Are Christian seminaries necessary?

[dcyates]

That is a sad commentary about a man or woman of God. Also what a beautiful excuse and club to give people, so they can force someone to believe just the way a leadership wants them to believe. Shut up you stiff necked people we are right no matter what God is tell you. If it is different from what we believe it has to be Satan. Wow! Now isn’t that some club? How dare some young man or woman stand up to that? Now tell me I’m wrong and the churches don’t do just what I have just described?

But giver, you've simply substituted the club of this hypothetical leader with your own. How can anybody argue against your interpretation and understanding of any given text when you claim that you received it from Jesus himself? If your interpretation of a biblical text was given to you from God and somebody else's is different than yours, then what does that say about their interpretation? That's some club of your own that you're swinging around there, giver.

 

[Giver]

But giver, you've simply substituted the club of this hypothetical leader with your own. How can anybody argue against your interpretation and understanding of any given text when you claim that you received it from Jesus himself? If your interpretation of a biblical text was given to you from God and somebody else's is different than yours, then what does that say about their interpretation? That's some club of your own that you're swinging around there, giver.

No one is to accept my interpretation on my word alone. No! Everyone needs to ask Jesus what is right or wrong.

Jesus may be teaching me on a first grade level, but I could be sharing with someone with a grad school understanding on that particular part of the Word. Jesus is the perfect teacher because he knows the student completely. Knows what the student is able to understand and what lessons he or she needs to learn before going to the next level.

 

[Giver]

All the time. In fact, it was something the profs insisted on and frequently incorporated in each class's opening prayers; that the Spirit may protect us, the students, from anything they, the instructors, said that may be wrong. And that we make sure to keep them honest and to be constantly questioning and challenging them.[/font][/color][/b]

That student would be respectually asked to back up whatever it was that their position may be on any given issue.

Well, giver, it may have had nothing to do with what you said but rather the means, manner, and timing by which you said it. If you were in a Catholic church or setting when you stood up and said this, then frankly, you were being terribly rude and I can't say as I blame them for responding to you the way they did. How would you have responded were the tables turned and you were worshiping in your church only to be interrupted by a Mormon, or Jehovah's Witness, or Muslim with them implicitly telling the members of your congregation that your church leader was leading you all astray?
Well making me the culprit sure get the priest of the hook doesn’t it? That is so typical a procedure of doctors, lawyers and ministers.

My wife later, after our meeting, asked the priest if he thought that Jesus would lead us astray, and his answer, with much anger, was YES!




Which only further proves my earlier point--and sorry to put it this bluntly but--you're speaking out of ignorance. Never did I ever feel pressure from a prof that I needed to agree with or adopt any of their stances wholesale. I never for a second felt it necessary to answer any question in accord with the instructor in order to pass their course. The only requirement was that I do my best in showing them that I did the work and to argue well for any position I might have arrived at.

Well you can say what you want, but if you wouldn’t except one of the dogmas of the particular church I doubt you would be allowed to be one of their ministers.


Just this past year I took a course on the book of Revelation. The instructor's own position regarding the date of composition for the book is late in the 1st-century, ca. AD 95. This was a date I held to as well, but during the course of my own research I beame more and more convinced of an earlier date, probably ca. AD 66-68, prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. I wrote a paper arguing for this earlier date and in grading it he added a note saying that though he found my arguments intriguing he was still ultimately unconvinced and then proceeded to give me one of the top marks in the class.

Revelations has so many different interpretations that, as far as I know, no church has made any one-interpretation dogma. So I bet any reasonable idea would be accepted.

 

[sunlover1]

(John 14:26) “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”

​

And interpreting a passage like this in the way you have shows the danger of relying solely on one's own knowledge, rather than at least occasionally availing oneself of the knowledge of others. Look at the context of this verse: the "you" Jesus is speaking to here to is not some generic "you" that can thus be applied to anybody and everybody. The "you" he is speaking to refers to his disciples. The Holy Spirit is going to remind "you (i.e., his disciples) of all I (i.e., Jesus) have said to you." What are those things? When did he say them? Look at the previous verse: "I have said these things to you while I am still with you" (v. 25). In other words, giver, unless you were there in ancient Palestine nearly 2,000 years ago tramping around the countryside as a disciple of Jesus, actually hearing with your own eardrums the actual words of Jesus spoken using his own vocal cords, this verse doesn't apply to you, or me, or anybody living today.
[/left]
[/left]
[/font]

In that case,
then much of the NT wouldn't apply to us would it?

Philippians 1:1 KJV
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,
to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi,

Colossians 1:2 KJV
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:

Romans 1:7
7 To all that be in Rome

It's AWESOME that you are getting an education.
Knowledge is important, you're right!
It even says so in the Bible.
But seminary can indeed be a stumbling
block and puff up 'some' men, right?
In fact, possibly at least some
go for all the wrong reasons,
such as to 'prove' their own rightness.
Or to stand a bit taller and puffier in the
chest
Well, you can say it's not so, but I know
many preachers, and while many of them
are putting God's work first, some
appear to have their own agendas.

Nothing new under the sun there though.
It doesn't take being a preacher to
get puffed up and self serving.

So what's even better is wisdom and
understanding (discernment)

Proverbs 4:7
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:
and with all thy getting get understanding.

Can we get this wisdom and understanding
right from the mouth of God??
Hmm, would have to check
the Bible on that .

I love this when I caught it in regards to the EAR (He that hath one) peirced TO the DOOR and the His sheep HEARING His voice


Our EAR ~peirced to~ THE DOOR (Him)


John 10:7 I AM ~the DOOR~ of ~the sheep~


Duet 15:20 Then thou ~shalt take ~an aul~, and thrust it ~through ~his EAR~ unto ~the DOOR~, and he shall be ~thy servant ~for ever~


Heres Jesus doing just that (away from the multitude)

Mark 7:33 ~he~ took him~aside~from ~the multitude~, and put ~his fingers~ into ~his EARS~


Mark 7:34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, ~Ephphatha~, that is, Be OPENED.


Isaiah 29:18 And ~in that day~ shall the deaf ~HEAR~ ~the words~ of ~the book~, ...


Mark 7:35 And ~straightway~ his EARS ~were~ OPENED


Job 34:16 If ~NOW~ thou hast ~understanding~, HEAR THIS: hearken to ~THE VOICE~ of ~my words~.

John 10:27 ~My sheep~ HEAR ~MY VOICE~, and I know them, and they ~follow ME~


Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I COME (in the volume of the book it is written of ME,) to do thy will, O God.


Luke 24:45 Then OPENED ~HE~ their ~understanding~, that they might understand ~the scriptures~,


The Son of God ~is come~ to give us an understanding to know Him who is true

I love seeing these things hid of Him as it pertains to us hearing Him for ourselves.

Peace

Fireinfolding

AMEN!

Proverbs 2:6
6 For the LORD giveth wisdom:
out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Ephesians 4:20-23
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man,
which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

It's up to us to be very careful who is teaching us. (Written to Timothy anyhow)


1 Corinthians 1:17-19
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

 

[Giver]

In that case,
then much of the NT wouldn't apply to us would it?

Philippians 1:1 KJV
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,
to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi,

Colossians 1:2 KJV
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:

Romans 1:7
7 To all that be in Rome

It's AWESOME that you are getting an education.
Knowledge is important, you're right!
It even says so in the Bible.
But seminary can indeed be a stumbling
block and puff up 'some' men, right?
In fact, possibly at least some
go for all the wrong reasons,
such as to 'prove' their own rightness.
Or to stand a bit taller and puffier in the
chest
Well, you can say it's not so, but I know
many preachers, and while many of them
are putting God's work first, some
appear to have their own agendas.

Nothing new under the sun there though.
It doesn't take being a preacher to
get puffed up and self serving.

So what's even better is wisdom and
understanding (discernment)

Proverbs 4:7
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:
and with all thy getting get understanding.

Can we get this wisdom and understanding
right from the mouth of God??
Hmm, would have to check
the Bible on that .





AMEN!

Proverbs 2:6
6 For the LORD giveth wisdom:
out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Ephesians 4:20-23
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man,
which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

It's up to us to be very careful who is teaching us. (Written to Timothy anyhow)


1 Corinthians 1:17-19
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Hi Sunlover, You have done a nice bit of posting, and have pointed out a tactic that is used by many. When people don’t want to accept a Word in scripture they tend to say: that didn’t apply to us. What is so sad; all anyone needs to do is ask Jesus if it applies to us or not, and so many rely on man to tell them, instead of God.

 

[TamiinKS]

You know, when I first posted on this thread, I really though it was one of those "silly" threads. You know, where the OP wasn't serious?

I am aghast that there are those who believe that education isn't necessary.

Does anyone actually believe that a college degree in any way substitutes for a relationship with Jesus Christ? Does anyone actually believe that you can substitute head knowledge about systems of theology and how to read and interpret a dead language is a valid substitute for knowing God?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Proverbs 4:7
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:
and with all thy getting get understanding.

Can we get this wisdom and understanding
right from the mouth of God??
Hmm, would have to check
the Bible on that .

Wisdom and understanding are with Him, He gives it for sure. ASK and it shall be given


James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and ~it shall be~ given him.



1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in~ the wisdom of men,:o but in the power of God.


1Cr 1:24Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true ...

Peace sis

Fireinfolding

 

[dcyates]

No one is to accept my interpretation on my word alone. No! Everyone needs to ask Jesus what is right or wrong.

No, but giver, you didn't really address my question. You claim your interpretation is given to you by Jesus himself. So, if somebody doesn't agree with your interpretation, what does that say about their interpretation? Say what you will, but in the end, everybody has to agree with you.

Jesus may be teaching me on a first grade level, but I could be sharing with someone with a grad school understanding on that particular part of the Word. Jesus is the perfect teacher because he knows the student completely. Knows what the student is able to understand and what lessons he or she needs to learn before going to the next level.

That's fine, giver, I totally agree with this. But it's not what we're talking about. Your expressed opinion is that it is actually harmful to attend seminary. Since many, if not most, seminarians intend on going into some form of professional ministry--just as is true of any other profession--seminary is both beneficial and in many instances, essential.

 

[sunlover1]

Does anyone actually believe that you can substitute head knowledge about systems of theology and how to read and interpret a dead language is a valid substitute for knowing God?

Amen!
And we know that God gave gifts unto men (teaching etc) for the perfecting of the
saints.
Ephesians 4:8-12
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


Nothing wrong with education, but if I
had to choose between leaving my flock
with someone who knew all about the flocks
in that area for the past 500 years, and
what different shepherds of those
flocks had said and done, OR
one who LOVED my flock and LOVED the
Owner of the flock (and so operated
accordingly) I'd choose the one who's
heart was for that flock, rather than the
more learned one.
NOT that one has to choose, but sometimes
seminary does more harm than good.
Obviously everyone agrees, since there
are so many different denominations.
You might think baptist sem.. are wrong
teaching, or catholic sem are the wrong
teaching or etc..............


John 10:11-13
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

Wisdom and understanding are with Him, He gives it for sure. ASK and it shall be given

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and ~it shall be~ given him.



1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in~ the wisdom of men,:o but in the power of God.

No, but giver, you didn't really address my question. You claim your interpretation is given to you by Jesus himself. So, if somebody doesn't agree with your interpretation, what does that say about their interpretation? Say what you will, but in the end, everybody has to agree with you. [/font][/color][/b]

Or one of the many different brands of
seminary teachings..
(baptist vs Calvinist, vs PR vs Catholic
vs Pentecostal etc.....)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Wisdom and understanding are with Him, He gives it for sure. ASK and it shall be given


James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and ~it shall be~ given him.

1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in~ the wisdom of men,:o but in the power of God.

1Cr 1:24Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true ...

Peace sis

Fireinfolding

There are only 2 places in Revelation we are to have "WISDOM" to understand symbolism, and it is these 2.

Revelation 13:18 Here/wde <5602> [is] the WISDOM/sofia <4678> ! He who is having the understanding/noun <3563> , let him count the number of the wild beast, for the number of a-man it is, and its number [is] six hundred sixty six.

Revelation 17:9 `Here/wde <5602> [is] the mind/nouV <3563> the one-having WISDOM/sofian <4678> ; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,

(wisdom)
occurs 234 times in 222 verses in the KJV

Strong's Number H2451 matches the Hebrew &#1495;&#1499;&#1502;&#1492; (chokmah).
AV &#8212; wisdom 145, wisely 2, skilful man 1, wits 1

Strong's Number G4678 matches the Greek &#963;&#959;&#966;&#8055;&#945; (sophia).
AV &#8212; wisdom 51

 

[Fireinfolding]

There are only 2 places in Revelation we are to have "WISDOM" to understand symbolism, and it is these 2.

Revelation 13:18 Here/wde <5602> [is] the WISDOM/sofia <4678> ! He who is having the understanding/noun <3563> , let him count the number of the wild beast, for the number of a-man it is, and its number [is] six hundred sixty six.

Revelation 17:9 `Here/wde <5602> [is] the mind/nouV <3563> the one-having WISDOM/sofian <4678> ; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,

(wisdom)
occurs 234 times in 222 verses in the KJV

Strong's Number H2451 matches the Hebrew &#1495;&#1499;&#1502;&#1492; (chokmah).
AV — wisdom 145, wisely 2, skilful man 1, wits 1

Strong's Number G4678 matches the Greek &#963;&#959;&#966;&#8055;&#945; (sophia).
AV — wisdom 51

Given Solomon is noted for wisdom (sophia) from God ~under the sun~ and Christ (the sophia) of God. He is the Wisdom (sophia) of God of the ~things above~ (heavenly) they do correspond here. Even the numbers in "weight" (expressed in one picture) are to be "counted" in the other. The two do appear to speak after the same similitude.

1Kings 10:14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,

Christ who is Greater then Solomon who giveth understanding is the Wisdom (Sophia/ feminine) of God.

These things are killer to look into. Just as you show the Woman in connection to the Seven heads which are Seven mountains where she sits.

I find something somewhat interesting concerning the Queen of Sheeba (who come to Solomon to hear his wisdom) her name means OATH or SEVEN. They appear to connect throughout.

Another Woman connected to the same number is found to whom He first appeared to, Mary Magdalene, ~out of whom~ He had cast SEVEN devils.

One cannot help but see these paterns If I cast OUT devils by the FINGER of God surely the KINGDOM of God is come UPON YOU... Would be as the accuser cast down (as it pertains to ones conscience) it appears.

Hey, you can see both wisdoms (from God) present between the two. So also are all the numbers (in regards to man) and in relation to the women in the pictures.

These things are so very interesting to me. I cant help but probe here yanno? I love (like most here) a good mystery as He opens up the scriptures to us (as He does daily) yanno?

I so know that one can know them all (which I certainly do not) and have not love and be nothing.

God help me always to have some sorta balance knowing this in myself.

I so believe a wise man ~endued with wisdom~ has a quality of fruits (born of the Spirit) ~out of which~ he has his conversation (God give me that ).

These things are fun, but I so dont want to miss the boat on the latter for sure

Lamb you always have an interesting dig in your posts

Peace bro, God is GOOD

Fireinfolding

 

[dcyates]

Well, giver, it may have had nothing to do with what you said but rather the means, manner, and timing by which you said it. If you were in a Catholic church or setting when you stood up and said this, then frankly, you were being terribly rude and I can't say as I blame them for responding to you the way they did. How would you have responded were the tables turned and you were worshiping in your church only to be interrupted by a Mormon, or Jehovah's Witness, or Muslim with them implicitly telling the members of your congregation that your church leader was leading you all astray?

Well making me the culprit sure get the priest of the hook doesn’t it?

What hook? How was the priest on the hook for anything? I presume you were within a Catholic setting and in that context the priest expressed to everybody there his belief concerning how "lucky" they were to be part of the Catholic Church--a belief that was very likely shared by everybody there except you and, I suppose (from reading below), your wife. I'm sorry but for you to interrupt this by getting up and challenging the priest in this manner was highly inappropriate. I wasn't making you the culprit. You WERE the culprit.

That is so typical a procedure of doctors, lawyers and ministers.

:o Of which I'm neither.

My wife later, after our meeting, asked the priest if he thought that Jesus would lead us astray, and his answer, with much anger, was YES!

Oh c'mon, Giver, I very much doubt that there's a Catholic priest in the world that seriously believes that "Jesus would lead us astray." That's patently absurd.

Which only further proves my earlier point--and sorry to put it this bluntly but--you're speaking out of ignorance. Never did I ever feel pressure from a prof that I needed to agree with or adopt any of their stances wholesale. I never for a second felt it necessary to answer any question in accord with the instructor in order to pass their course. The only requirement was that I do my best in showing them that I did the work and to argue well for any position I might have arrived at.

Well you can say what you want, but if you wouldn’t except one of the dogmas of the particular church I doubt you would be allowed to be one of their ministers.[/QUOTE]

Well, that pretty much goes without saying, giver. Would you embrace someone as a minister of your church who didn't accept one of your church's core beliefs?

But again, that's not what we're talking about here. We're not discussing denominational differences but rather the legitimacy of earning a theological education in a seminary.

Just this past year I took a course on the book of Revelation. The instructor's own position regarding the date of composition for the book is late in the 1st-century, ca. AD 95. This was a date I held to as well, but during the course of my own research I beame more and more convinced of an earlier date, probably ca. AD 66-68, prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. I wrote a paper arguing for this earlier date and in grading it he added a note saying that though he found my arguments intriguing he was still ultimately unconvinced and then proceeded to give me one of the top marks in the class.

Revelations has so many different interpretations that, as far as I know, no church has made any one-interpretation dogma. So I bet any reasonable idea would be accepted.

Once again, we're not discussing any of the various "interpretations" of Revelation (it's "Revelation" singular, not plural), but the date of its writing. Nevertheless, my point still remains: I have never felt pressure to agree with a seminary prof in order to pass a course or get a good grade.

 

[dcyates]

And interpreting a passage like this in the way you have shows the danger of relying solely on one's own knowledge, rather than at least occasionally availing oneself of the knowledge of others. Look at the context of this verse: the "you" Jesus is speaking to here to is not some generic "you" that can thus be applied to anybody and everybody. The "you" he is speaking to refers to his disciples. The Holy Spirit is going to remind "you (i.e., his disciples) of all I (i.e., Jesus) have said to you." What are those things? When did he say them? Look at the previous verse: "I have said these things to you while I am still with you" (v. 25). In other words, giver, unless you were there in ancient Palestine nearly 2,000 years ago tramping around the countryside as a disciple of Jesus, actually hearing with your own eardrums the actual words of Jesus spoken using his own vocal cords, this verse doesn't apply to you, or me, or anybody living today.

In that case,
then much of the NT wouldn't apply to us would it?

Not at all, sunlover. The important distinction to remember is that the Bible was written FOR us, but the Bible was not written TO us. Therefore, in order to properly and accurately understand its message, we need to interpret it within its actual context. For instance, I'm sure we would both agree that Paul's instructions concerning masters and their slaves is not something all that pertinent to our own contexts.

It's AWESOME that you are getting an education.
Knowledge is important, you're right!
It even says so in the Bible.
But seminary can indeed be a stumbling block and puff up 'some' men, right?

Entirely correct.

In fact, possibly at least some go for all the wrong reasons, such as to 'prove' their own rightness.
Or to stand a bit taller and puffier in the chest

Indoubtedly.

Well, you can say it's not so, but I know
many preachers, and while many of them are putting God's work first, some appear to have their own agendas.

No question about it.

Nothing new under the sun there though.
It doesn't take being a preacher to get puffed up and self serving.

So what's even better is wisdom and understanding (discernment)

Proverbs 4:7
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:
and with all thy getting get understanding.

Can we get this wisdom and understanding right from the mouth of God??
Hmm, would have to check the Bible on that.

AMEN!

Proverbs 2:6
6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Ephesians 4:20-23
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

It's up to us to be very careful who is teaching us. (Written to Timothy anyhow)

1 Corinthians 1:17-19
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

 

[dcyates]

No, but giver, you didn't really address my question. You claim your interpretation is given to you by Jesus himself. So, if somebody doesn't agree with your interpretation, what does that say about their interpretation? Say what you will, but in the end, everybody has to agree with you.

Or one of the many different brands of seminary teachings... (baptist vs Calvinist, vs PR vs Catholic vs Pentecostal etc.....)

Well, there are not too many seminaries that are that exclusive. In fact, every Bible college or seminary I've ever been to had students representing virtually every denomination you can think of. And besides that, all but one were not even closely affiliated with any denomination at all.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The apostles taught a dependence on the Spirit to teach us not a dependence on the wisdom of men.

1John 2:27 But the annointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and YE NEED NOT ~ANY MAN~ TEACH YOU: but as the same annointing ~teacheth you~ of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall ABIDE ~IN HIM~.


Our faith should never rest on the wisdom of men but Christ (who is both the wisdom and power of God)

1Cr 2:5 That your faith ~should not stand~ in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Christ The wisdom and power of God.


Jerm 17:17 ~Blessed~ is the man that trusteth in THE LORD

Surely we are admonished

Jerm 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth IN MAN,:o and maketh flesh his arm, and whose~heart~ departeth from ~the LORD~.


The scriptures are for our instruction and can thoroughly furnish the man of God who hath committed himself to his own instruction that he be perfect.

Isaiah 34:16 SEEK YE ~OUT OF~ THE BOOK OF THE LORD, AND READ: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for MY MOUTH it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Its about studying to shew ourselves approved (not unto men) but unto God.

2Titus 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, ~a workman~ that needeth not to be ashamed, ~rightly dividing ~the word of truth~


These are those taught a fear toward God Himself did so by precepts of men

Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as ~this people~ draw near me with ~their mouth~, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed ~their heart~ far from me, and their fear ~toward me~ is taught by the precept of men:

Heres where leaders can do more harm then good chosing be to led of them.

Isaiah 9:16 For the leaders of ~this people~ cause them to err; and ~they~ that are led of them are destroyed.

Those leading others often ask...

John 9:20... Are we blind also?

I dont think they are aware of their own blindness.

Mat 15:14 they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

If one feels they are blind who's hand you wanna hold? Afterall those who are looking for you to reach out and hold their hand dont know they are blind. What sorta confidence should we place in men knowing these things? :o


Jerm 2:8 ~The priests~ said not, Where is the LORD? and they that ~handle the law~ knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.


We know...


2Titus 3:16 All scripture is given by ~inspiration of God~, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for ~instruction in righteousness~



Just as the scriptures are given of the inspiration of God, the inspiration of God gives understanding as well

He is able

Prov 1:23 ~turn you~ at my reproof: behold, ((( I will pour out my spirit unto you))), I will make known ~my words~ to you.


Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty ~giveth them~ understanding.

1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing ~spiritual things~ with ~spiritual~.


Psalm 84:12 O LORD of hosts, ~blessed~ is the man that trusteth IN THEE.


1Cr 2:16 For ~who hath known~ the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Those who seem somewhat important can sometimes add nothing to another.


Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth ~no man's person~ for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference ~added~ nothing to me


The making of many books there is no end (says His own words). Its best to stick to the book of the Lord and throw a book burning party It does seem to show benefits even in the prevailing of the word of God


Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used ~curious arts~ BROUGHT THEIR BOOKS together, and ~BURNED THEM~ before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Acts 19:20 SO ~~~MIGHTILY GREW~~ the WORD OF GOD and PREVAILED

God giveth wisdom and understanding, all we need to do is ask.

Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?


Luke 11:3 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: ~how much more~ shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.


Luke 11:9 I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you

Psalm 9:10 they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.


Psalm 40:4 Blessed is that ~man~ that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man


Psalm 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.


HEY!! LONG ENOUGH?? Got MORE here

Wooohooo!! Our God is GOOD

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Giver]

[/font][/font][/color][/font][/color][/color][/color]
What hook? How was the priest on the hook for anything? I presume you were within a Catholic setting and in that context the priest expressed to everybody there his belief concerning how "lucky" they were to be part of the Catholic Church--a belief that was very likely shared by everybody there except you and, I suppose (from reading below), your wife. I'm sorry but for you to interrupt this by getting up and challenging the priest in this manner was highly inappropriate. I wasn't making you the culprit. You WERE the culprit.
I don’t think you understand. First up until that moment I never had any disagreement with what that priest or what the Catholic Church taught. While listening to the priest the Holy Spirit told me to get up and tell the group that no matter, who tells them anything about God, be it a priest, bishop, or anyone they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong. Now I believe that was perfectly in order. Paul tells us that: (1 Corinthians 14:26-29) “So, my dear brothers, what conclusion is to be drawn? At all your meetings let everyone be ready with a psalm or a sermon or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or to give an interpretation; but it must always be for the common good, If there are people present with the gift of tongues, let only two or three, at the most, be allowed to use it, and only one at a time, and there must be someone to interpret. If there is no interpreter present, they must keep quiet in church and speak only to themselves and to God. As for prophets, let two or three of them speak, and the others attend to them.”



:o Of which I'm neither.

Oh c'mon, Giver, I very much doubt that there's a Catholic priest in the world that seriously believes that "Jesus would lead us astray." That's patently absurd.
You know that is exactly what I thought, but he didn’t qualify his statement, all he did is call me a protestant. I was totally convinced he was going to physically attack me, he was so angry.

Well, that pretty much goes without saying, giver. Would you embrace someone as a minister of your church who didn't accept one of your church's core beliefs?

Now here is one of the biggest dangers of seminary. I was a Catholic, and believed everything the Church taught. Jesus started teaching me, and not everything he taught agreed with the Churches teachings. Now if I was attending a seminary and this happened much pressure would have been placed on me to go along with the Churches teachings. I have personally talked with ministers that shared with me that they went into the seminary spiritual, but lost their spirituality while in the seminary. The Holy Spirit teaches someone and expects that person to believe. When that person instead believes what man teaches, well the Holy Spirit respects us so much that he will step aside and wait.


But again, that's not what we're talking about here. We're not discussing denominational differences but rather the legitimacy of earning a theological education in a seminary.

Once again, we're not discussing any of the various "interpretations" of Revelation (it's "Revelation" singular, not plural), but the date of its writing. Nevertheless, my point still remains: I have never felt pressure to agree with a seminary prof in order to pass a course or get a good grade.

I wonder if you have ever had the Holy Spirit tell you something that you personally, at the time, disagreed with? Jesus told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason. I believed in self-defense was in the armed forces for five years. When I told my wife what Jesus told me she became angry and ask me what I would do if a man cam into our house and was going to rape her? I told her; I would get in his way but would not hurt him. She angrily left the room. I never tried to convince her that I was right. She has a close relationship with Jesus and I knew she would go to him and he would convince her. It wasn’t long and she came back to me and said: “I wouldn’t want you to.”

Now even if it took a long time for my wife to accept what Jesus told me, my job isn’t to convince anyone to believe as I do. I have to be sure of my relationship with God, and so does everyone else. If everyone believed this way we would all eventually be as the people were in acts. (Acts 4:32)”The whole group of believers was united, heart and soul; no one claimed for his own use anything that he had, as everything they owned was held in common.”

 

[dcyates]

What hook? How was the priest on the hook for anything? I presume you were within a Catholic setting and in that context the priest expressed to everybody there his belief concerning how "lucky" they were to be part of the Catholic Church--a belief that was very likely shared by everybody there except you and, I suppose (from reading below), your wife. I'm sorry but for you to interrupt this by getting up and challenging the priest in this manner was highly inappropriate. I wasn't making you the culprit. You WERE the culprit.

I don’t think you understand. First up until that moment I never had any disagreement with what that priest or what the Catholic Church taught. While listening to the priest the Holy Spirit told me to get up and tell the group that no matter, who tells them anything about God, be it a priest, bishop, or anyone they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong. Now I believe that was perfectly in order. Paul tells us that: (1 Corinthians 14:26-29) “So, my dear brothers, what conclusion is to be drawn? At all your meetings let everyone be ready with a psalm or a sermon or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or to give an interpretation; but it must always be for the common good, If there are people present with the gift of tongues, let only two or three, at the most, be allowed to use it, and only one at a time, and there must be someone to interpret. If there is no interpreter present, they must keep quiet in church and speak only to themselves and to God. As for prophets, let two or three of them speak, and the others attend to them.”

The bulk of the passage you quote applies to the proper exercise of speaking in tongues. More applicable to your situation are the verses that follow which deal with prophecy. I'm not saying that you're guilty of this, but a common misconception is the belief that prophecy is primarily about the prediction of future events. Far from it. The primary purpose of prophecy is to communicate a message from God to God's people. Since you made your pronouncement at the ostensible instigation of the Holy Spirit, you fall more into this latter category.

But even so, something to note first is that the words you quote above, "and only one at a time" (v. 27), is translated from a Greek idiomatic phrase that cannot be easily rendered into English. The Greek idiom itself is kai ana meroV (kai ana meros), which literally translates into, "and in (or, among) parts"--which to us, of course, makes little sense. But the closest we can get to this Greek phrase would be "and each according to their allotted time," which means they weren't to get up and start speaking in tongues whenever 'the spirit' moved them.

This is buttressed by Paul's further instruction specifically concerning prophecy: "and the prophets' spirits are under the prophet's control; for God is not a God of unruliness, but of peace" (vv. 32-33).

In other words, that you were moved by the Holy Spirit to say what you did does not excuse you from standing up and disrupting the meeting by challenging the priest. You should have waited.

Oh c'mon, Giver, I very much doubt that there's a Catholic priest in the world that seriously believes that "Jesus would lead us astray." That's patently absurd.

You know that is exactly what I thought, but he didn’t qualify his statement, all he did is call me a protestant. I was totally convinced he was going to physically attack me, he was so angry.

Please see above.

I wonder if you have ever had the Holy Spirit tell you something that you personally, at the time, disagreed with?

Oh goodness, yes. I used to believe much like you do. I am a totally changed person, now.

Jesus told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason. I believed in self-defense was in the armed forces for five years. When I told my wife what Jesus told me she became angry and ask me what I would do if a man cam into our house and was going to rape her? I told her; I would get in his way but would not hurt him. She angrily left the room. I never tried to convince her that I was right. She has a close relationship with Jesus and I knew she would go to him and he would convince her. It wasn’t long and she came back to me and said: “I wouldn’t want you to.”
Now even if it took a long time for my wife to accept what Jesus told me, my job isn’t to convince anyone to believe as I do. I have to be sure of my relationship with God, and so does everyone else. If everyone believed this way we would all eventually be as the people were in acts. (Acts 4:32)”The whole group of believers was united, heart and soul; no one claimed for his own use anything that he had, as everything they owned was held in common.”

Yes, you've mentioned this earlier and based it on Matt 5.39, usually translated , "Do not resist evil," or "Do not resist one who is evil." Could Jesus possibly have said this, as it is translated, to his disciples? If he did, his statement contradicts other Scriptures such as, "Hate what is evil" (Rom 12.9) and "Resist the devil" (James 4.7).

Paradoxically, it is Hebrew that provides us with a better understanding of this text. When we translate this verse back into Hebrew, we see that Jesus was not creating a new saying, but quoting a well-known OT proverb. This proverb appears, with slight variations, in Psalm 37.1, 8 and Prov 24.19. In modern English we would render this maxim: "Do not compete with evildoers." In other words, do not try to rival or vie with a neighbour who has wronged you.

Jesus is not teaching that we should lie down in the face of evil or submit to evil; rather, he is teaching that we should forego trying to "get back at," or take revenge on a quarrelsome neighbour. As Prov 24.29 says: "Do not say, 'I will do to him as he has done to me. I will pay the man back for what he has done'."

Jesus is pressing an important principle which applies to our relationships with friends and neighbours. It does not apply to situations where we are confronted with a murderer, rapist, or like person of violence; nor when we are facing the enemy on the field of battle. Jesus is not talking about how to deal with violence. He is talking about the fundamentals of brotherly relationships, about how to relate to our neighbour. If, for example, a neighbour dumps a pail of garbage on our lawn, we are not to retaliate by dumping two pails on his lawn. If someone cuts in front of us in traffic, we are not to catch up and try to run them off the road. Wanting to "get even" is, of course, a natural response; however, it is not our responsibility to punish our neighbour for his or her actions. That responsibility is God's. We are to respond to our neighbour in such a way that will disarm and even provide a positive example on how to properly behave in relation to one another. Paul perfectly communicates this principle in Rom 12.17-21: "Repay no one evil for evil, but try to do what everyone regards as good. If possible, and to the extent that it depends on you, live in peace with all people. Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God's anger; for it is written, 'YHWH says, "Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay" (Deut 32.41).' On the contrary, 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals upon his head' (Prov 25.21-22). Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Once we discover how to correctly translate the first part of Matt 5.39, we can then correctly understand the verses which follow. Each verse is an illustration of how we should react to a hostile neighbour. For instance, if a friend insults and embarrasses us by slapping us on the cheek, we are not to slap him back, but instead offer our other cheek. This, by the way, is probably the best-known of all Jesus' sayings. It is also another of the sayings on which pacifism is based. Properly uderstood, however, it has nothing to do with battlefield situations, defending oneself against a murderer, or resisting evil. It is an illustration of how to deal with an angry neighbour, a personal "enemy."

Mistranslation of Matt 5.39 has created a theological contradiction. But when this saying is understood correctly, rather than contradict, it harmonizes beautifully with the rest of Scripture. Our response to evil DOES have to be resistance! It is morally wrong to tolerate evil. Our response to a "hot-headed" neighbour, on the other hand, must be entirely different. His anger will only be temporary if we respond in a biblical manner (cf. also 1 Thess 5.15; 1 Peter 3.9; Rom 12.14).

The responsibility of the godly person is to defuse a potentially divisive situation by "turning away wrath." We are not to seek revenge, which all too often only results in a steady escalation of anger and hostilities.

 

[Giver]

[/color][/b][/font]The bulk of the passage you quote applies to the proper exercise of speaking in tongues. More applicable to your situation are the verses that follow which deal with prophecy. I'm not saying that you're guilty of this, but a common misconception is the belief that prophecy is primarily about the prediction of future events. Far from it. The primary purpose of prophecy is to communicate a message from God to God's people. Since you made your pronouncement at the ostensible instigation of the Holy Spirit, you fall more into this latter category.

But even so, something to note first is that the words you quote above, "and only one at a time" (v. 27), is translated from a Greek idiomatic phrase that cannot be easily rendered into English. The Greek idiom itself is kai ana meroV (kai ana meros), which literally translates into, "and in (or, among) parts"--which to us, of course, makes little sense. But the closest we can get to this Greek phrase would be "and each according to their allotted time," which means they weren't to get up and start speaking in tongues whenever 'the spirit' moved them.

This is buttressed by Paul's further instruction specifically concerning prophecy: "and the prophets' spirits are under the prophet's control; for God is not a God of unruliness, but of peace" (vv. 32-33).

In other words, that you were moved by the Holy Spirit to say what you did does not excuse you from standing up and disrupting the meeting by challenging the priest. You should have waited.


The Priest’s disagreement with me had nothing to do with when I talked, but with what I said.

[/color][/font][/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/color][/color]
Please see above.


Oh goodness, yes. I used to believe much like you do. I am a totally changed person, now.

Yes, you've mentioned this earlier and based it on Matt 5.39, usually translated , "Do not resist evil," or "Do not resist one who is evil." Could Jesus possibly have said this, as it is translated, to his disciples? If he did, his statement contradicts other Scriptures such as, "Hate what is evil" (Rom 12.9) and "Resist the devil" (James 4.7).

Paradoxically, it is Hebrew that provides us with a better understanding of this text. When we translate this verse back into Hebrew, we see that Jesus was not creating a new saying, but quoting a well-known OT proverb. This proverb appears, with slight variations, in Psalm 37.1, 8 and Prov 24.19. In modern English we would render this maxim: "Do not compete with evildoers." In other words, do not try to rival or vie with a neighbour who has wronged you.

Jesus is not teaching that we should lie down in the face of evil or submit to evil; rather, he is teaching that we should forego trying to "get back at," or take revenge on a quarrelsome neighbour. As Prov 24.29 says: "Do not say, 'I will do to him as he has done to me. I will pay the man back for what he has done'."

Jesus is pressing an important principle which applies to our relationships with friends and neighbours. It does not apply to situations where we are confronted with a murderer, rapist, or like person of violence; nor when we are facing the enemy on the field of battle. Jesus is not talking about how to deal with violence. He is talking about the fundamentals of brotherly relationships, about how to relate to our neighbour. If, for example, a neighbour dumps a pail of garbage on our lawn, we are not to retaliate by dumping two pails on his lawn. If someone cuts in front of us in traffic, we are not to catch up and try to run them off the road. Wanting to "get even" is, of course, a natural response; however, it is not our responsibility to punish our neighbour for his or her actions. That responsibility is God's. We are to respond to our neighbour in such a way that will disarm and even provide a positive example on how to properly behave in relation to one another. Paul perfectly communicates this principle in Rom 12.17-21: "Repay no one evil for evil, but try to do what everyone regards as good. If possible, and to the extent that it depends on you, live in peace with all people. Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God's anger; for it is written, 'YHWH says, "Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay" (Deut 32.41).' On the contrary, 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals upon his head' (Prov 25.21-22). Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Once we discover how to correctly translate the first part of Matt 5.39, we can then correctly understand the verses which follow. Each verse is an illustration of how we should react to a hostile neighbour. For instance, if a friend insults and embarrasses us by slapping us on the cheek, we are not to slap him back, but instead offer our other cheek. This, by the way, is probably the best-known of all Jesus' sayings. It is also another of the sayings on which pacifism is based. Properly uderstood, however, it has nothing to do with battlefield situations, defending oneself against a murderer, or resisting evil. It is an illustration of how to deal with an angry neighbour, a personal "enemy."

Mistranslation of Matt 5.39 has created a theological contradiction. But when this saying is understood correctly, rather than contradict, it harmonizes beautifully with the rest of Scripture. Our response to evil DOES have to be resistance! It is morally wrong to tolerate evil. Our response to a "hot-headed" neighbour, on the other hand, must be entirely different. His anger will only be temporary if we respond in a biblical manner (cf. also 1 Thess 5.15; 1 Peter 3.9; Rom 12.14).

The responsibility of the godly person is to defuse a potentially divisive situation by "turning away wrath." We are not to seek revenge, which all too often only results in a steady escalation of anger and hostilities.

My aren’t you the intelligent, educated scholar, your interpretation of the scripture are so much better that all the men who put together the English translations Bibles we use.

This thread isn’t about how and where the Christians went wrong, so if you want to discuss that start a threat.

 

[Giver]

[/color][/b][/font]The bulk of the passage you quote applies to the proper exercise of speaking in tongues. More applicable to your situation are the verses that follow which deal with prophecy. I'm not saying that you're guilty of this, but a common misconception is the belief that prophecy is primarily about the prediction of future events. Far from it. The primary purpose of prophecy is to communicate a message from God to God's people. Since you made your pronouncement at the ostensible instigation of the Holy Spirit, you fall more into this latter category.

But even so, something to note first is that the words you quote above, "and only one at a time" (v. 27), is translated from a Greek idiomatic phrase that cannot be easily rendered into English. The Greek idiom itself is kai ana meroV (kai ana meros), which literally translates into, "and in (or, among) parts"--which to us, of course, makes little sense. But the closest we can get to this Greek phrase would be "and each according to their allotted time," which means they weren't to get up and start speaking in tongues whenever 'the spirit' moved them.

This is buttressed by Paul's further instruction specifically concerning prophecy: "and the prophets' spirits are under the prophet's control; for God is not a God of unruliness, but of peace" (vv. 32-33).

In other words, that you were moved by the Holy Spirit to say what you did does not excuse you from standing up and disrupting the meeting by challenging the priest. You should have waited.
[/color][/font][/font][/color][/font][/color][/font][/color][/color][/color]
Please see above.


Oh goodness, yes. I used to believe much like you do. I am a totally changed person, now.

Yes, you've mentioned this earlier and based it on Matt 5.39, usually translated , "Do not resist evil," or "Do not resist one who is evil." Could Jesus possibly have said this, as it is translated, to his disciples? If he did, his statement contradicts other Scriptures such as, "Hate what is evil" (Rom 12.9) and "Resist the devil" (James 4.7).

Paradoxically, it is Hebrew that provides us with a better understanding of this text. When we translate this verse back into Hebrew, we see that Jesus was not creating a new saying, but quoting a well-known OT proverb. This proverb appears, with slight variations, in Psalm 37.1, 8 and Prov 24.19. In modern English we would render this maxim: "Do not compete with evildoers." In other words, do not try to rival or vie with a neighbour who has wronged you.

Jesus is not teaching that we should lie down in the face of evil or submit to evil; rather, he is teaching that we should forego trying to "get back at," or take revenge on a quarrelsome neighbour. As Prov 24.29 says: "Do not say, 'I will do to him as he has done to me. I will pay the man back for what he has done'."

Jesus is pressing an important principle which applies to our relationships with friends and neighbours. It does not apply to situations where we are confronted with a murderer, rapist, or like person of violence; nor when we are facing the enemy on the field of battle. Jesus is not talking about how to deal with violence. He is talking about the fundamentals of brotherly relationships, about how to relate to our neighbour. If, for example, a neighbour dumps a pail of garbage on our lawn, we are not to retaliate by dumping two pails on his lawn. If someone cuts in front of us in traffic, we are not to catch up and try to run them off the road. Wanting to "get even" is, of course, a natural response; however, it is not our responsibility to punish our neighbour for his or her actions. That responsibility is God's. We are to respond to our neighbour in such a way that will disarm and even provide a positive example on how to properly behave in relation to one another. Paul perfectly communicates this principle in Rom 12.17-21: "Repay no one evil for evil, but try to do what everyone regards as good. If possible, and to the extent that it depends on you, live in peace with all people. Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God's anger; for it is written, 'YHWH says, "Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay" (Deut 32.41).' On the contrary, 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals upon his head' (Prov 25.21-22). Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Once we discover how to correctly translate the first part of Matt 5.39, we can then correctly understand the verses which follow. Each verse is an illustration of how we should react to a hostile neighbour. For instance, if a friend insults and embarrasses us by slapping us on the cheek, we are not to slap him back, but instead offer our other cheek. This, by the way, is probably the best-known of all Jesus' sayings. It is also another of the sayings on which pacifism is based. Properly uderstood, however, it has nothing to do with battlefield situations, defending oneself against a murderer, or resisting evil. It is an illustration of how to deal with an angry neighbour, a personal "enemy."

Mistranslation of Matt 5.39 has created a theological contradiction. But when this saying is understood correctly, rather than contradict, it harmonizes beautifully with the rest of Scripture. Our response to evil DOES have to be resistance! It is morally wrong to tolerate evil. Our response to a "hot-headed" neighbour, on the other hand, must be entirely different. His anger will only be temporary if we respond in a biblical manner (cf. also 1 Thess 5.15; 1 Peter 3.9; Rom 12.14).

The responsibility of the godly person is to defuse a potentially divisive situation by "turning away wrath." We are not to seek revenge, which all too often only results in a steady escalation of anger and hostilities.

On second thought what you wrote is a perfect example of why seminaries are so dangerous. All those Christians before Constantine came along and led so many off, Christians excepted the Word as it was written, but then the Church needed to justify the lie that Constantine convinced so many of, so they twisted the Word of God around to mean what they wanted. Now it would take the discipline of a seminary to be able to keep people from believing what the Holy Spirit had been teaching people all those years before Constantine.

 

[TamiinKS]

Constantine's only real contribution is legalizing the Christian faith and calling the Council of Nicea. He didn't vote on any topic debated there and didn't have any influence on what was produced from it.

My aren&#8217;t you the intelligent, educated scholar, your interpretation of the scripture are so much better that all the men who put together the English translations Bibles we use.

Is this how someone taught by Jesus responds when he's wrong about something?