Are Christian seminaries necessary?

[Giver]

If you've never been to seminary, you simply CANNOT make that accusation.

It's fine if you THINK that, because you're entitled to your OPINION, but to state it as though it were fact is asinine.

You are right that is my opinion, and I believe I qualified my statement, as I doubt anyone goes to a seminary to get to know God. They go, in my opinion, to be accepted as ministers in some church. They, on the most part, need to know what each church teaches, not what Jesus taught. You wouldn’t have so many different ideas on what Jesus taught other wise.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

You are right that is my opinion, and I believe I qualified my statement, as I doubt anyone goes to a seminary to get to know God.
You're doing a dance of semantics here.

They go, in my opinion, to be accepted as ministers in some church.
I was already in full-time ministry when I began my grad-work, so this definitely does NOT apply to everyone.

They, on the most part, need to know what each church teaches, not what Jesus taught.
That is a VERY erroneous assumption - again, made by somebody who is not qualified to make that assumption, because he's never set foot in a seminary.

You wouldn’t have so many different ideas on what Jesus taught other wise.
Yes, you would.
In fact, you would have even more - because you'd have every Tom, Dick & Harry claiming to be the sole purveyor of The Truth. That is what you'd have if everyone went the route YOU chose to go.

Again, it perfectly fine that you chose not to go to seminary. But you really shouldn't bad-mouth those who did.

 

[mooduck1]

I personally think that; not only are seminaries not necessary, but are in most cases dangerous to a person’s spiritual health.

After a person has been brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, by the Christians preachers, teachers, pastors, and have been given the Holy Spirit it is no longer necessary to be taught by man, right?

Did Paul go to a seminary? Did man teach Paul? Doesn’t every Christian have the same Holy Spirit given to them as Paul had given to him?
He was a pharasee, he knew his scriptures backwards and forwards.

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I have Observed that the scariest kind of people in this world are the ones who only know thier "holy book" and only know it from thier own point of view. The purpose of a good seminary is multifaceted.

1. It assures that leaders are TESTED. If a person who wants to be a leader does not understand multple points of view than he will not be able to defend properly, even his own position. Seminary Gives a person a safe environment to have his faith challenged without affecting the faith of his would be sheep.

2. It assures that a pastor knows his Bible well, and understands thuroughly, the historical context of it which will make him able to direct his would be sheep. Just as Paul was very well versed in the History and Scripture from which he quoted frequently.
3. It helps a person to network, and build relationships with other would be leaders in his field so he can have accountability with people he knows and trusts.
Off the top off my head, these are just a few reasons i can think of why the premise of this string is WAY OFF.

 

[Giver]

I have Observed that the scariest kind of people in this world are the ones who only know thier "holy book" and only know it from thier own point of view. The purpose of a good seminary is multifaceted.

1. It assures that leaders are TESTED. If a person who wants to be a leader does not understand multple points of view than he will not be able to defend properly, even his own position. Seminary Gives a person a safe environment to have his faith challenged without affecting the faith of his would be sheep.

2. It assures that a pastor knows his Bible well, and understands thuroughly, the historical context of it which will make him able to direct his would be sheep. Just as Paul was very well versed in the History and Scripture from which he quoted frequently.
3. It helps a person to network, and build relationships with other would be leaders in his field so he can have accountability with people he knows and trusts.
Off the top off my head, these are just a few reasons i can think of why the premise of this string is WAY OFF.

You expressed your opinion and your opinion is one that is held, I believe, by most of the Christian denominations. What I am sharing is my belief that the only truly safe way to come to know God is by having Jesus/Holy Spirit teach us about God, and not man.

 

[dcyates]

I have nothing against education. My contention is that seminaries are not conducive to a spiritual education. Only God can teach one about God.

By the way I do have a college degree. I went to school to learn electronics, not about God.

By the way when I accepted Jesus’ call to his ministry I asked him what seminary to attend he told me: “NO! Don’t read about me I will teach you about me.”

You know he taught me how to live a sinless life, and you just wrote that no seminary does that.

I'm sorry, Giver, but this is the most ridiculous comment you've made so far on this thread. And that's saying something! You don't live a sinless life. No human who has ever lived lived a sinless life--save One.

If you were truly taught by the Spirit of Christ, you wouldn't even entertain the idea that you're living sinlessly.

 

[Giver]

I'm sorry, Giver, but this is the most ridiculous comment you've made so far on this thread. And that's saying something! You don't live a sinless life. No human who has ever lived lived a sinless life--save One.

If you truly taught by the Spirit of Christ, you wouldn't even entertain the idea that you're living sinlessly.

You know what is so sad? You don’t understand that is why Jesus came. He came to free us from the slavery to Satan. Your post shows just how useless all your seminary training has been to you.

 

[mooduck1]

You expressed your opinion and your opinion is one that is held, I believe, by most of the Christian denominations. What I am sharing is my belief that the only truly safe way to come to know God is by having Jesus/Holy Spirit teach us about God, and not man.

I agree that God teaches us about himself. However, you cannot be a Christian in isolation! God gave us a Community specifically so that we would learn about God through one another. You can lear an awful lot about God from other people. I do not believe that someone who has no safety nets or human accountability and never has is fit to lead any other group of humans. That's the scriptural model we have been given my friend.

 

[dcyates]

Because; he gave us his Holy Spirit to teach us about God.

Yes, he did. But do you honestly think that this ministry ends once a believer steps through the doors of a seminary?

You most likely are right, Jesus can use anything to teach, but I doubt anyone goes to a seminary to get to know God.

Okay, I'm not going speak to these rather silly statements of yours any longer. Instead, since you're claiming to be taught exclusively by the Holy Spirit himself, without the use of any outside resources, I might as well take advantage of this and so ask you the meaning of various biblical passages. If the Spirit--and only the Spirit, without any outside help--gives you anything resembling an accurate interpretation of these texts, I'll concede to your side of this issue.

What's the underlying purpose of Matthew's genealogy of Jesus, where he enumerates the 14 generations between Abraham and King David, David and the Babylonian exile, and the exile to Jesus himself (Matt 1.1-17)?

Why does Jesus get baptized? What does he mean when he says that it needs to be done in order "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matt 3.15)?

Why did the Spirit "drive" Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by satan (Matt 4.1)? Why did the satan choose the particular temptations he did? What's the significance behind them?

How are we to understand Jesus' use of the terms "bind" and "loose" in Matthew 16.19 and 18.18?

What does Jesus intend to communicate with his "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" teaching in Matt 22.21//Mark 12.17)?

What does Jesus intend by his statement in Luke 23.31: "For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"

I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[dcyates]

You know what is so sad? You don’t understand that is why Jesus came. He came to free us from the slavery to Satan. Your post shows just how useless all your seminary training has been to you.

Oh really? So you never think an ill thought of anybody? Never look at something owned by anybody else and think to yourself, "Gee, I wish I had that"? Never speak anything false? Never judge anybody else? (Heck, you judge falsely virtually every believer who has ever entered a classroom for a theological education! In point of fact, you're effectively sinning just by claiming to be sinless.)

So what does Paul mean when he says, "Not that I have already obtained or have been made perfect--no, I keep pursuing it in the hope of taking hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me" (Phil 3.12)? Are you greater than the apostle Paul?

What does Paul mean when he teaches: "Brothers, if indeed a man is caught in some sin, you spiritual ones are to restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness. But watch out for yourself lest you also be tempted" (Gal 6.1)? Why would Paul need to warn these whom he specifically identifies as "spiritual ones" to take care lest they also be tempted, if sinning shouldn't be a problem?

I suppose the message of 1 John 1.8-9 doesn't apply to you. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and righteous will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I mean, you have no sins to confess, right?

 

[Giver]

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Yes, he did. But do you honestly think that this ministry ends once a believer steps through the doors of a seminary?

Okay, I'm not going speak to these rather silly statements of yours any longer. Instead, since you're claiming to be taught exclusively by the Holy Spirit himself, without the use of any outside resources, I might as well take advantage of this and so ask you the meaning of various biblical passages. If the Spirit--and only the Spirit, without any outside help--gives you anything resembling an accurate interpretation of these texts, I'll concede to your side of this issue.

What's the underlying purpose of Matthew's genealogy of Jesus, where he enumerates the 14 generations between Abraham and King David, David and the Babylonian exile, and the exile to Jesus himself (Matt 1.1-17)?

Why does Jesus get baptized? What does he mean when he says that it needs to be done in order "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matt 3.15)?

Why did the Spirit "drive" Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by satan (Matt 4.1)? Why did the satan choose the particular temptations he did? What's the significance behind them?

How are we to understand Jesus' use of the terms "bind" and "loose" in Matthew 16.19 and 18.18?

What does Jesus intend to communicate with his "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" teaching in Matt 22.21//Mark 12.17)?

What does Jesus intend by his statement in Luke 23.31: "For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"

I'll leave it at that for now.

First of all I could care less if you believe me or not. Second who are you to think that you can give me a test? Thirdly what difference do any of your questions have in helping anyone live the Word of God?

Who decided what the correct answers to your questions are any way?

If Jesus wanted me to know why he said what he did he would tell me, and I would or will never need to rely on man’s guess, educated or not.

You don’t understand at all, knowing God isn’t about accumulating knowledge developed by man.

Jesus teaches me what he wants me to know and what he wants me to share, but no one is to accept what I say. Everyone is to ask Jesus if what anyone says about God is right or wrong.

I don’t expect you to believe this, but just to let you see just how active Jesus is in our lives, I will share something. The reason I am so sure that Christians are dead to sin, is because Jesus personally sat next to me and had me open the Bible to some of the scriptures that tell us that. He explained those scriptures to me and explained how that living a sinless life is possible.

I could, if I had the talent, write a book about the many personal experiences where Jesus has interacted spiritually and physically in my families’ lives and mine.

Thirty years ago Jesus told me that a time was coming soon when man would suffer more than he has ever suffered. I was to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community would grow. He wanted a place of safety for his people.

Now that is my whole purpose in sharing on the Christian forums.

Jesus personally has told me he is God, the bible is his written Word, that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason, that it is dangerous for both parties to call another man father, and the Holy Spirit has told me that the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus.

There is much, much more that Jesus has taught me and it is all about living his Word.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course seminaries are necessary!

At Chrismation, we are sealed with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Seminaries help one be trained how to use certain gifts.

Many are called, few are chosen. Many go to a seminary, few graduate and are ordained.

I fall into that one ['66-'67].

 

[Giver]

I fall into that one ['66-'67].

Who was and is the best teacher ever? Who gave us his Holy Spirit? What are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit?

Now tell me how man can do a better job than the Holy Spirit/Jesus in using those gifts?

What seminaries do is teach people how to control the gifts so as not to interfere with a given churches teachings.

 

[TamiinKS]

Since I started reading this thread, I've been praying that God will teach me ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek. So far, nada.

Am I just not praying hard enough?

Why can't you see, giver, that seminary is not about knowing God? It's knowing facts like any education. Facts that ordinary pew-sitters don't know. Facts about history. It also teaches skills like public speaking. How to write and deliver a sermon. Are those things that the Holy Spirit taught you?

 

[Giver]

Since I started reading this thread, I've been praying that God will teach me ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek. So far, nada.

Am I just not praying hard enough?

Why can't you see, giver, that seminary is not about knowing God? It's knowing facts like any education.
A person can go to any higher education institution to learn facts; seminaries tend to slant the facts to persuade that their denomination is the right one.

Facts that ordinary pew-sitters don't know. Facts about history. It also teaches skills like public speaking. How to write and deliver a sermon. Are those things that the Holy Spirit taught you?

A person can go to any higher education institution to learn facts; seminaries tend to slant the facts to persuade people that their denomination is the right one.


No the Holy Spirit/Jesus teaches me only what I need to know to do what he has called me to do for him. If God wanted me to learn Greek or whatever language I am sure it would happen.

 

[Silenus]

Of course a person has to be taught about God, by man, until they accept God are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. Then they are to be taught by God.

Too bad this isn't anything to be found in scripture . . . why does the holy spirit give men the gift of teaching if everyone is to simply recieve their instruction from God post conversion? (Eph 4:11) And, once the church and a society is blessed with a exceedingly large group of christians, why would it not be prudent to put their best teachers together to teach complex things to the best students? We see consolidation and delegation of this nature in the scriptures, where those who are better teachers and ministers (the apostles) are let go of the burden of serving once the church became large and appointed people to lead the office of deacon. Teachers recieve their gift from the spirit (this is farily obvious from scripture) and not all scriptual and spiritual knowledge is from the direct aprrehension of the spirit.

Why do the apostles use themselves and their apostolic office as a test against heresy of the spirit is the sifficient determiner of truth?

I really do find this claim akimbo.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

What seminaries do is teach people how to control the gifts so as not to interfere with a given churches teachings.

I can't believe you're still posting nonsense like this.

There are some of us who HAVE been to, and through, seminary. YOU have NOT. Who do you think is in a better position to say what does and does not go on in seminary?

What's obvious here is that you have some weird axe to grind concerning Christian colleges and seminaries. And while I don't know why you're so full of hate toward seminaries, what I do know is that it's your problem, and a commentary on you - not on the seminaries.

 

[Giver]

Too bad this isn't anything to be found in scripture . . . why does the holy spirit give men the gift of teaching if everyone is to simply recieve their instruction from God post conversion? (Eph 4:11) And, once the church and a society is blessed with a exceedingly large group of christians, why would it not be prudent to put their best teachers together to teach complex things to the best students? We see consolidation and delegation of this nature in the scriptures, where those who are better teachers and ministers (the apostles) are let go of the burden of serving once the church became large and appointed people to lead the office of deacon. Teachers recieve their gift from the spirit (this is farily obvious from scripture) and not all scriptual and spiritual knowledge is from the direct aprrehension of the spirit.
There need to be teachers to introduce people to Jesus and give instructions so they can accept Jesus as their savior.

Why do the apostles use themselves and their apostolic office as a test against heresy of the spirit is the sifficient determiner of truth?

I really do find this claim akimbo.

Scripture does tell us:
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ Who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

 

[jsimms615]

I personally think that; not only are seminaries not necessary, but are in most cases dangerous to a person’s spiritual health.

After a person has been brought to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, by the Christians preachers, teachers, pastors, and have been given the Holy Spirit it is no longer necessary to be taught by man, right?

Did Paul go to a seminary? Did man teach Paul? Doesn’t every Christian have the same Holy Spirit given to them as Paul had given to him?

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

(John 16:13) “But when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking as from himself but will say only what he has learnt; and he will tell you of the things to come.”

(1 Corinthians 1:19-21) “As scripture says: I shall destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing all the learning of the learned. Where are the philosophers now? Where are the scribes? Where are any of our thinkers today? Do you see now how God has shown up the foolishness of human wisdom? If it was God’s wisdom that human wisdom should not know God, it was because God wanted to save those who have faith through the foolishness of the message that we preach.”

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ Who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

I don't think seminaries are necessary having been to two of them in my life. But, I don't think we should act as though we cannot learn from others in the church. Commentaries and devotional and other study helps can be helpful if we keep it in mind that they were written by people who have biases and not perfect by any means.
Likewise, it is helpful as a person working in the church to look at what others are doing at conferences and seminars to see what you can learn from them. It doesn't change the message at all, but perhaps someone has found methods of sharing that are fruitful and that God is blessing

 

[Silenus]

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ Who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

Okay, nice verse. I could use some commentary, though, to show how it relates to the discussion. After all, the apostle in the verse is still teaching and imparting wisdom, and this verse simply mentions that you must be spiritual to understand spiritual things. It doesn't say anything about not having teaching or discipleship and not having these in a advanced and organized manner. Also, I see you side my point about the apostles setting themselves up as teachers of truth to the point that Paul tells Christians to ignore the teachings of those who contradict him. Doesn't sound like a spirit tells all things to me. Are you, also, telling me that you are of such a perfect spiritual state that you have no need for human checks and accountability, even thought the apostles did? We still have people whom the spirit directs to be teachers of spiritual things . . . this is obvious from the bible. The seminary is just an organized form of that for a large body of people and for more advanced study. I find your opposition to the university strange.

as for this . . .

don't think seminaries are necessary having been to two of them in my life. But, I don't think we should act as though we cannot learn from others in the church. Commentaries and devotional and other study helps can be helpful if we keep it in mind that they were written by people who have biases and not perfect by any means.
Likewise, it is helpful as a person working in the church to look at what others are doing at conferences and seminars to see what you can learn from them. It doesn't change the message at all, but perhaps someone has found methods of sharing that are fruitful and that God is blessing

I like it. The seminary is just a specialized form of discipleship, if done well. I do think that to stop someone who is gifted from pursuing a ministry because they do not have a seminary degree is also not a good idea. Just as it is an unwise idea to dis seminaries as a waste of time, I also think it is unwise to make it a requirement in the face of an individual who is extremely gifted.

However, If I were rich and in the church with the extremely gifted person, I’d pay for His seminary, because it won't hurt him at all.

 

[Giver]

I don't think seminaries are necessary having been to two of them in my life. But, I don't think we should act as though we cannot learn from others in the church. Commentaries and devotional and other study helps can be helpful if we keep it in mind that they were written by people who have biases and not perfect by any means.
Likewise, it is helpful as a person working in the church to look at what others are doing at conferences and seminars to see what you can learn from them. It doesn't change the message at all, but perhaps someone has found methods of sharing that are fruitful and that God is blessing

I personally do agree, as long as everyone remembers to take what he or she hears to Jesus and asks him if it is right or not. Even if the person sharing is right, it may not be the time for the hearer to receive or be able as yet, to understand. Jesus/Holy Spirit needs to decide that for each and every one of us.