• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Are angels the same as demons?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by mathinspiration, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Member

    356
    +64
    United States
    Methodist
    Single
    Weren't demons once angels?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Left

    Left Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,095
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Even if they are, the difference is that demons are evil and rebellious, while when we say "angel" with no "fallen" before it, we are talking about heavenly beings of God.
     
  3. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

    +1,052
    United States
    Christian
    Private

    This always confused me before I knew about The Book of Enoch, because The Bible (66 Book Protestant Version) never really explains their origin.

    Demons/Evil Spirits are the Disembodied Spirits of the Offspring between Fallen Angels and Human Wives who were All Destroyed in Noah's Flood.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. Abraxos

    Abraxos Love fearlessly

    +516
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Private
    Yeah, I was pretty much in the same boat until I read the Book of Enoch on the origin of evil spirits.

    They're not of God's creation but a corruption of it; and God punishes the angels in everlasting chains (Jude 1:6) and the offspring to remain as wandering spirits on the earth until Judgement day. (Matthew 8:29) Never be able to satisfy their hunger and thirst, and experience the pleasures they once had while in the flesh, and as a result have become very jealous and nasty towards God's creation, especially man.
     
  5. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    +3,392
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    I can't remember the Bible saying that.
     
  6. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    +557
    Christian
    Married
    This is why you should not believe everything you read, unless it is scripture. I take it you believe there are fallen angels but they are different than demons. If you wish to entertain the fanciful, that fallen angels procreated with women to create the Nephilim, than understand that such a union would not make a new soul/spirit. It would be a soulless human. Once they would have died, there would be no "disembodied spirit"/haunting spirit that you think roams the earth looking for a new flesh to possess. Spirits, angels can not reproduce spiritually. God made man special in all creation, including being more special than angels. While animals can reproduce and form new flesh, we can reproduce and create new souls. This is our GREATEST ability. This is being made in the image of God. Angels, no can do.
     
  7. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    +557
    Christian
    Married
    Revelation 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

    7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

    Satan has one third of the angels that were created. God has two thirds. That means there are twice as many good angels as bad angels. Amazing how much havoc he still brings.
     
  8. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    +3,392
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    Are you saying that the dragon's angels were demons?
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,849
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Yes.

    Demons/devils/ghosts/evil spirits/pagan gods/modern Aliens/fallen-Angels... they are all the same thing
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,849
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    fallen angels are demons. In Rev 12 the dragon (Lucifer/Satan) causes 1/3 of the stars (good angels) to fall and become demon like himself.
     
  11. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    +3,392
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    I can believe the dragon is Satan, or representative thereof. This is the first I've heard of fallen angels or Satan being demons.
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

    +3,769
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    The bible actually doesn't say that. It's from misunderstanding something in Rev 12 which doesn't say the stars are his angels. Clearly Satan's angels WITH SATAN in the end of Rev 12 so the stars Satan casts down in the first part of Rev 12 aren't his rebel angels.

    Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
    Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
    Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
    Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
    Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
    Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    So, did Satan cast his angels to the Earth from heaven in Rev 12:4 or did God do it in Rev 12:9?
     
  13. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

    +955
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The book of Enoch is quoted in scripture, in Jude. The writer of Jude quotes a prophecy of Enoch, as prophecy, from the book of Enoch.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,849
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Satan draws 1/3 of the angels (stars) with him.

    And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven

    Satan gets himself and the angels that he drew - cast out of heaven.

    God casts them all out of heaven
     
  15. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    +557
    Christian
    Married
    If you read the NT most of the time the text uses the word demons, but sometimes it uses fallen angels. Understand that they were all created by God as angels so in one sense they are still angels. I like the use of demons because it reduces confusion with God's angels.

    Even the the Pharisees knew that Satan was a prince. Understand that a prince has subjects. Satan is a spirit and has spirits working with him on his side.

    Matthew 9:34 But the Pharisees said, “It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons.”​

    Angels are ministering spirits that serve God and man.

    Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?​

    Satan is an angel.

    2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.​

    Demons are impure spirits that serve Satan, his fallen angels.

    1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

    Revelation 16:13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.​

    Revelation 18:2 With a mighty voice he shouted: “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’ She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    Scripture usually uses angel to refer to God's angels, but sometimes fallen angel is stated as opposed to the elect angels. The fact that there are two classes of angels, God's and Satan's is clear.

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

    Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.​

    Now understand that there is a spiritual battle going on.

    Ephesians 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.​

    This verse should make it very clear that angels and demons are the same type.

    Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,​
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

    +3,769
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    That doesn't address the problem I show in my last post plus this is wrong:

    "Satan draws 1/3 of the angels (stars) with him."

    No not with him. You only quoted part of the verse and not the part that shows you are wrong:

    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


    Whatever/whoever these stars are, Satan doesn't bring them to him or with him but casts them to the Earth away from him and his angels. Rev 12:9 proves Satan's angels are in heaven with satan.

    Rev 12:4 matches this IMO:

    Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

    So these stars are enemies not loyal rebels of satan. The loyal ones remain in heaven with Satan to fight the war they lose and THEN they are cast out of heaven and to the Earth.
     
  17. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    +557
    Christian
    Married
    If one is going to read every verse of Revelation as representing sequential in time, they will not get a true understanding of the text.

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

    Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.​

    Scripture says God has already cast Satan's angels out of hell when they sinned. Scripture also says they did not keep their position of authority/heaven. These two verses say exactly what your Revelation 12:4 and Revelation 12:9 say. This is not uncommon for scripture to retell the same idea using different words. This is for the helpful purpose of good exegesis.

    Also note who the morning star is and how often scripture calls angels as stars.
     
  18. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    +3,392
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    In my Bible (Revised Standard Version), the word "demon" is only used twice in the Old Testament.
     
  19. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    +557
    Christian
    Married
    Who is the prince of this world?

    John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

    John 14:30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,

    John 16:11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.​

    Jesus said his kingdom was not on earth.
    John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”​

    Satan offered to Jesus the kingdoms of earth.
    Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”​
     
  20. AnticipateHisComing

    AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    +557
    Christian
    Married
    Not according to biblegateway.
     
Loading...