Are Gentiles God's chosen people?

[daq]

Ethnos is like goyim in that it can basically mean "nation(s)", "gentile(s)", or "heathen" depending on the context. In the epistle to the Romans Paul employs not only ethnos but also hellen, (Greeks) and barbaros, (foreigner or barbarian) and states in Romans 1:14 that he is "a debtor to both the Greeks and to the Barbaros". What then does he intend when he uses ethnos in the context of the entire epistle? Does he really mean gentiles as widely rendered or does he rather mean heathen or nations in other places? The context of Romans 11 must take into account what is written before that chapter throughout the epistle, (and must take into account the Testimony of Yeshua; for example Luke 11:24-26, which is related though it may not appear to be so on the surface). Perhaps then when the fulness of the heathen have come in that is when the Deliverer shall come, (each in his or her own appointed times). And in the same manner shall all Yisrael be delivered, (each in his or her own appointed times). So when you "see" your little beloved city surrounded by armies, (we wrestle not against flesh and blood) know that the desolation thereof is nigh at hand.

 

[Digout]

You seem to ignore what you quote.

God has not rejected his people, permanently. Yisrael will ALWAYS be his people, his nation, his servant; the private part of God's body that he covers with Torah.

God never rejected all people of His own creation. He chose some to train them up to teach His ways. When they failed, they were rejected for their undoings and sent His Son to finally to show the way that allows only those who believe in Him and His ways. The rest stand rejected. What was the chosen race now stands out.

 

[mercy1061]

You seem to ignore what follows:

Romans 11

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23
And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

The latter does not negate the former, the latter is held up by the former. The former gives birth to what comes later. It is not wise to destroy the foundation in order to save the house.

 

[pshun2404]

Just remember that neither Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob were Jewish...this may help put things in perspective...

 

[danny ski]

I see. G-d promised us EVERLASTING COVENANT, then he changed his mind? Even though he promised "I will never break my covenant with you(...)" Now, we're rejected? Hmm, I think I'll stay with the Torah's message.

 

[pshun2404]

I see. G-d promised us EVERLASTING COVENANT, then he changed his mind? Even though he promised "I will never break my covenant with you(...)" Now, we're rejected? Hmm, I think I'll stay with the Torah's message.

Dan...who were you responding to...which post??? I am curious because God does not forget and He is faithful to His word, He is a covenant keeping God, but not all covenants are about receiving eternal life, and some are dependent on the human side being kept...

So I would ask who implied God changed His mind? The Covenant made with Israel at Horeb is very specific....IF YOU DO thus and so....THEN I WILL...BUT IF YOU DO NOT, Then I WILL...

Both the do and do not, the I will and the Iwill are all part of that everlasting covenant...for those with whom this covenant is made, its good and bad consequences were part of the covenant...remember it is OUR SIN that separates us from HIM...

Did I misunderstand? PLease tell me if I did I love humility...

 

[daq]

No man is rejected by the Father so long as today is today and the man has breath left in him. But perhaps some of what has been written here is what happens when a person is taught that he or she is "saved" for all eternity simply by a one time confession of "belief" in a particular set of systematic beliefs. No one can tell such a one any different because he or she is suddenly become endued with a false sense of righteousness and therefore anyone who disagrees with his or her paradigm is "rejected" until they "repent" and agree with the proposed paradigm. No one gets to choose the date of his or her "salvation" as so many assume. It is presumptuous, and probably an offence to the Most High, and even flies in the face of what Paul truly says about the matter. Yet this is essentially what modern Christianity has taught for so long a time now, and salvation has nearly become a registered trademark of the modern shepherds, and unless you agree to uphold the dogmaton you are an outsider. They say there is nothing anyone can do as far as "works" to earn "salvation", (and thus the Law needs to be abolished from their minds) but at the same time they themselves refuse to admit that the "sinners prayer" in itself is indeed a "work" of man. So the adherent does his one work and "repents" and walla! walla! saved for all eternity. Such a one is fooling himself to think that he is "saved" just because he offered up an initial prayer of repentance, (even though it was serious). That initial day of sealing implies only a new birth into a family, such as an infant, and not the day wherein a child becomes a true son. He that endures unto the end shall be saved.

 

[Digout]

The latter does not negate the former, the latter is held up by the former. The former gives birth to what comes later. It is not wise to destroy the foundation in order to save the house.

Yes, the OT is the foundation. We live in the house, not on the bare foundation. And no need to dig at the foundation.

 

[Digout]

Just remember that neither Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob were Jewish...this may help put things in perspective...

One may want to add Job too!

 

[Digout]

No man is rejected by the Father so long as today is today and the man has breath left in him. But perhaps some of what has been written here is what happens when a person is taught that he or she is "saved" for all eternity simply by a one time confession of "belief" in a particular set of systematic beliefs. No one can tell such a one any different because he or she is suddenly become endued with a false sense of righteousness and therefore anyone who disagrees with his or her paradigm is "rejected" until they "repent" and agree with the proposed paradigm. No one gets to choose the date of his or her "salvation" as so many assume. It is presumptuous, and probably an offence to the Most High, and even flies in the face of what Paul truly says about the matter. Yet this is essentially what modern Christianity has taught for so long a time now, and salvation has nearly become a registered trademark of the modern shepherds, and unless you agree to uphold the dogmaton you are an outsider. They say there is nothing anyone can do as far as "works" to earn "salvation", (and thus the Law needs to be abolished from their minds) but at the same time they themselves refuse to admit that the "sinners prayer" in itself is indeed a "work" of man. So the adherent does his one work and "repents" and walla! walla! saved for all eternity. Such a one is fooling himself to think that he is "saved" just because he offered up an initial prayer of repentance, (even though it was serious). That initial day of sealing implies only a new birth into a family, such as an infant, and not the day wherein a child becomes a true son. He that endures unto the end shall be saved.

 

[pshun2404]

No man is rejected by the Father so long as today is today and the man has breath left in him. But perhaps some of what has been written here is what happens when a person is taught that he or she is "saved" for all eternity simply by a one time confession of "belief" in a particular set of systematic beliefs. No one can tell such a one any different because he or she is suddenly become endued with a false sense of righteousness and therefore anyone who disagrees with his or her paradigm is "rejected" until they "repent" and agree with the proposed paradigm. No one gets to choose the date of his or her "salvation" as so many assume. It is presumptuous, and probably an offence to the Most High, and even flies in the face of what Paul truly says about the matter. Yet this is essentially what modern Christianity has taught for so long a time now, and salvation has nearly become a registered trademark of the modern shepherds, and unless you agree to uphold the dogmaton you are an outsider. They say there is nothing anyone can do as far as "works" to earn "salvation", (and thus the Law needs to be abolished from their minds) but at the same time they themselves refuse to admit that the "sinners prayer" in itself is indeed a "work" of man. So the adherent does his one work and "repents" and walla! walla! saved for all eternity. Such a one is fooling himself to think that he is "saved" just because he offered up an initial prayer of repentance, (even though it was serious). That initial day of sealing implies only a new birth into a family, such as an infant, and not the day wherein a child becomes a true son. He that endures unto the end shall be saved.

I agree Daq...I might not have out in those words but thats right...many "presume" salvation because of a momentary prayer or they were told to take a bath but you shall know them by their fruits

 

[danny ski]

Dan...who were you responding to...which post??? I am curious because God does not forget and He is faithful to His word, He is a covenant keeping God, but not all covenants are about receiving eternal life, and some are dependent on the human side being kept...

So I would ask who implied God changed His mind? The Covenant made with Israel at Horeb is very specific....IF YOU DO thus and so....THEN I WILL...BUT IF YOU DO NOT, Then I WILL...

Both the do and do not, the I will and the Iwill are all part of that everlasting covenant...for those with whom this covenant is made, its good and bad consequences were part of the covenant...remember it is OUR SIN that separates us from HIM...

Did I misunderstand? PLease tell me if I did I love humility...

just commenting on conversation on page 40. I guess I'm kind of tired and bored with any discussion that , includes the concept of grafting without following the Torah(ridiculous), veiled/blind Jews, etc. The contract G-d made with us comes with conditions, but it is unconditional and irrevocable. Why I say it's unconditional? Because any lost Jew has the right to return to his G-d and G-d, by His own promise, must accept him. "Return to me and I will return to you"- if if I remember correctly. Where in the Torah does it say that G-d will withhold mercy to repentant person? And, in a nutshell, that's the idea behind rejection of Jews. We've sinned so badly, G-d had to find Himself new people. I will never believe such thing, and I dismiss all who hold such belief.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

Shalom, DaveW-Ohev

I had forgotten all about providing additional links for you on the 18 measures of Shammai. So, here they are. Please bear in mind that I do not completely agree with everything on these websites, nor do I wish to enter into debate concerning said website, and the material found there. Thank you for your patience!

The Eighteen Measures of Shammai Study Links

1) The Jewish Carpenter
2) What you never knew about the Pharisees
3) What you never knew about the New Testament’s view of the Law
4) Rambam
5) Article on Shabbat 9a-15b

When you are finished reading those, I'll be more than happy to give you additional links. Just ask, my friend.

Dave, could you please acknowledge whether or not you saw this post with the links you asked for? I thought maybe we could discuss it further in a new thread. It is one of the most important teachings for students of the New Testament to know, and fully understand. Yeshua was in no way anti-Pharisee, or anti-Judaism. In fact, he was an Beit Hillel Pharisee IMHO.

 

[Elvia Castaneda]

As the title states, do you guys believe that Gentiles (together with Jews) are God's chosen people?[/QUOTE]

No, I don't. As the author stated, the Jews were chosen for a special work. It's not to say that God loved the Jews more than the Gentiles, nor that the Jews are greater than the Gentiles, just that the Jews were chosen to lead the world on the path to salvation. They were to teach the Gentiles; the rest of the world, God's ways.

 

[The Gryphon]

The Jews and in particular the Israeli Jews are the Chosen People of G_d. It does not matter that most of the Jews in Israel today are not religious as G_d is faithful to perform His Word! G_d has said He will regather the Jews in their land He has given them and He would save all the Jews upon Yeshua's Second Coming! Look up Israel as the G_d of Israel is watching over you and is sending your Messiah! Come quickly oh Lord to defend your land, defend your people and establish your kingdom upon this earth that all will see and know You oh Lord are the God of Israel! Messianic Jews understand G_d's plan often times much better than MANY Christians because they understand as the Apostle Paul did and states in Romans 11 the status of the Jews in the sight of G_d so that Christians might not get a boastful spirit as some were doing.




View the videos carefully and prayerfully.

22 Bible verses about Jews As God's Chosen People - 410 Bible verses about Jews As God's Chosen People < click to view material

Now salvation is for everyone through Christ Jesus which is different. John 14:6
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[visionary]

The Jews and in particular the Israeli Jews are the Chosen People of G_d. It does not matter that most of the Jews in Israel today are not religious as G_d is faithful to perform His Word! G_d has said He will regather the Jews in their land He has given them and He would save all the Jews upon Yeshua's Second Coming! Look up Israel as the G_d of Israel is watching over you and is sending your Messiah!

22 Bible verses about Jews As God's Chosen People - 410 Bible verses about Jews As God's Chosen People < click to view material

Now salvation is for everyone through Christ Jesus which is different. John 14:6
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jews were chosen to be the keepers of Torah, the teachers of Torah, and the chosen people through which Yeshua is born into.

 

[The Gryphon]

Jews were chosen to be the keepers of Torah, the teachers of Torah, and the chosen people through which Yeshua is born into.

They are also chosen for more during His Millennial Reign upon Earth after Yeshua's Second Coming (when all Jews in Israel will be saved) and before the coming of the New Earth, New Heaven and New Jerusalem.

 

[visionary]

They are also chosen for more during His Millennial Reign upon Earth after Yeshua's Second Coming (when all Jews in Israel will be saved) and before the coming of the New Earth, New Heaven and New Jerusalem.

Probably in the role of elders, judges, and the 144,000 according to scripture during the millenium.

 

[American Gothic]

Israel is an elect Nation.
The Church is an elect Body. (consisting of people from many nations, Israel included)
So yes, Gentile believers are chosen people.

"Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2
"For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from....stones." Matthew 3

 

[Laureate]

As the title states, do you guys believe that Gentiles (together with Jews) are God's chosen people?

Gentiles are Gentiles, Abvraham was called out from them, and so are we, when we here and follow the Covenant Voice, then are we His people, the Torah and Testimony of (Î)yésʰûʷəʰ teaches us how to take hold of the Covenant.

When it has all been said and done, Egypt will be deemed His people along with Assyria His Craftsmanship, and Israel (Apʰrîyém the Egyptian-Assyrian half breed) His inheritance.

A Tree is recognized by the fruit it Bears, not the Fruit it used to Bear.

When we continue to refer to a Convert (who is in the midsts of Conversion) as a Gentile we promote Confusion, for we are No Longer Strangers, but Fellow Citizens of the same house.

Of course the King of all the Prideful is proud of his prideful children who feel the need to exercise a superiority complex over his siblings, the Vine has in-ebri-ated them.