Are myths the basis of Protestantism?

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holeinone

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cristoiglesia said:
Blessings to you holeinone,

I refuse to debate websites but only debate individuals. There are thousands of anti-Catholic websites and I refuse to give them credence by responding to them nor to get into a cut and paste battle here in this forum. I likewise do not get into a proof text battle because I do not believe in taking Scriptures out of context and their usual meaning and then use them to support my suppositions. I see that as a abuse of Scriptures. When I do post a Scripture you can be certain it applies to the discussion and adds to the support of my contention.

If you would like to read some of those websites and then form an opinion and post what you have learned, I will respond. Otherwise, you are wasting my time and everyone else's time with this anti-Catholic eisegesis.

In Christ


I am stating my beliefs, you have freely stated yours.

I find it 'INTERESTING' that you believe one can abuse scripture in a discussion of faith and salvation. I post scripture in context while you make vague references to a scripture proving something and post it without context.

I simply responded to your misuse of scripture with some authorities, you follow the works of men and then point to me for citing scholarly men . I have not visited on "anti Catholic site". My material came from Protestant scholarship. To me it seems the norm when Catholics discuss doctrine to blame it on "anti Catholic " sites, it is a hollow charge. .


As a Calvinist I do not feel it necessary to drag anyone from any church, I believe it is God that opens ears and eyes not men .However I do feel the need to defend Protestant doctrine from being called a "myth", and the misreading of scripture to prove a faulty doctrinal position .

This thread was not begun by an "anti Catholic", quite the contrary, it was begun by an anti protestant, so your complaint falls on dead ears here.
 
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holeinone

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Thursday said:
Okay holeinone, I'll take your word for it over that of the people who were actually there at the time.

The whole "Peter was never in Rome" thing is an absurd argument made for the sole purpose of "not wanting to seem to support" the papacy. I assure you there are plenty of non-Catholics who know Peter was in Rome and don't have a problem with it.

My post was not about citizenship status, it was pointing out that Paul wrote to Jews in Rome. The whole letter is how we do not have to follow the Laws of Moses anymore, how circumcision cannot be forced on gentile converts, how other Jewish laws are not mandatory for all Christians.

How did the apostle sent to the Jews BY GOD suddenly become the Pope to gentiles ?

Why was his name not included in the list of believers to greet from Paul.. surely the "Bishop of Rome" would have rated a greeting .

So the choice is this, either Peter was disobedient to the command of God to be the apostle to the Jews ( and Paul the Gentiles) or Peter followed the command of God and labored in the Jewish community.


God carefully prepared Paul, seeing he was a most educated Jews in the scriptures and at the same time a Roman citizen that could move with some freedom in the gentile world.

Peter was a humble man, in my opinion he would be appalled at all the pomp of the papacy
 
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holeinone

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Saint_George said:
Thats not what the forum said. They closed down a thread of mine and re-opened it stating that there were over 30,000.

Even if there aren't, the're are not 2 truths. Faith isn't an opiniated question. 1,000 is to many.

Saint_George



Every Catholic that uses birth control and sleeps in on Sundays ( that is 75% of Catholics in the United States) is a religion to himself.

There is only one truth , you are correct. it is one truth that Protestant churches agree on.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Luk 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

We share a common doctrinal position first taught by Luther. Men are saved by faith alone.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:


Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:


Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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holeinone said:
Every Catholic that uses birth control and sleeps in on Sundays ( that is 75% of Catholics in the United States) is a religion to himself.
Don't be ridiculous, every Catholic sins. "If you say that you do not sin, you have not the Truth in you."
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Luk 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Yup, that why Jesus founded His Church, to bring us to Him.

Your brother in Christ.
 
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holeinone

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kimber1 said:
cristoiglesia, i just wanted to say God bless you :) it was my own delving into the history that eventually had me considering Catholicism :) i'd love to hear your conversion story someday :)


It was the Bible that led to my conversion.

I was so lost, I thought I was a "good person" and that when I died I had a pretty good record to show.

I did not know the Bible said if you break one law you have broken them all.
I did not realize that if God is a just judge he HAD to send me to hell to vindicate his righteousness.

I had lied , I was a liar, I had stolen as a child so I was a thief, I had used the Lords name in vain, I was a blasphemer, I had lusted in my heart and Jesus said that made me an adulterer.

I thought all i had to do was go to church and receive the sacraments and I would be fine.

I started to read the Good News Bible. The first bible I had ever owned.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


When I saw myself as God saw me, I knew I needed a Savior, and I knew that Jesus was that Savior. I asked His forgiveness, and for the first time in my life I felt whole and healed and I committed my life into His hands . I felt like Adam must have felt before he sinned. I was in full personal relationship with God .

If men seek for God, he is not in the history books. He is alive !
 
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holeinone

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IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
Don't be ridiculous, every Catholic sins. "If you say that you do not sin, you have not the Truth in you."

That is not what I said, what I said to you is they are each a religion to themselves selecting what doctrines they will accept and believe.
 
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kimber1

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Every Catholic that uses birth control and sleeps in on Sundays ( that is 75% of Catholics in the United States) is a religion to himself.
man we were getting along fine... let's not ruin it now with unfounded statistics....

It was the Bible that led to my conversion.

I was so lost, I thought I was a "good person" and that when I died I had a pretty good record to show.

I did not know the Bible said if you break one law you have broken them all.
I did not realize that if God is a just judge he HAD to send me to hell to vindicate his righteousness.

I had lied , I was a liar, I had stolen as a child so I was a thief, I had used the Lords name in vain, I was a blasphemer, I had lusted in my heart and Jesus said that made me an adulterer.

I thought all i had to do was go to church and receive the sacraments and I would be fine.

I started to read the Good News Bible. The first bible I had ever owned.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


When I saw myself as God saw me, I knew I needed a Savior, and I knew that Jesus was that Savior. I asked His forgiveness, and for the first time in my life I felt whole and healed and I committed my life into His hands . I felt like Adam must have felt before he sinned. I was in full personal relationship with God .

If men seek for God, he is not in the history books. He is alive !
__________________
and that's great!.....for YOU :)

i didn't measn to imply i never studied the Bible. i started out a child in teh Wesleyan church, my family and i spent 3 months in Cloumbia SA as missionaries buidling a high shcool fro the kids there. it was in this church i made that altar call. we memorized the BIble in that church like oones business.

then as i got older we switched to the Baptist church. same thing, memorizing the Bible, intensive sunday school lessons.

then i fell away as i got older and moved out on my own.

finally i came back, and went again to a Baptist church. loved it, thought the preacher was just awesome but when i started hearing things preached against other denoms from the pulpit, i started studying. it wasn't that i cast aside the Bible but rather the question i kept askling myself was "why does he hate these people so?"

so when i realized where the roots of my church fell short, the roots of the Catholic chuech went so much deeper and i fell in lvoe with Christ's church. i'm sorry that you think i'm misled. i feel the same about you but if you have that persoanl relationship with God, (and i contrary to popular belief have that relationshipp as well in the Catholic Church) then why are we arguing really? :)
 
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holeinone

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I am sorry, the 25% statistic was a European one

Weekly Church Attendance in the USA

All Men 32 percent
All Women 44

Catholic Men 26
Catholic Women 49

Protestant Men 42
Protestant Women 50


For Catholics missing Mass intentionally is a damning sin. It is not a requirement for salvation to Protestants.
Yet we see more protestants go to church in America than Catholics.

Then we have the issue of are the ones that go considered" practicing" Catholics ( that is keeping the rules and regulations of the church?)

An interesting article by Rev. Andrew M. Greeley on this topic
http://www.americamagazine.org/gettext.cfm?articleTypeID=1&textID=3626&issueID=487

The statistics on Catholic European attendance is even more grim
"In European cities, at the very heart of old Christendom, the annual baptism rate itself is barely 5% and those who are baptized are almost never weekly churchgoers. For the first time in history, for example, only 42% of the Irish go to mass on Sunday."
Joan Chittister,OSB

Among Catholics, only 10 percent in the Netherlands, 12 percent in France, 15 percent in Germany and Austria, 18 percent in Spain and 25 percent in Italy attend Mass weekly.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10984
 
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holeinone

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kimber1 said:
and that's great!.....for YOU :)

My sister,Miss Kim, there is not one way for me and another for you.
i didn't measn to imply i never studied the Bible. i started out a child in teh Wesleyan church, my family and i spent 3 months in Cloumbia SA as missionaries buidling a high shcool fro the kids there. it was in this church i made that altar call. we memorized the BIble in that church like oones business.

then as i got older we switched to the Baptist church. same thing, memorizing the Bible, intensive sunday school lessons.

then i fell away as i got older and moved out on my own.

finally i came back, and went again to a Baptist church. loved it, thought the preacher was just awesome but when i started hearing things preached against other denoms from the pulpit, i started studying. it wasn't that i cast aside the Bible but rather the question i kept askling myself was "why does he hate these people so?"

so when i realized where the roots of my church fell short, the roots of the Catholic chuech went so much deeper and i fell in lvoe with Christ's church. i'm sorry that you think i'm misled. i feel the same about you but if you have that persoanl relationship with God, (and i contrary to popular belief have that relationshipp as well in the Catholic Church) then why are we arguing really? :)



It is very easy to like the tradition and the mystery . It is easy to feel holy and close to God with incense and vestments and golden vessels. I remember loving that "mystery " too .



But that is an exterior holiness, that does not transfer to an internal holiness for those in attendance . The internal holiness as I am sure you know is a work of the Holy Spirit and not tradition, no matter how beautiful.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:


Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


I wish you well in your spiritual journey.
 
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mesue

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kimber1 said:
… i prefer mine


I prefer truth ;)
kimber1 said:
bolding mine. was this a slip? or an admission?


I meant the word “Just” as in only. Like Only the prayers of dead Roman Catholics…

kimber1 said:
i was referring to where you said you could only gain salvation through the sacramants. i'm not sure what you're talking about now?


What they discussed at the Counsel of Trent, and all the anathemas for not believing.

SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION: "If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA

SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that in the Roman Church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 3).

SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 5).

THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST: "If anyone says that Christ received in the Eucharist is received spiritually only and not also sacramentally and really, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 8).



And so on …



kimber1 said:
well of course it doesn't say He was forbidden to marry, don't put words in my mouth. it is said that both are acceptable in the eyes of God. marraige is sacred yes and God made man and woman to join together HOWEVER it was also said that if a man can live in such a way as to not have his attention divided between his wife and God that was A okay with Him too


I didn’t put words in your mouth, you said

kimber1 said:
forbidding to marry, wasn't Jesus unmarried? (already covered the abstaining thing)


But, I’m not finding just where you covered that abstaining thing. Or the Book Chapter and verse that says Priests and Nuns cannot marry. Not “Should Not Marry” just cannot. Peter and Paul were married, being formerly Baptist, I know you knew that ;)

kimber1 said:
… heh i ain't touchin that one


I will. I was speaking to the hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church in regards to the abstaining from marrying and not eating meat on Fridays. And that if I don’t believe that the sacraments, or that by my performing them, get me to Heaven, I go to hell, that if I were to remain a Roman Catholic that Jesus shed His blood for only some of my sins, and not all of them.

My Bible says that all sin separates us from God, not just some. My Bible says Jesus shed His blood to atone for all of my sins, not just some. If this is what you and your compadres call silly, then point your finger and call me silly, but I believe that Jesus shed His blood to cover my whole sin debt, that when I die I go straight to Heaven because He did this for me. I don’t make any pit stops along the way, I cannot get prayed into Heaven once I die (I’ll already be there) But if I were not saved, once I’m dead, I’m dead. Paul said to work out your own salvation. You can’t work mine out for me, I am the only one that can accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior on my own behalf, you can’t pray that for me.
May God bless you with His peace and understanding, Kim. :hug:
 
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holeinone said:
That is not what I said, what I said to you is they are each a religion to themselves selecting what doctrines they will accept and believe.

That's how I thought when I was a protestant too. However that is not so in the Catholic Church. Individuals can be confused or even sinfully willfull, but ultimately there is only one authentic teaching authority.
 
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holeinone

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IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
That's how I thought when I was a protestant too. However that is not so in the Catholic Church. Individuals can be confused or even sinfully willfull, but ultimately there is only one authentic teaching authority.

Have you ever heard the term "Cafeteria Catholics"?

Everyone doing what is right in his own mind,

Each man a religion to himself


The Holy Spirit leads the saved which he indwells.

He is the final teaching authority
 
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kimber1

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holeinone said:
My sister,Miss Kim, there is not one way for me and another for you.



It is very easy to like the tradition and the mystery . It is easy to feel holy and close to God with incense and vestments and golden vessels. I remember loving that "mystery " too .



But that is an exterior holiness, that does not transfer to an internal holiness for those in attendance . The internal holiness as I am sure you know is a work of the Holy Spirit and not tradition, no matter how beautiful.
i do agree, but i feel closer to God and feel the Holy Spirit working in me where i am. that's all i'm saying. you may feel it where you are and that's all good. that's what i mean :)


I wish you well in your spiritual journey.
and me, you :)
 
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kimber1

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mesue said:
I prefer truth ;)
as do i ;)






What they discussed at the Counsel of Trent, and all the anathemas for not believing.
SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION: "If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA

SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that in the Roman Church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 3).

SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 5).

THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST: "If anyone says that Christ received in the Eucharist is received spiritually only and not also sacramentally and really, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 8).



And so on …
and?









But, I’m not finding just where you covered that abstaining thing. Or the Book Chapter and verse that says Priests and Nuns cannot marry. Not “Should Not Marry” just cannot. Peter and Paul were married, being formerly Baptist, I know you knew that ;)
peter and paul used to be Baptist?????? LOL!!! you aren't serious? :D




I will. I was speaking to the hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church in regards to the abstaining from marrying and not eating meat on Fridays. And that if I don’t believe that the sacraments, or that by my performing them, get me to Heaven, I go to hell, that if I were to remain a Roman Catholic that Jesus shed His blood for only some of my sins, and not all of them.
what sins do you think the Catholic church says his blood didn't ocver?


My Bible says that all sin separates us from God, not just some. My Bible says Jesus shed His blood to atone for all of my sins, not just some. If this is what you and your compadres call silly, then point your finger and call me silly, but I believe that Jesus shed His blood to cover my whole sin debt, that when I die I go straight to Heaven because He did this for me. I don’t make any pit stops along the way, I cannot get prayed into Heaven once I die (I’ll already be there) But if I were not saved, once I’m dead, I’m dead. Paul said to work out your own salvation. You can’t work mine out for me, I am the only one that can accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior on my own behalf, you can’t pray that for me.
May God bless you with His peace and understanding, Kim. :hug:
funny, mine says the same thing :) well except for the pitstop thing ;)
 
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mesue

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kimber1 said:
as do i ;)[/font]
peter and paul used to be Baptist?????? LOL!!! you aren't serious? :D

:( I expected better from you. You know what I was saying.
kimber1 said:
*ADMIN HAT ON

okay folks, everyone needs to take a deep breathe, push away from the computer for a minute and calm down.
i do not want to see ANYMORE personal slams at one another, understand? we are all supposed to be Christians here, can we please act like it?

*ADMIN HAT OFF
Were you serious?



kimber1 said:
what sins do you think the Catholic church says his blood didn't ocver?
Murder is one mortal sin, adultery, not believing that Jesus is actually in the host etc. etc.

kimber1 said:
funny, mine says the same thing :) well except for the pitstop thing ;)
Again, Book, Chapter and Verse.

God bless you Kim :)
 
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mesue said:
[/font]
:( I expected better from you. You know what I was saying.
no actually, i'm afraid i don't. in my whole time of being a Baptist i've never heard that claim about Peter and Paul. ever.

Were you serious?
yes i was. i apologize that you took that as a salm. it wasn't meant as one, only my being in complete shock over what i read.




Murder is one mortal sin, adultery, not believing that Jesus is actually in the host etc. etc.
murder, if confessed and truely repentant for can be forgiven. same with adultery. not believing Jesus is actually in the host? mmmmm that one may be a bit tricky.


Again, Book, Chapter and Verse.
i already gave you the book chapter and verse about purgatory and you said that was your heaven where you get your reward :confused:

God bless you Kim :)
peace be with you
 
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cristoiglesia

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kimber1 said:
cristoiglesia, i just wanted to say God bless you :) it was my own delving into the history that eventually had me considering Catholicism :) i'd love to hear your conversion story someday :)

God bless you also,

Thank you so much for being interested in my conversion to Catholicism. Please bear with me, my journey was a long one and sometimes circuitous. I was born and reared in a city that was all one religion. I was reared in Winston-Salem, NC and was baptized as an infant in the Moravian Church. Being that there was only one religion in the community, I did not grow up with a lot of religious prejudice. My father was born of Jewish ancestry and my mother is of German ancestry. My paternal grandfather had converted to Christianity as a young man. My father enrolled me in Hebrew school when I was about nine years old and I continued as a teenager. This was the genesis of my passion for Biblical languages,the Torah and Church history. I went off the college and received a degree in music and in biology and received a scholarship to medical school. Unfortunately , the Vietnam war was during this time and my lottery draft number was 20 out of 365. I was drafted 5 days after graduating college and also had the double misfortune of being drafted into the Marine Corps. I served in Vietnam as a combat "grunt" in a place called Khe Sahn. To me, Vietnam was a very spiritual experience and I was sustained by my faith. That is where I first realized that I was a sojourner in this world and not part of the world. That feeling and reality persists to this day and changed my life. Shortly after returning home I was called to the ministry in a very supernatural experience where the call was undeniable. Shortly afterwards I entered a Baptist University and studied theology. I really could not agree with Baptist theology although I tried. I managed to graduate by faking my agreement and soon enrolled in a Methodist University studying religion. This was more comfortable and made much more sense and I really excelled there in a better environment. Wesleyan theology, he having been a Moravian, was more reasonable and did not have the same Humanist undergirding as does Calvinist theology. My emphasis throughout graduate school was in early Church history and Biblical languages.

While in graduate school I went on my first mission to Nicaragua when the Sandinista's were in control of the country. The Moravian church had missions among the Misquito indians and the Sandinistas were committing genocide against them because of their Christianity. I volunteered along with other Vietnam vets to go there and work with the Contras to get them relocated from the coast to the mountains to save their lives. We were successful in their relocation and they survived in a more defensible location.

I graduated from Grad School and despite offers to teach and to pastor, I decided to become a missionary. I went to work smuggling Bibles for Gideon into the Soviet Union. I was subsequently caught, tried and imprisoned for subversive activities. I was there with an open ended sentence and I really felt that I would be there for the rest of my life. While there I came to believe that God had abandoned me. A Orthodox priest came to visit and I asked for a Bible in English, Latin, Hebrew or Greek. He said that he could not get me a Bible into the prison but would find what he could that would boost my spirit. On his next visit he brought me a copy of the complete works of St. John of the Cross written in Latin. I came across "Dark Night of the Soul" and related perfectly to his experiences, a fellow prisoner who also felt abandoned by God. I learned from St. John how to reach deeper into the Spiritual side of my faith and communicate with God through prayer as never before. I had my first personal experience of the sign gifts of the Spirit while imprisoned there. A whole new Spirituality was opened to me. Subsequently the priest through his bishop was able to secure my release and have me deported. I spent a year there.

I was then sent to the Middle East and I worked in Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Syria and was now working for Wycliffe Bible Translators. I came in contact with a lot of the priests of the Eastern Catholic Church and was impressed with their faith and ability to endure under intense persecution, facing death every day. I often thought, how many Americans would be Christian under this kind of persecution. Very few I am afraid. After several years working there I went to Southern Africa briefly and served as a chaplain for a military unit and then went to the Philippines. I felt called to the Philippines and I already had a home there. I had met and married a Philippina while working in Saudi Arabia.

Upon arriving in the Philippines I immediately began to pray and fast calling on God to show me the mission He had for me. Each day I went to the Cathedral in Imus, Cavite, Philippines to pray. I had done this each day for about a week when I was taking a break from my prayers and was out in the courtyard of the Church and sitting on a bench watching the park across the street. A tricycle (a small motorcycle with a sidecar used as a taxi) driver parked and came over to where I was sitting. After a short pause he asked me if I was a priest. I told him no but that I was a Protestant minister and offered to help. He went on to tell me that he was Catholic and that he had been approached by members of the Iglesia ni Cristo to convert to their faith. I knew their cult reputation and offered to discuss it with him in more detail the next day at the park across the street. He came the next day and had several others with him. The group continued to grow and soon I was teaching the Scriptures to forty people in the park each day and answering the charges of the cult against the Catholic Church. This went on for about six weeks before I decided to have a revival service.

Beside the Cathedral there is a fairly large pavilion where there are all sorts of community activities. It was owned by the Church so I went to the priest and asked if I could use the pavilion. He smiled and said that he would ask the Bishop. I went back the next day and was surprised to learn that they knew of my activities as an apologist in the park and not only offered me the pavilion free of charge but also let me use a sound system. I put out flyers in the market to advertise the revival. I arrived at the revival about 45 minutes early and found the pavilion almost full. I had expected only about a hundred people but there was already close to a thousand people. The people continued to come and filled not only the pavilion but the street, the courtyard of the Cathedral and spilled over to the park across the street. The Police had to block off the street. I was humbled and overcome by what the Spirit had done. I delivered the Gospel message and at the end asked if there was anyone who needed prayers and healing to come forward and I would pray for them. It seemed like the whole crowd surged forward. I panicked and said a quick prayer under my breath. At this moment I heard a voice behind me and looked to find the priest and a group of deacons and seminary students with me. We went among the people prayed and layed hands on them. I was holding the foot of a young man of about 14 who had been crippled since birth with a deformed foot and praying for him when I felt the bones move into place and he was healed. I knew that God had done this not only to heal the young man but to impress me with my mission.

I continued my efforts after this against Philippine cults teaching the Scriptures. I also started teaching lay ministers for the Catholic Church in Scripture. During this time there was an opening at the seminary in Manila for a Latin professor and the Bishop recommended me for the position. Looking back this seems amazing, a Protestant offered a position in a Roman Catholic seminary. I accepted the position and soon I was teaching OT studies, OT prophecy and early Church history as well. I continued my ministry and teaching efforts and learned that my denomination was falling into what I believed was great error. They were investigating the possibility of ordaining practicing homosexuel ministers. My lifelong friend was on the committee and when I talked with him he said it was a done deal and that they were just waiting to see what the impact was going to be in the Episcopal Church and adjust accordingly. I decided at this time that I could no longer continue as a Protestant. I was hit between the eyes with the realization that the Protestant experiment was a failure. That the fundamentals of the movement had left the Protestant movement as a breeding ground for false teaching and constantly changing doctrines. Many of the Churches had adopted a theology of God serving man instead of God being served by man. Among many groups it had become a kind of create your own God , create your own Church. All of this fueled by Protestant fundamental freedoms and the triumph of Humanism within the Protestant movement. I realize this is a gross generalization and I apologize if I have offended anyone.

What I wanted was stability without the influence of Humanist precepts. I wanted to return to the faith of the apostolic Church which I had always embraced. I talked with my colleagues at the seminary and they suggested the Orthodox Church, the Eastern Catholics or the Old Catholics. At the time becoming a RCC priest was not possible in the Philippines which was probably also divine providence because I have some fundamental differences with the RCC. After much investigation I decided on the PNCC and was ordained shortly afterwards. Unfortunately, I was forced to leave my position as a professor because, ironically, it was not acceptable that I teach as a schismatic Catholic but it was OK as a Protestant minister.

I feel that I was always a Catholic, that somehow God had written that on my heart. Becoming a Catholic was a very freeing experience. I no longer had to compromise my teaching to match Protestant doctrines but could preach the uncompromised Word of God. I no longer suffered from the shackles of Sola Scriptura which interfered with the receiving of the entire Word of God and understanding the structure of the Church that Christ created. Even though I continued to look through a glass darkly, things were clearer and descernable as never before. I felt like the prodigal son who had come home into welcoming arms.

God brought me to the Church in steps and challenges. I almost retired from the ministry instead of becoming a priest. I was 50 years old and I thought I was too old to start over in ministry. I was reading a biography about St. Augustine and I found that he did not become a priest until late in life and he accomplished so much in the Church. It was reading about his life that helped me to make the decision to become a priest. He inspired me as well as the sacrifices of St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp. I realized that it was not my choice to retire but it was God's when he decides that my mission is done and brings me home.

In Christ
 
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Bulldog

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murder, if confessed and truely repentant for can be forgiven. same with adultery. not believing Jesus is actually in the host? mmmmm that one may be a bit tricky.

So then Christs blood does not, and and of itself, provide forgiveness for murder?
 
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Saint_George

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Bulldog said:
So then Christs blood does not, and and of itself, provide forgiveness for murder?

Turning away from Christ does not lead you towards him.

And if you murder someone, are you really representing Christ?

Many protestants often talk about the one deadly sin. Blasphemy against the holy spirit. But my approach to this is explained in a simple question. Is there only one way to create blasphemy?

James 2

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

The answer is no. There are many ways to blasphemy the holy spirit, these are seen by catholics as mortal "deadly" sins.

Saint_George
 
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Bulldog

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Saint_George said:
Turning away from Christ does not lead you towards him.

And if you murder someone, are you really representing Christ?

Many protestants often talk about the one deadly sin. Blasphemy against the holy spirit. But my approach to this is explained in a simple question. Is there only one way to create blasphemy?

James 2

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

The answer is no. There are many ways to blasphemy the holy spirit, these are seen by catholics as mortal "deadly" sins.

Saint_George

You're just illustrating the point - you don't believe that Christ's blood actually is suffucient to cover the sin of murder - man's effort is required.
 
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