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Featured Are angels the same as demons?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by mathinspiration, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    It is their personal choice to have remained true to God and not fall with Satan.
    So the capacity exists in all angels to do good or evil, and to take on human form. If they took on human bodily form, then they should be indistinguishable from humans, they could eat food and fool any human persons in all capacities.
    I would say they always had this ability, just that the elect holy angels chose not to do those things.

    6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these (angels), having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    There is connection sexually between what those fallen angels did, (and not all fallen angels did that sin) and the sexual immorality of men. The fallen angels went after strange flesh and gave themselves over to sexual immorality, as did the men of sodom and gomorrah.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  2. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. KJV

    This is fulfilled in Jesus crushing the power of sin and death in the cross and resurrection event.
     
  3. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    Thank you. I had forgotten this passage in Jude. This passage definitely points to the actions of the angels being comparable to sexual immorality. My third view falls apart then...

    Thank you for pointing this out, sdowney717. God bless;
    Michael
     
  4. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    My understanding from the bible is that Demons are just fallen angels. They rebelled against God and were kicked out of Heaven with Satan.

    Satan was the leader of this rebellious group.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  5. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They are not supernatural beings but aliens from another planet in our universe.They appear supernatural because of their use of advanced technology.

    Demons, devils, goblins, pagan gods etc all Alien Beings that primitive man in his ignorance has turned them into myths and gods etc.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Yes.

    Demons/devils/ghosts/evil spirits/pagan gods/modern Aliens/fallen-Angels... they are all the same thing

    Same thing

    I am not saying that every person that is from another planet is a demon - I am saying that demons are fallen angels and they originated (were created by God ) on some planet in our universe as sinless angels to start with.
     
  7. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Yep i concur with that. But i don't believe
    all Aliens are evil. I believe there are some good ones who God works through for various purposes.

    The one that mostly pop up today, the Greys or Zeta Reticulans as they should really be called as that's the star system they originate from are evil.

    Using ancient texts you can also pinpoint another Alien race in the Sirus star system, an Amphibious race. Babylonians worshiped them as Gods.
     
  8. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    I'd say fallen angels are fallen dignitaries with ancient insights into God and Heaven. They know what they envy and want to destroy with hate. St Michael also only rebuked Satan and did not mock him, a former dignitary. Jude. Fallen angels are the devisers and empowers and educators of death. It serves them a purpose. They seek to try to force God to lie. Since the resurrection the ideas may have changed to suit the wisdom of Satan.

    I think unclean spirits and demons are not dignitaries, they were created outside Heaven and never became holy, or dignified. Brutes, murders, rapists, the sewer of the universe. They were probably made to reproduce. Their evil is different to Satan's. Like Hitler and Marilyn Manson, Lucifer and an unclean spirit.

    The spirit of death is the spirit or the spirits that cause us to die and hold us in death for three days until our spirits cannot return to the bodies. They are strong and well trained. Only Jesus is stronger than death, and no angel can overcome them.

    I would say the angels of death administrate rather than directly act like the spirits of death. When Jesus died, they all went from the graves to Him at the angels command and some people rose from the dead and went home.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Nor do I. In fact I would argue that except for the devil and his angels... all aliens are sinless... absolutely sinless

    Indeed all the modern ufo-alien stories are a facade brought to us by Satan.

    the Bible says that the gods of the pagans are all demons
     
  10. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    ANGELS:

    Angels are SPIRIT beings, created by God to serve Him, though created higher than Man.
    Angels have the spiritual gift of "free will".
    Some, the good angels, have remained obedient to Him and carry out His will, while others, fallen angels, disobeyed, fell from their holy position, and
    now stand in active opposition to the work and plan of God, following Lucifer / devil / satan....wherever.
    "Good" angels reside in heaven. Clasifications: Cherubim (Genesis 3; 2 Kings 19:15) ....
    Seraphim (Isaiah 6)
    "Bad" angels will reside in the "lake of fire". Matthew 25:41
    Most times "Good" angels have manifested themselves on earth as "glowing men dressed in white".
    Metaphor: They hover around the "throne of God". Art / Music: robes, halos, wings...nice try!

    The Hebrew word for angel is "mal`ach",
    and the Greek word is "angelos".
    Both words mean “messenger” and describe one who executes the purpose and will of the One whom they serve.

    Angelology: The Doctrine of Angels

    I have never MET one and don't want to and don't expect to. BUT there a bunch of them are mentioned in the Bible for you to study.

    1. Who is "the angel of the LORD" ?...a pre-figuration / shadow of Jesus the Christ?

    SEE:
    Genesis 16: 7-11; Genesis 22: 11-15; Exodus 3:2; Numbers 22:22-35; Judges 2:1-4;
    Judges 6:11-22; Judges 13: 3-21; "the angel of God" : 2 Samuel 14: 17-20; 2 Samuel 24:16
    1 Kings 19:7; 2 Kings 19:35; 1 Chronicles 21: 12-30
    Psalm 34:7; Psalm 35:5-6; Isaiah 37:6; Zechariah 1:11-14;
    Matthew 1:20-24; Matthew 2:13-19;

    2. What are "Guardian angels"?

    Psalm 91...Security of the One Who Trusts in the Lord....used by satan to tempt Jesus?...
    Matthew 4:6!
    11 For He will give His angels charge concerning you,
    To guard you in all your ways.
    12 They will bear you up in their hands,

    Matthew 18:1-11
    10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven
    continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

    3. Some angels have NAMES:
    Gabriel:
    Luke 1:19

    Michael:
    Jude 1:9
    But Michael the archangel,
    when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses,
    did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said,
    “The Lord rebuke you!”

    Revelation 12:7
    And there was war in heaven,
    Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.(satan) The dragon and his angels waged war,

    4. And the book of Revelation is absolutely FULL of ANGELS!

    Some do not acknowledge the existence of ANY spirit being. That is SAD-U-SEE!

    Act 23:8
    For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.

    And that is FAIR-U-SEE!

    ====================

    devil/satan/demons and the like.

    The "pecking order" of Spirit Beings in the Bible...
    1. Jesus: Spirit-Man = God
    2. Angels (spirit beings following / rejecting God)
    3. satan / demons (spirit beings rejecting God)
    4. Man: made in the spiritual image of God...
    later: believers are promised "spirit bodies" in heaven

    Hebrews 2: 9 et seq....Jesus Briefly Humbled
    But we do see Him (Jesus) who was made for a little while lower than the angels, (spirit beings)
    namely, Jesus, (God-Man) because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor,
    so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

    Fallen angels are satan / demons (spirit beings rejecting God)

    Isaiah 14: 12-15 (NASB)...Israel’s Taunt of satan
    12 “How you have fallen from heaven, (spirit realm)
    O star of the morning, son of the dawn! (Lucifer)
    You have been cut down to the earth,
    You who have weakened the nations!
    13 “But you said in your heart, (spirit)
    ‘I WILL ascend to heaven;
    I WILL raise my throne above the stars of God,
    And I WILL sit on the mount of assembly
    In the recesses of the north.
    14 ‘I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds;
    I WILL make myself like the Most High.’ (sin of PRIDE!)
    15 “Nevertheless you WILL be thrust down to Sheol,
    To the recesses of the pit. (lowest place of the dead on earth)

    And the fallen spirits are to be eternally separated from the heavenly realms...

    Revelations 20...The Eternal Judgments of Spirit Beings in Spiritual Realms
    "...and the devil (lucifer/satan/dragon) who had deceived them was thrown into the "lake of fire" and sulfur where the beast (anti-christ) and the false prophet (anti-spirit) were, and they (unholy spiritual "trinity") WILL be tormented day and night forever and ever." ...

    Q: The devil You Say?
    A: Hell / ("lake of fire") / Hades... YES!

    A. satan = devil = fallen Lucifer = serpent = dragon ...and his mission / purpose is clearly described in the Bible.

    He is:

    1. creature...(Ezek 28:14)
    2. spirit being...(Eph. 6:11-12)
    3. highest angelic order ...(Ezek 28:12-14)

    His Personality / Character:

    1. murderer...(John 8:44)
    2. liar...(John 8:44)
    3. confirmed sinner...( 1 John 3:8 )
    4. accuser...(Rev 12:10)
    5. adversary...(1 Pet 5:8)
    AND...“ruler of demons” (Matt. 9:34; ...“the ruler of this world” (Jn. 12:31; 14:30; 16:11),
    Mk. 3:22), “the prince of the power of air” (Eph. 2:2),
    “the tempter” (Matt. 4:3; 1 Thess. 3:5).

    The remainder of the unholy 3:

    B. beast = anti-christ = "man of lawlessness"
    c. false prophet = anti-spirit

    1 John 3:8 (all NASB)
    ... for the devil has sinned from the beginning (Eden).
    The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

    1 John 4:4
    You are from God, little children, and have overcome them;(devil/followers)
    because greater is He who is in you (God the Holy Spirit) than he who is in the world (kosmos).(satan)

    Revelation 12:9
    And the great dragon was thrown down,
    the serpent of old who is called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world;
    he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels (demons) were thrown down with him.

    Revelation 20:2
    And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and satan,
    and bound him for a thousand years;

    The very names and descriptions used to describe satan in the New Testament reveal his evil character.

    satan is called “Abaddon” (Rev. 9:11) or “Appollyon” (Rev. 9:11) meaning “the destroyer.”

    He is the “devil” (Matt. 4:1, 5; 25:41; Jn. 6:70; 13:2; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; 1 Tim. 3:6, 7),

    “the accuser of the brethren” (12:10; Ps. 109:6), and our “adversary” (1 Peter 5:8).

    He is called “Beelzebul” (Matt. 12:24; Mk. 3:22), and “Belial” (2 Cor. 6:15).

    He is “the deceiver of the whole world” (Rev. 2:9),

    “the great dragon” (Rev. 12:9), ...“the ancient serpent” (Rev. 12:9)

    “and an enemy” (Matt. 13:28-29).

    He is the “evil one” (13:19, 39; Jn. 17:5; 1 Jn. 2:13-14),

    “the father of lies” and “liar” (Jn. 8:44),

    the “god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4),

    Genesis 3:
    14 The Lord God said to the serpent,

    “Because you have done this,
    Cursed are you more than all cattle,
    And more than every beast of the field;
    On your belly you will go,
    And dust you will eat
    All the days of your life;
    15 And I will put enmity
    Between you and the woman,
    And between your seed and her seed;
    He shall bruise you on the head,
    And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

    “murderer” (Jn. 8:44),

    “ruler of demons” (Matt. 9:34; ...“the ruler of this world” (Jn. 12:31; 14:30; 16:11),

    Mk. 3:22), “the prince of the power of air” (Eph. 2:2),

    “the tempter” (Matt. 4:3; 1 Thess. 3:5).
     
  11. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

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    I will argue angels are above man.

    Do we judge God or does God judge us?
    Does the higher judge the lower?
    1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!​

    Does the lower serve the higher?
    Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?​

    Angels are spirits like God is, but we, even while in flesh, are in the image of God.
    Genesis 1: So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.​

    Jesus redeemed people, not angels.
    Hebrews 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.​

    Jesus called the Father Abba, and so can we.
    Mark 14:36 Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

    Romans 8:15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, Abba, Father.”​

    Lastly, you have to acknowledge we will be glorified.
    Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.​

    While the angels in heaven may currently be in a higher place and in more glory. God has still holds us above the angels.
     
  12. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    Judging from the rest of your post, I think you meant that angels are not above man...



    In this life, we are lower than the angels, for even Jesus, during His earthly life, was "made for a little while lower than the angels" (Hebrews 2:7). In the new heavens and new earth, however, we will rule and reign with Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:10).



    Actually, yes, in God's economy, at least for now, the higher serves the lower; for even Christ came to serve, not to be served (Matthew 10:25-28). We all serve the LORD, though. Yet even He graciously gives us all things, and provides a way to redemption.



    True, but we are corrupted by the taint of sin, thus marring that image, and therefore, for the time being, we are lower than the angels.



    No problem with any of that, it's all God's truth.

    For the time being, we are lower than the angels in heaven in God's eyes because of sin.

    -----------------EDIT 1020-----------------------

    Come to think of it, Jesus was without sin, and yet Hebrews 2:7 tells us He was lower than the angels during His earthly life... so it is more than just sin that makes us temporarily lower than the angels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  13. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that. Satan screwed up the whole of Gods creation, therefore Aliens have sin.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Everyone has free will -- particularly if they are sinless beings. Only 1/3 of the angels fell - not all of them.

    The rest of God's creation is sinless - only Satan and his follower-angels and mankind have fallen into sin.

    The "Creation" that is spoken of deals with this earth - not with Gabriel or unfallen angels or any other beings in the entire universe
     
  15. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

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    I meant that I will argue [against] your post that I had just quoted where you put angels above man in "pecking order".
    I guess this is where we argue what your "pecking order" means. I suggest it is not referring to the same concept as scripture when it says Jesus was made lower than angels. Read Hebrew 2:9 for more clarity in what scripture is addressing with the made lower statement. It says Jesus was made lower for a little while but is now crowned with glory and honor.

    So the made lower is related to glory, not position or "pecking order". Do you think that God the Father changed his love, or position that he held for his Son because he went to a lower state of glory when he took on flesh?
    The scripture you quote is instruction for people on earth. The conjecture that you assume is that a rule that Jesus gave us and taught by example should also apply to those in heaven. Please note that Jesus serving us was temporary. In heaven the rules are different than on earth.
    I guess you refute your argument. What the Hebrews 2 text is addressing being made lower is not about sin. It is about glory. Now the glory in one can change but I don't think God loves us more when we get to heaven.

    Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.​

    This text makes it clear that God knows all. Further for this argument, predestined, called, justified and glorified are all past tense. This means God does not change his view or position of us based on our path towards righteousness and eventual glorification in heaven.

    So I say if you think we will be above angels in heaven, then we should be above them even in our "growing/learning" state. I say God's special regard for us is based on what God does for us and gives us because he knows what we will do and the choices we will make.
     
  16. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    Hi Anticipate. I don't disagree completely, I think I just misunderstood your post earlier. We agree that we ARE lower than the angels for the time being, why/in what way is something we are not clearly told, and not worth arguing over.

    God bless!
    Michael
     
  17. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    The universe is very old and Jesus is the creator of the worlds, (Hebrews 1:2). Others too long ago, must have been tempted by Satan and some would have failed and there worlds became hellish. I'd say they are the sons of God, who were able to travel down and rape women in Genesis 6.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    True but none fell except Lucifer and his follower angels.. they had war in heaven and were banished ... at that point no other world wanted to "volunteer" to join the losers and forfeit eternal life. Pretty much a dead which is why Satan was so focused on coming to Earth...newest kids on the block
     
  19. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    People who know their stuff usually agree that demons are the spirits of deceased Nephilim.
    This conclusion is usually based on Biblical and related writings, like 1 Enoch.
    However, in the same 'realm' (other dimensions, the occult) there are fallen angels also.
    I'm not sure how (if at all) you can tell them apart in real life (that is, in the relatively rare cases there is communication between them and us).
    The pagan gods of old are not deceased Nephilim spirits, but fallen angels or "little g gods" (read Psalms 82).

    Look for dr. Micheal Heiser videos on youtube for more in depth (the unseen realm, the divine council, reversing hermon)
     
  20. Abraxos

    Abraxos ...

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    Azazel being the scapegoat radically changed my position on how I previously understood the book of Revelation. I missed it years ago because the KJV translation did not reveal the name of Azazel in Leviticus 16. Though it was a single word change, it was a very significant alteration because now it showed that Satan was not the scapegoat as previously thought, but Azazel was the scapegoat. It would have to follow according to the prophetic significance of Yom Kippur, that Azazel would have to be the "man of sin" depicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. "Man of sin" is also translated to be the "man of destruction" which would seem to be in correlation to the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer). (Revelation 9:11)

    The Book of Enoch details Azazel as the angel that taught men to make weapons for warfare - hence the destroyer, and the angel God ascribed all sin, an echo to referring to the scapegoat. (Leviticus 16:21-22)

    Who Azazel is in the Bible:

    1. Azazel is the Goat in the wilderness - Baphomet? (Leviticus 16:8,10,26)
    2. Azazel is the Angel of the Abyss (Revelation 9:11, Revelation 11:7)
    3. Azazel is the Beast/the Antichrist (Revelation 13:3-8, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 17:8.)
    4. Azazel is the Man of Sin (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
     
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