Are Jews still God's Chosen People ?

[Clare73]

Do you think "If they do not persist in unbelief" is a revealed plan for the nation Israel?

I do in the light of Ro 11:25, below.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
— Romans 11:17

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery⁠—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation⁠—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
— Romans 11:25
I don't know if it says something to you, but to me it does.

It might be helpful to know that "until" (Gr: achri) does not necessarily mean a change of things (Ac 23:1, Ac 26:22, Ro 5:13, Ro 8:22,
1 Co 4:11, 2 Co 3:14, Php 1:5).
In this case, "fullness of Gentiles" could (and probably does) mean the end of time. . .hardening (of all but a remnant, Ro 11:5)
until the fullness of the Gentiles (which does not necessarily mean a change, because it could mean the end of time).

The NT reveals that God's plan for Israel is that it be on the same footing as the Gentiles, salvation is by faith in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25), which is turning out to be salvation of only a remnant of all mankind.

 

[zoidar]

I do in the light of Ro 11:25, below.


It might be helpful to know that "until" (Gr: achri) does not necessarily mean a change of things (Ac 23:1, Ac 26:22, Ro 5:13, Ro 8:22,
1 Co 4:11, 2 Co 3:14, Php 1:5).
In this case, "fullness of Gentiles" could (and probably does) mean the end of time.

I like the way you put it here "could (and probably does)". I never thought about it referring to the end of time. Possibly it's so. I don't want to affirm or deny it without studying it further.

. .hardening (of all but a remnant, Ro 11:5)
until the fullness of the Gentiles (which does not necessarily mean a change, because it could mean the end of time).

The NT reveals that God's plan for Israel is that it be on the same footing as the Gentiles, salvation is by faith in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25), which is turning out to be salvation of only a remnant of all mankind.

 

[Cribstyl]

So your point of change began after the cross.

What about the period between that and Acts 15?

The entire book of Act is what happened after the death and resurrection of Jesus. The 12 apostles were told to wait on the Holy Spirit. They were afraid of the same fate as Jesus. When the Holy Spirit showed up as Jesus said He would, the church was born on Pentecost. (Acts 2) Acts 15 shows us whether they should continue following what Moses taught or what Jesus taught.

 

[Cribstyl]

In Christ, there is no longer Jew or Gentile. Have you not read this in the bible?

Most likely a figure of speech to say. it does not matter if you're Jew or Gentile. Or there is no difference between Jew or Gentile.

 

[Guojing]

The entire book of Act is what happened after the death and resurrection of Jesus. The 12 apostles were told to wait on the Holy Spirit. They were afraid of the same fate as Jesus. When the Holy Spirit showed up as Jesus said He would, the church was born on Pentecost. (Acts 2) Acts 15 shows us whether they should continue following what Moses taught or what Jesus taught.

I am asking whether you think the 12 preached that gentiles could now be saved without having "to proselyte through circumcisions and keeping the law.", between Acts 1 and Acts 15?

 

[Cribstyl]

I am asking whether you think the 12 preached that gentiles could now be saved without having "to proselyte through circumcisions and keeping the law.", between Acts 1 and Acts 15?

The 12 preached exclusively to the Jews. Jesus had chosen Paul to preach to the Gentiles.
Galatians chapter 2 is about what happened in Act 15 when Paul met with the 12. (Here are a few texts)
Gal 2:9
¶In fact, James, Peter,[fn] and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.
Gal 2:16
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”[fn]

Gal 2:17¶ But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not!
Gal 2:18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
Gal 2:19 For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God.
Gal 2:20 My old self has been crucified with Christ.[fn] It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

It's clear that Paul taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ (New Covenant) and not the law that Moses preached (Old Covenant) Gal 2:1-26
So, my answer to your question is NO. Because circumcision and keeping the law is not the gospel of the New Covenant.

 

[Guojing]

The 12 preached exclusively to the Jews. Jesus had chosen Paul to preach to the Gentiles.
Galatians chapter 2 is about what happened in Act 15 when Paul met with the 12. (Here are a few texts)
Gal 2:9
¶In fact, James, Peter,[fn] and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.
Gal 2:16
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”[fn]

Gal 2:17¶ But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not!
Gal 2:18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
Gal 2:19 For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God.
Gal 2:20 My old self has been crucified with Christ.[fn] It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

It's clear that Paul taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ (New Covenant) and not the law that Moses preached (Old Covenant) Gal 2:1-26
So, my answer to your question is NO. Because circumcision and keeping the law is not the gospel of the New Covenant.

Okay, so now you are saying it began with Paul, instead of immediately after the cross.

As for Paul preaching the New Covenant, he never actually state that, but that is another topic.

 

[Cribstyl]

Okay, so now you are saying it began with Paul, instead of immediately after the cross.

As for Paul preaching the New Covenant, he never actually state that, but that is another topic.

Heb 9 lets us know that when the curtain was rent (torn) at the cross, Jesus entered the Holy of Holies with His blood to sacrifice for the sins of the world. His blood enacted the New Covenant. What is the New Covenant??? The gospel of Jesus Christ is the New Covenant. The major component of the New Covenant is forgiveness of sins. How can the law stand when forgiveness of sins is being preached??? The law says: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Rom 3 reads clearly as follows;

Rom 3:21 ¶ But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[fn] and the prophets long ago.
(That refer to Jer 31:31-34. when God said clearly: The New Covenant will not be like the covenant made at Sinai) Did God lie??? Those who say that the 10.com gets written on our heart are wrong. God has shown us how to be righteous without the law)
Rom 3:22
We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
Rom 3:23
¶For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Rom 3:24
Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.

What part of YOU'RE NOT UNDER THE LAW means YOU'RE UNDER THE LAW???? If you're under the law, you're rejecting what the blood of Jesus has bought.
We need to keep our eyes on following doctrines taught by Paul and the apostles, and not questions that contradict the truth of the gospel.

So, salvation happened at the cross. The gospel was preached during Christ's ministry and after the cross. Acts reads that Peter was first to lead a Gentile to salvation, but Paul was chosen by Christ as the Apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's epistles contain all the true doctrines of Christianity.

 

[Guojing]

Heb 9 lets us know that when the curtain was rent (torn) at the cross, Jesus entered the Holy of Holies with His blood to sacrifice for the sins of the world. His blood enacted the New Covenant. What is the New Covenant??? The gospel of Jesus Christ is the New Covenant. The major component of the New Covenant is forgiveness of sins. How can the law stand when forgiveness of sins is being preached??? The law says: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Rom 3 reads clearly as follows;

Rom 3:21 ¶ But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[fn] and the prophets long ago.
(That refer to Jer 31:31-34. when God said clearly: The New Covenant will not be like the covenant made at Sinai) Did God lie??? Those who say that the 10.com gets written on our heart are wrong. God has shown us how to be righteous without the law)
Rom 3:22
We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
Rom 3:23
¶For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Rom 3:24
Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.

What part of YOU'RE NOT UNDER THE LAW means YOU'RE UNDER THE LAW???? If you're under the law, you're rejecting what the blood of Jesus has bought.
We need to keep our eyes on following doctrines taught by Paul and the apostles, and not questions that contradict the truth of the gospel.

So, salvation happened at the cross. The gospel was preached during Christ's ministry and after the cross. Acts reads that Peter was first to lead a Gentile to salvation, but Paul was chosen by Christ as the Apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's epistles contain all the true doctrines of Christianity.

Why do you think Paul wrote the book of Hebrews?

As for Romans 3:21, there is no clear link to the New Covenant, but if you want to believe it does, I will leave you at that.

 

[Second Time is the Charm]

Are Jews still God's Chosen people?

I think so. Hateful nations have been trying to take the land of Israel away from Jews since their return to it, but they haven't been successful so far. God did say in the Bible that He won't let it be taken from them anymore, so who am I to argue about that?

I also see some posts say that Jews aren't God people, but if God is keeping them in that land, then it looks like God sees them as His people. It doesn't really matter what we think - prophecy will go according to what God thinks and plans.

 

[Canuckster]

Are Jews still God's Chosen people?

Are Jews still God's Chosen people?

No one can have an honest debate about “Jews” on any discussion board on the Internet or social media platform with out getting their butts banned, especially on Christian discussion boards. But I will say this: as far as I’m concerned the vast majority of so-called “Jews” today are not “chosen” but are mentioned by the Lord in Revelation 3: 9 ...and those will be the fortunate ones.

 

[Clare73]

Why do you think Paul wrote the book of Hebrews?

As for Romans 3:21, there is no clear link to the New Covenant, but if you want to believe it does, I will leave you at that.

"Now" is pretty clear.

 

[Second Time is the Charm]

No one can have an honest debate about “Jews” on any discussion board on the Internet or social media platform with out getting their butts banned, especially on Christian discussion boards. But I will say this: as far as I’m concerned the vast majority of so-called “Jews” today are not “chosen” but are mentioned by the Lord in Revelation 3: 9 ...and those will be the fortunate ones.

I think the reason why God protects Jews is because He is ultimately protecting the seed that will eventually be born and follow Him (Revelation 3:9). Can't have the Chosen if you kill off their descendants.

 

[Canuckster]

I think the reason why God protects Jews is because He is ultimately protecting the seed that will eventually be born and follow Him (Revelation 3:9). Can't have the Chosen if you kill off their descendants.

your reply doesn't relate to my comment or Rev 3:9 at all

 

[Second Time is the Charm]

your reply doesn't relate to my comment or Rev 3:9 at all

Lol, oh you're right! I should have read that verse! But yeah, I really do believe God won't get rid of any Jews, because they carry the seed that will come to the Lord and be saved! Lol, sorry about that!

 

[Guojing]

"Now" is pretty clear.

Something has changed now, that is pretty clear.

As to whether the change refers to the New Covenant, it was not stated.

 

[Canuckster]

I really do believe God won't get rid of any Jews....

God will get rid of anyone who's not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, Jew or otherwise. Revelation 21: 27

 

[Clare73]

Something has changed now, that is pretty clear.

As to whether the change refers to the New Covenant, it was not stated.

Poor hermeneutics. . .

"Now" refers to the time in which the writer is living; i.e., the New Covenant.

 

[Second Time is the Charm]

God will get rid of anyone who's not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, Jew or otherwise. Revelation 21: 27

I know some Jews will come to the Lord for salvation, so they will be in the Lamb's Book of Life. As a matter of fact, there are already Jews that I know who have already given their lives to the Lord and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Do you at least love those Jews?

 

[Second Time is the Charm]

God will get rid of anyone who's not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, Jew or otherwise. Revelation 21: 27

Also, do you think your own name is in the Lamb's Book of Life? If so, why?