Are different Sabbaths true?

[guevaraj]

The first statement is false for Eden - it should read like the second statement for Eden.

Brother, human thought does not override what God wrote. An "evening" can only occur after the light. Before the light there was "darkness" and not an "evening", those are different words that are not interchangeable. The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. The first day in Genesis below is from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, the best Idea I've heard for finding the latitude is that continents move but the fault lines stay the same, even after the flood. I heard the idea that the original rivers in Eden were in these unchanging fault lines that stayed with us even after the flood. If all of that is true, then we can use the rivers in Eden to find the latitude of Eden within the given longitude. This is too speculative for me, but it's the best idea I've ever heard for finding the latitude of Eden.

A river flowed from the land of Eden, watering the garden and then dividing into four branches. The first branch, called the Pishon, flowed around the entire land of Havilah, where gold is found. The gold of that land is exceptionally pure; aromatic resin and onyx stone are also found there. The second branch, called the Gihon, flowed around the entire land of Cush. The third branch, called the Tigris, flowed east of the land of Asshur. The fourth branch is called the Euphrates. (Genesis 2:10-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Well, two issues that come up in my mind:

It isn't possible to calculate sunrise time without knowing the latitude, since sunrise changes throughout the year at different latitudes.

Also, the 145th west latitude is way out in the pacific, thousands of miles away from the Tigris and Euphrates today. Are you thinking those rivers used to flow way over into what is now the Pacific?

145th meridian west - Wikipedia

 

[guevaraj]

Well, two issues that come up in my mind: It isn't possible to calculate sunrise time without knowing the latitude, since sunrise changes throughout the year at different latitudes.

Brother, in terms of keeping the Sabbath, the site of Eden is not important! What is important is that entered is the Sabbath by everyone together, when it starts in the Promised Land it starts everywhere.

Also, the 145th west latitude is way out in the pacific, thousands of miles away from the Tigris and Euphrates today. Are you thinking those rivers used to flow way over into what is now the Pacific? 145th meridian west - Wikipedia

Washed away were rivers based on mountains and valleys by the flood, only rivers based on something that was not changed by the flood, such as fault lines, remain after the flood. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, in terms of keeping the Sabbath, the site of Eden is not important! What is important is that entered is the Sabbath by everyone together, when it starts in the Promised Land it starts everywhere.

Washed away were rivers based on mountains and valleys by the flood, only rivers based on something that was not changed by the flood, such as fault lines, remain after the flood. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Sabbath the world over starts at the same time everywhere, which is sunset in Canaan?

And this is because Canaan is 180° west of Eden?

And Sabbath begins at sunrise in Eden?

 

[HARK!]

Brother, I understand that the garden is inside Eden and not outside Eden.

The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. (Genesis 2:15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

(CLV) Gn 2:10
A stream was flowing forth from Eden to irrigate the garden; from there it parted and became four headstream

 

[guevaraj]

Sabbath the world over starts at the same time everywhere, which is sunset in Canaan? And this is because Canaan is 180° west of Eden? And Sabbath begins at sunrise in Eden?

Brother, yes, I think your comment of 180° means that you understood that God's message in Hebrews 3 and 4 means that we all enter the Sabbath together. Your earlier reminder that sunrise changes with latitude has made me appreciate that Eden is close to Rekareka in both latitude and longitude. It's the closest place I found to Eden.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

(CLV) Gn 2:10
A stream was flowing forth from Eden to irrigate the garden; from there it parted and became four headstream

Brother, I did see that verse! Then I looked to see if it's a human tradition to call it the "Garden of Eden" or if it's in the Bible.

The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. (Genesis 2:15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, yes, I think your comment of 180° means that you understood that God's message in Hebrews 3 and 4 means that we all enter the Sabbath together. Your earlier reminder that sunrise changes with latitude has made me appreciate that Eden is close to Rekareka in both latitude and longitude. It's the closest place I found to Eden.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So everywhere in the world, the Sabbath begins at sunset in modern day Israel?

 

[guevaraj]

So everywhere in the world, the Sabbath begins at sunset in modern day Israel?

Brother, yes! That is the message of Hebrews 3 and 4. The "good news" (how to enter) that God wants us to obey was heard by Joshua before David, but it did Joshua no good.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Hebrews 3 and 4 compares us (in the present) to "them" (in the desert). "Them" (in the desert) who mostly died, except those who came to the Promised Land, like Joshua. Joshua entered the Sabbath (in the Promised Land), but was unsuccessful in giving "them" (in the desert) the "rest" (the seventh day in Eden) of God because the "good news" (how to enter) cleared up with Manna for 40 years did Joshua no good. God wants us (in the present) to believe what Joshua heard that did him no good. Joshua experienced how God prevented "them" (in the desert) by "oath" from entering God's "rest" (the seventh day in Eden) with Manna near the Promised Land for 40 years. The "good news" (how to enter) that Joshua heard but did him no good opposes the Sabbath (in the Promised Land) as the seventh day of the week.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:6-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, yes! That is the message of Hebrews 3 and 4. The "good news" (how to enter) that God wants us to obey was heard by Joshua before David, but it did Joshua no good.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Hebrews 3 and 4 compares us (in the present) to "them" (in the desert). "Them" (in the desert) who mostly died, except those who came to the Promised Land, like Joshua. Joshua entered the Sabbath (in the Promised Land), but was unsuccessful in giving "them" (in the desert) the "rest" (the seventh day in Eden) of God because the "good news" (how to enter) cleared up with Manna for 40 years did Joshua no good. God wants us (in the present) to believe what Joshua heard that did him no good. Joshua experienced how God prevented "them" (in the desert) by "oath" from entering God's "rest" (the seventh day in Eden) with Manna near the Promised Land for 40 years. The "good news" (how to enter) that Joshua heard but did him no good opposes the Sabbath (in the Promised Land) as the seventh day of the week.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:6-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Thanks for the information.

Peace be with you, my brother!

 

[HARK!]

Brother, I did see that verse! Then I looked to see if it's a human tradition to call it the "Garden of Eden" or if it's in the Bible.

The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. (Genesis 2:15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Sort of like a government of the people is actually the people; and the property of the government is actually the government; so in the end the property is actually the people?

I wonder if this why some worship the creation of God as god.

 

[guevaraj]

The first statement is false for Eden - it should read like the second statement for Eden.

Brother, an "evening" can only occur after the light. Before the light there was "darkness" and not an "evening", those are different words that are not interchangeable. The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. The first day in Genesis below is from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

The angel told us what we will learn after learning "what even is". We will learn "when it is"! Even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in the Promised Land is not as supposed a day of the week. Note that the angel speaks positively that we will "understand, but not yet, not yet". God helped our church understand the longest time to make this correction by holding an incorrect hour for more than 8 years before doing the Bible study to learn more.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

The first statement is false for Eden - it should read like the second statement for Eden.

Eden's Sabbath begins and ends at sunset

Which is how the 7th day follows the sixth day.

Gen 1:
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Which means the 7th day could only start at "evening".

This is not "rocket science" - as they say.

Brother, an "evening" can only occur after the light.

Still leaves us with the Sabbath in Eden starting in the evening.

 

[guevaraj]

Still leaves us with the Sabbath in Eden starting in the evening.

Brother, not if you understand that an "evening" can only happen after the light. That means that the first "evening" fell in the middle of the first day and not as originally mistakenly assumed begins the first day because the Sabbath in the Promised Land does not fall on a day of the week. The first day in Genesis below is from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was LIGHT. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, calculating a Sabbath in Jerusalem at sunset before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem at sunrise with the sunset and sunrise times below gives me an earlier time for the Sabbath of 13 hours before the seventh day of the week: 12 - 5 + 6 = 13.
Friday, February 11, 2022, sunset at 5:22 PM
Saturday, February 12, 2022, sunrise at 6:23 AM
The sun travels from right to left westward on the following map. If we go backwards from left to right from evening to morning in Jerusalem we get the 13-hour result above that takes the long path eastward from the International Date Line to Jerusalem. Eden is at zero with 23 other time zones until returning to the same zero point on the International Date Line. I calculate the shorter westward path from the International Date Line to Jerusalem by inverting the result: 23 - 13 = 10 hours from the International Date Line to Jerusalem.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

(This discussion continued from
Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)? )

Are you using as your starting point sunrise in Jerusalem or sunrise in Eden?

 

[guevaraj]

Are you using as your starting point sunrise in Jerusalem or sunrise in Eden?

Brother, I start with an evening Sabbath at sunset in Jerusalem.

This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:32 NLT)​

Then get the distance from the evening at sunset above to the next morning at sunrise on the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. This distance is the longest way from Jerusalem to the International Date Line. The reverse of this long path gives us the short path from an evening at sunset in Jerusalem to a morning at sunrise in Eden. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, I start with an evening Sabbath at sunset in Jerusalem.

This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:32 NLT)​

Then get the distance from the evening at sunset above to the next morning at sunrise on the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. This distance is the longest way from Jerusalem to the International Date Line. The reverse of this long path gives us the short path from an evening at sunset in Jerusalem to a morning at sunrise in Eden. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Okay, wait... The distance from sunset to sunrise... Is that definitely a distance or would it be a time?

 

[guevaraj]

Okay, wait... The distance from sunset to sunrise... Is that definitely a distance or would it be a time?

Brother, happy Sabbath! The separation of the Sabbath from the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem is a time difference that comes as a result of the distance from Jerusalem to the International Date Line where Eden was. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The separation of the Sabbath from the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem is a time difference that comes as a result of the distance from Jerusalem to the International Date Line where Eden was. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So the Sabbath that starts at sunset in Jerusalem, that's not the start of the 7th day?

 

[guevaraj]

So the Sabbath that starts at sunset in Jerusalem, that's not the start of the 7th day?

Brother, happy Sabbath! All the days of creation end in what God called "night" from "evening" to "morning" because they begin with what God called "day" from "morning "to "evening". An "evening" can only occur after the light. Before the light there was "darkness" and not an "evening", those are different words that are not interchangeable. The "evening" of the first day occurred after first light and falls in the middle of the first day. Making the days of creation from morning till morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge