Are Any Objections to Christian Faith Successful?

[Tree of Life]

An objection to the Christian faith is a reason to believe that the Christian worldview is false.

Many will say that they don't believe in Christianity because there is no reason to believe in Christianity. But this is not a positive objection in the sense that I want to explore here. A real objection to Christianity might be something like the problem of evil. The problem of evil seeks to provide a reason to believe that the Christian worldview is false.

Are any objections to Christian faith successful?

 

[sfs]

Are any objections to Christian faith successful?

What do you mean by "successful"?

 

[Tree of Life]

What do you mean by "successful"?

That they successfully undermine Christian faith.

 

[sfs]

That they successfully undermine Christian faith.

Then a lot of such arguments seem to be successful since some people find them persuasive.

 

[Tree of Life]

Then a lot of such arguments seem to be successful since some people find them persuasive.

Yes no doubt these arguments claim to be successful and the people who advance them believe that they are successful.

But the question of this thread is are these arguments really successful?

I'd like to see someone suggest an objection that they believe is successful so that we may put it to the test.

 

[archer75]

Yes no doubt these arguments claim to be successful and the people who advance them believe that they are successful.

But the question of this thread is are these arguments really successful?

I'd like to see someone suggest an objection that they believe is successful so that we may put it to the test.

I'm not quite following.

If someone finds it convincing, then it has been successful, at least somewhat.

Do you mean an argument that you will find convincing? I'm just not sure what you are suggesting.

 

[Tree of Life]

I'm not quite following.

If someone finds it convincing, then it has been successful, at least somewhat.

Do you mean an argument that you will find convincing? I'm just not sure what you are suggesting.

If an objection successfully undermines Christian faith, then no one should believe in Christianity because of the objection. All who continue to believe in Christianity have either (1) never heard the objection, (2) don't rightly understand the objection, or (3) refuse to reckon with the objection.

 

[ananda]

I'd like to see someone suggest an objection that they believe is successful so that we may put it to the test.

Actions are always done to remedy an experienced discontentment caused by a perceived problem. Therefore, a deity who acts cannot be perfect, as action means that that deity experiences discontentment.

 

[archer75]

If an objection successfully undermines Christian faith, then no one should believe in Christianity because of the objection. All who continue to believe in Christianity have either (1) never heard the objection, (2) don't rightly understand the objection, or (3) refuse to reckon with the objection.

But this isn't how it works. Religious faith is not to be built or destroyed on the basis of pure logic.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Are any objections to Christian faith successful?

We can only show you the door. You're the ones who have to walk through it.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

It's a bit like this. You have a friend, and she has a new boyfriend. You can see, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this guy is not a good person, not the right person for her, and doesn't even really love her. But she's madly in love with him. And whatever you do - explaining logically, telling her about his past exes, having her meet his past exes, videoing him trashing her behind her back, etc. - she simply will not stop believing in him.

The metaphor isn't exact, so let's just focus on the main point: it is extremely unlikely that our pointing out the many reasons why God does not exist to you will actually convince you, because (be honest) you weren't really convinced by logical arguments in the first place, were you?

Having said that, it can be useful to explain the arguments against God's existence, as these may plant a seed which may help a person when they are in a more receptive frame of mind.

 

[Tree of Life]

Having said that, it can be useful to explain the arguments against God's existence, as these may plant a seed which may help a person when they are in a more receptive frame of mind.

Are there any that you believe successfully undermine the Christian faith?

 

[Tree of Life]

Actions are always done to remedy an experienced discontentment caused by a perceived problem. Therefore, a deity who acts cannot be perfect, as action means that that deity experiences discontentment.

Let me put this in propositional form if I can:

1. Actions are always done to remedy an experienced discontentment caused by a perceived problem.
2. Anyone who acts experiences discontentment and is not perfect.
3. God acts.
4. Therefore, God is not perfect and is a contradictory idea.

A poster on another thread of mine is currently arguing along similar lines. I imagine my response to you will be similar to his.

To begin a response, I believe that premise (1) is a highly complex assumption. Why should I accept premise (1)? Why isn't it possible for a perfectly satisfied being to act? Why does perfection and satisfaction result in complete inaction?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Are there any that you believe successfully undermine the Christian faith?

I have a great respect for Christian's defense mechanisms. If you are asking, is there anything I can say to convince you that the man you are madly in love with is a cheat and a liar... (to refer back to my analogy earlier) - then no, not really. Anything I say, you'll just tell me he's been misunderstood, or that he was like that before, but not with you, or that I'm just jealous of your love, or that you can't understand why I'm being so mean.

* God is obviously a made-up figure similar to Odin or Baal or Zeus. The Bible clearly shows that he began life as a tribal deity with a jealous love for his people.
* How could God possibly exist, anyway? How can an immaterial being exist in the real world?
* What evidence is there that anyone survives death? And how could a person survive death? What is a soul made of?
* Why did God create hell? How could a being of perfect love possibly create such a horrible torture chamber as described in the Bible and believed by Christians today and throughout history?
* People are really, really good at fooling their senses. God is just a grown-up version of an imaginary friend.

What do you think of those?

 

[Tree of Life]

* God is obviously a made-up figure similar to Odin or Baal or Zeus.

This is more of an opinion than an argument. It may be "obvious" to you, but it's not at all "obvious" to me that this is the case.

The Bible clearly shows that he began life as a tribal deity with a jealous love for his people.

I would seriously challenge that the Bible shows this.

* How could God possibly exist, anyway? How can an immaterial being exist in the real world?

This is more of a question than an argument. Implicit in the question is the assumption that an immaterial being could not exist. That is, of course, begging the question. Your implicit argument would basically be:

1. Immaterial beings cannot exist.
2. God is an immaterial being.
3. Therefore God cannot exist.

But aren't you assuming at the outset what you're setting out to prove?

* What evidence is there that anyone survives death? And how could a person survive death? What is a soul made of?

This is another series of questions and not an argument or objection to Christian faith as is defined in the OP. Good questions though!

* Why did God create hell? How could a being of perfect love possibly create such a horrible torture chamber as described in the Bible and believed by Christians today and throughout history?

Again, more questions.

* People are really, really good at fooling their senses. God is just a grown-up version of an imaginary friend.

What do you think of those?

I think these are all very interesting questions. But I'm not really seeing any objections to the Christian faith as described in the OP. If you did a bit of work you could take one of these questions are formulate it into a proper objection. Then we could put it to the test and see if its successful.

 

[durangodawood]

Actions are always done to remedy an experienced discontentment caused by a perceived problem. Therefore, a deity who acts cannot be perfect, as action means that that deity experiences discontentment.

Do you think its correct to describe actions taken out of love mainly as remedies for personal discontentment?

Like doing something really nice for someone just because you care for them?

 

[Tree of Life]

Do you think its correct to describe actions taken out of love mainly as remedies for personal discontentment?

Like doing something really nice for someone just because you care for them?

It's hard to imagine acting out of something other than need because we are finite creatures who so often are motivated by need. But I am not convinced that all desires and actions necessarily imply needs and imperfections.

 

[durangodawood]

...Again, more questions....

Everyone here can see the arguments implied in these questions.

 

[Tree of Life]

Everyone here can see the arguments implied in these questions.

Would someone be so kind as to formulate one of these implicit arguments?

 

[sfs]

Yes no doubt these arguments claim to be successful and the people who advance them believe that they are successful.

But the question of this thread is are these arguments really successful?

They're successful in the terms you proposed: they have successfully undermined Christian faith of individuals. But it seems you actually intended to ask something different, something like, "are there arguments that logically entail the falsity of Christian doctrine?"