eternal life.


Of course you will not find a scripture that says only the “ceremonial laws” were done away with at the cross.


The law of Moses itself was abolished the n His flesh, and taken out of the way, having always been temporary.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

• What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should.

The law of Moses, not the ceremonial laws, was added until the Seed should come.


The commandments were keep by Abraham 430 years before the law was added and remain as part of the covenant.


IOM, the laws and commandments of God are eternal, the law of Moses was temporary.


The way the Sabbath was keep under the law of Moses has changed and is simply a day for man to rest.


Otherwise if you believe the Sabbath is to be kept as it was under the law, then you must put to death the Sabbath violators for even picking up sticks to kindle a fire.


Does you organization teach and practice that?


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


Do you put to death those who violate the Sabbath?



Please list for us specifically how the Church is to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


How far can a Christian travel on the Sabbath?


Can a Christian cook on the Sabbath?


Since the law has changed, please tell us how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


Can you show us a scripture where Jesus or His Apostles have the Church a command to gather and worship on Saturday?


How do you yourself observe the Sabbath?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

There are 10 of them---not 9.

Yes there are 10.


So please tell us how the SDA teaches us to rest on the Sabbath?


What constitutes “work” on the Sabbath.


When does the Sabbath begin and when does it end?


How do we know if we have broken the Sabbath?



JLB

 

[mmksparbud]

I’m the first person to teach that unrepentant Born again Christians, much less sinners, will not inherit eternal life.


Of course you will not find a scripture that says only the “ceremonial laws” were done away with at the cross.


The law of Moses itself was abolished the n His flesh, and taken out of the way, having always been temporary.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

• What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should.

The law of Moses, not the ceremonial laws, was added until the Seed should come.


The commandments were keep by Abraham 430 years before the law was added and remain as part of the covenant.


IOM, the laws and commandments of God are eternal, the law of Moses was temporary.


The way the Sabbath was keep under the law of Moses has changed and is simply a day for man to rest.


Otherwise if you believe the Sabbath is to be kept as it was under the law, then you must put to death the Sabbath violators for even picking up sticks to kindle a fire.


Does you organization teach and practice that?


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15


Do you put to death those who violate the Sabbath?



Please list for us specifically how the Church is to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


How far can a Christian travel on the Sabbath?


Can a Christian cook on the Sabbath?


Since the law has changed, please tell us how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


Can you show us a scripture where Jesus or His Apostles have the Church a command to gather and worship on Saturday?


How do you yourself observe the Sabbath?



JLB

"I’m the first person to teach that unrepentant Born again Christians, much less sinners, will not inherit eternal life.
Of course you will not find a scripture that says only the “ceremonial laws” were done away with at the cross."

If that is what you truly believe---than anyone, sinner or Christian, who breaks the ceremonial laws and are unrepentant---will be lost. And if they repent, then anyone who breaks any of the ceremonial laws would also have to be killed---are you going to do that in an act of repentance?​

Read posts 87 and 90 until you comprehend.

the 10 commandments---written by the hand of God, on stone were kept inside the Ark. They are called the testament. The earthly Ark was a replica of the heavenly Ark, which is still in heaven.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Exo_25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

The ceremonial laws, dictated by God--handwritten by Moses, were not kept inside the ark.
1Ki_8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egyp
eb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;


None of the 10 commandments point to the death of the Lamb---the ceremonial laws were for the purpose of pointing to the death of the Lamb. Obviously, when the Real Sacrificial Lamb was slain, all ceremonies pointing to that would no longer be needed. There are 10---not 9.
And the 4th will still be kept in the new earth.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.