Are heresy hunters...necessary?

[Zugzwang]

Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

(Let me begin by saying that this (mostly) has to do with the Driscoll/Macarthur fiasco thread about Driscoll "invading" MacArthur's conference, and the many points that were made during that thread.)

Two key words in this verse, that sadly, most christians, (imo) believe to apply to the world, when in reality, it applies to the church.

Love=agape. Greek word for love that only God can give, therefore applies to Christians only.

Many=pollōn. Which can mean most, and in several instances can mean even more than that. (Instances of pollon. Greek Concordance: πολλῶν (pollōn) -- 39 Occurrences

When I see most posters on this forum stand up for certain pastors, (and by some I mean most) I have to ask the obvious; do you even know what scripture says about THIS time in this age? If my reading of this particular scripture is correct, then that would explain alot of other scriptures, and the reason WHY things are happening today that scripture predicted.

This explains the falling away. This explains why, if the US continues to behave in this manner, we are no longer "relevant" as a church, (and have no real bearing after the rapture; king of the north, south, east, no west, etc) This explains so many things...yet we continue to have ppl defend these actions of these "pastors" despite the fact that these ppl have already been called out by scripture itself!

HOW can you defend ppl when scripture says otherwise? I mean, do we really need to define the word "many" ? I don't understand the logic behind this kind of mentality, I really don't.

As for those HH that think/believe/act that "the ends justifies the means" however, certainly not. You are a liar/deceiver, you destroy your "witness", and if that line of thinking was appropriate Jesus WOULDN'T have said "my kingdom is not of this world." b/c in this world, the end DOES justify the means. One perfect example in particular from that last thread was that Driscoll stated that Jesus was tempted, "in all ways".

He was! Scripture says so, otherwise what Jesus did in the flesh was a sham, unless He was tempted just as we are! What's wrong with that?! This is much like the LIE that the rapture wasn't taught/believed before 1880. This is a lie too! Why do ppl do this, I have no idea!

Faulty's rebuke about Driscoll "throwing ppl under the bus" here's the link for clarification Fighting for the Faith: Mark Driscoll Brags About Pile of Bodies Behind Mars Hill's Bus

I don't have a problem with what Driscoll said here, I really don't. In a way, this is a form of biblical shunning, which protects the church from the sinning believer. (After various steps have been taken beforehand; one on one two on one pastor vs one, before whole church.)

The problem I do have however, is Driscoll's "chuckling" about the shunning. It's disgraceful. Not a darn thing funny/cute about it. That, imo, is the bigger problem, b/c it reveals his heart condition. That's a SAD thing, nothing humorous at ALL, and those that would laugh about that...probably shouldn't have anything to do with that procedure, period.

Finally, have either of these two pastors called each other on the phone & discussed it? Or tried to? Or did they just go public? If neither tried to, scripturally, THEY'RE BOTH WRONG. Again, there is a procedure for how to go about doing things, IN ORDER BIBLICALLY. When they don't happen, don't expect any godly fruit to come from the circumstances.

Some here believe come on this board mainly just to harass/malign other christians/pastors & believers. Not so! (Although Im sure there are some here that do just that) But the simple truth is, biblically, it's actually worse out there than most here believe, and when these christians come here to point out these things, you not only malign them, you malign scripture.

As I have taught my children when they were young, the end of all things predict four major things:

1. one world religion
2. one world economy
3. one world govt
4. one world ruler

How did you honestly expected it to end? Sound preaching? Holiness? Repentance? Forgiveness?

The bible says we are the salt of the Earth, but if that salt loses its flavor...

IOW, it's not the world's fault for being worldly, it's the churches fault for not being holy. (And scripture says this, in more than one passage)

What say you? Does anyone here have an ear?

 

[rdclmn72]

Heresy hunters have a small audience and have an insignificant impact on christianity, they are neither evangelists or pastors, they are parasites.

 

[Yitzchak]

I don't think that we need heresy hunters if heresy hunters are defined as ministries which focus exclusively upon exposing false people. I think that leaders within the church need to be alert to dangers to the church, both doctrinal and wolves who infiltrate the church.

I also think that sectarian bias about non essential issues, which presents itself as heresy hunting is wrong. Better to just be honest and admit that there are those who see certain issues differently , but are within the bounds of the faith.

But there is a place for pointing out serious error publicly.

 

[Faulty]

Faulty's rebuke about Driscoll "throwing ppl under the bus" here's the link for clarification Fighting for the Faith: Mark Driscoll Brags About Pile of Bodies Behind Mars Hill's Bus

I don't have a problem with what Driscoll said here, I really don't. In a way, this is a form of biblical shunning, which protects the church from the sinning believer. (After various steps have been taken beforehand; one on one two on one pastor vs one, before whole church.)

You should have paid attention to what he said a little closer. He wasn't protecting his church from a sinning believer. He was discarding people who disagreed with his "vision" for his church. I've never found a verse for that "protection".

As for heresy hunter's, keep in mind that's a term created by people who call themselves believers as a way to malign and alienate fellow believers because they don't like what they say, which is in essence what they say the "hunters" are guilty of in one fashion or another. In short, they are complete hypocrites.

 

[hislegacy]

I suppose if you don't read much, are not familiar with scripture I guess some might find them helpful.

 

[Biblicist]

. . . IOW, it's not the world's fault for being worldly, it's the churches fault for not being holy. (And scripture says this, in more than one passage)

What say you? Does anyone here have an ear?

Sadly, your remark is spot on.

When I see most posters on this forum stand up for certain pastors, (and by some I mean most) I have to ask the obvious; do you even know what scripture says about THIS time in this age? If my reading of this particular scripture is correct, then that would explain a lot of other scriptures, and the reason WHY things are happening today that scripture predicted.

Without putting any words into your mouth, one aspect of CF and probably with many believers in general, is that there does seem to be a strong dependence not only on a various individual ministries but with the celebrity status that is attached to them. For me, one of the more disturbing aspects of this often blind adherence, is with how so many will take personal offence when their champions views are challenged; I appreciate that for many, their allegiance to these individuals can be simply that they need someone to give them meaning and some direction in their lives.

When I see most posters on this forum stand up for certain pastors, (and by some I mean most) I have to ask the obvious; do you even know what scripture says about THIS time in this age? If my reading of this particular scripture is correct, then that would explain a lot of other scriptures, and the reason WHY things are happening today that scripture predicted.

When I came across the article on Driscolls actions at MacArthurs meeting, I thought, what an interesting stand and of course it had to be Driscoll who probably has more nerve than most ministries. But the point was not so much that it was Driscoll, which admittedly would be a bit of an issue for some, but that a well known ministry actually made a stand against MacArthurs worldliness. I never did find out if Driscoll actually sat through one of the conference sessions.

Finally, have either of these two pastors called each other on the phone & discussed it? Or tried to? Or did they just go public? If neither tried to, scripturally, THEY'RE BOTH WRONG. Again, there is a procedure for how to go about doing things, IN ORDER BIBLICALLY. When they don't happen, don't expect any godly fruit to come from the circumstances.

From what I can tell about MacArthur, it seems that he tends to avoid discussing his views with those who are better able to address his often very faulty premises; I gather that Charisma tried to arrange an interview with him regarding his upcoming Strangefire conference but he went to ground. If anyone has any links to where MacArthur has either discussed or debated his “Roger Rabbit” views of the NT with reputable Full Gospel notables then I know that I would certainly love to see them.


Are heresy hunters...necessary?

As for the ‘heresy hunters being necessary’, if nothing else, as they are here to stay and that they at times have some worthwhile things to comment on, then I guess that we can always gain a bit of relevant information on some of the more problematic ministries that we may which we many not always come across during our normal travels. Often I’ve come across some of their information merely while perusing for some online information but once I’ve been alerted to a given issue then I will always seek information from more reputable or maybe less biased sources.

 

[BlunderAngel]

Heresy Hunters precede pyre burnings of heretics.
The thread that reports a NC pastor and his congregation scheduling a bible burning on Halloween but one example of heresy hunting and what evolves from that mindset.
People who burn books will justify why it becomes necessary to burn people.

 

[Yitzchak]

You should have paid attention to what he said a little closer. He wasn't protecting his church from a sinning believer. He was discarding people who disagreed with his "vision" for his church. I've never found a verse for that "protection".

As for heresy hunter's, keep in mind that's a term created by people who call themselves believers as a way to malign and alienate fellow believers because they don't like what they say, which is in essence what they say the "hunters" are guilty of in one fashion or another. In short, they are complete hypocrites.

I would define the term heresy hunter in a different way than your description here. First of all , as the term hunter implies , there is a self proclaimed role being played by the heresy hunters. it is not simply that they oppose heresy. They make it the entire focus of their time and efforts. At best , this is an out of balance focus for a Christian to have.

Add to that the fact that many of them are a apart of separatist factions of the church which comprise a very small and radical portion of the church. therefore they judge others whom they have very little to do with and not as constructive criticism coming from someone who is a part of the mainstream church. In other words they have already prejudged the vast majority of the church as apostate and now it is just a matter of finding dirt to support their bias. In that context of having rejected the vast majority of the church as false , they lose credibility for their exaggerated claims which often resemble the National enquirer.

It is within this context that I use the term heresy hunter in a pejorative way. I would not say that makes me a hypocrite. I don't make it my life's mission to dig up dirt on them. But I do speak bluntly concerning what I think about their attacks upon the church. This began after I visited a few of the heresy hunter websites and discovered the context for their accusations against the latest Christian leader. On their website , there were list of hundreds of well known Christian leaders. Anyone from Billy Graham to Joyce Meyer to Benny Hinn to Mike Bickle. It seemed that they were against everyone except for their very , very small minority that was their camp. I lost all respect for what they are attempting to do , at that point.

There are a few notable exceptions who put more effort into a quality product even though they are against a lot of the church.People like Dave Hunt and David Wilkerson fall into this category for me.



I think all of this is quite different from people who are a part of the church and they are monitoring the movements which they are a part of. They have a desire for purity and are zealous to spot error from within what they consider to be the true church.

I also can appreciate the heresy hunting that is well done such as a few of the videos you recommended to me a while back.Those had some substance behind them and I found them informative and a good source for launching more study on those issues. I would not neccesarially apply the term heresy hunter to those videos although they loosely fall into that category.

I reserve the pejorative term heresy hunter for those who seem obsessed with finding fault and give the appearance that they would employ the same methods if their cause was politics instead of religion. The mudslingers and dirty campaigners and those who just like the high they get from putting others down. Granted this is a judgment of them , on my part. But one that I feel is well earned by the heresy hunter websites which I visited.

 

[bushinoki]

In response to this thread, we as Christians have a responsibility, to the Lord GOD Almighty, not to be backbiting because we don't like the way someone preaches. We don't need full time heresy hunters as a part of the body, but we do need true evidence that someone is preaching a heresy before we call him out in an aggressive way.

 

[Messy]

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers

Think the heresy hunters gave themselves to the body.

 

[probinson]

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers

Think the heresy hunters gave themselves to the body.

Best. Quote. Ever.