Arab World's Response to Beheading!

[Existential1]

when people hear with their own ears the guns and cries of pain, and smell blood and see their loved ones mutilated it provokes a desire for revenge...

weapons surrender ... snip.........can you picture radical islamic groups doing the same?

Yes, things can get better.

I watched a video tonight of unified Vietnam: a nation upon which untold misery was visited; a culture that was mobilised to resist and destroy an enemy.
The depths and breadths of depravity, the demonic, hate, violence; all occurred in this country, and over extended time.

Yet what is most shocking, most surprising to American tourists and ex-patriates: that the Vietnamese people have moved on, have crucially forgotten much and left it in a past; and that what of forgiving was their part, they have done. They have moved on to a future, which while being hard and dissapointing for many, is embraced as the proper horizon in which to invest themselves. This people concern themselves with a present and future in which they stand or fall: and all that once seemed eternal, the violence and the hate, is logged into some indeterminate memory, where already it has passed through several half-life cycles of degrading.

The people of Islam are simply people, like you and I: no better, no worse, not really essentially different; and certainly no less human.
They need a better tommorrow, many of them, that is all.

 

[SolomonVII]

Oh, yes. And Christianity condones the stoning to death of disobedient children, the ritual poisoning of wives whom the husband suspects of being unfaithful, the banishment of lepers, and the death of people who withhold part of their tithes (assuming that we take the Bible literally, at face value -- and don't bother to read it in the cultural, political, social, linguistic, and religious context of the period in which it was written).

Fortunately, MOST Christians don't do these things, even though they are condoned within Scripture. Just as most Muslims don't go around removing people's limbs as punishment for crimes.

On the contrary, it is part of the sharia law of many Moslem countries in existence today. Amputation of the hands of thieves and the proposed stoning of women in Nigeria for adultery (aka their involuntary rape here in the West), is the cultural, political, social,linguistic, and religious context of sharia as practiced in the world TODAY! The context is NOW!

 

[SolomonVII]

KKK - beyond the pale, though the governments of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Iran along with others practicing sharia law do officially lob off parts, including heads!

Actually, comparison between the KKK and the fundamentalist Islamic governments listed above is an apt comparison.

 

[BarbB]

...
Yet what is most shocking, most surprising to American tourists and ex-patriates: that the Vietnamese people have moved on, have crucially forgotten much and left it in a past; and that what of forgiving was their part, they have done. They have moved on to a future, which while being hard and dissapointing for many, is embraced as the proper horizon in which to invest themselves. This people concern themselves with a present and future in which they stand or fall: and all that once seemed eternal, the violence and the hate, is logged into some indeterminate memory, where already it has passed through several half-life cycles of degrading..

I have appreciated your level-headedness today, Existential1, when I feel so emotional today.

I must disagree about Vietnam. The country is still a horror for its Christians who are still imprisoned and tortured for their faith.


.

They need a better tommorrow, many of them, that is all.

I totally agree with this statement!

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Oh, yes. And Christianity condones the stoning to death of disobedient children, the ritual poisoning of wives whom the husband suspects of being unfaithful, the banishment of lepers, and the death of people who withhold part of their tithes (assuming that we take the Bible literally, at face value -- and don't bother to read it in the cultural, political, social, linguistic, and religious context of the period in which it was written).

Fortunately, MOST Christians don't do these things, even though they are condoned within Scripture. Just as most Muslims don't go around removing people's limbs as punishment for crimes.

Uber,

These were parts of God's perfect law which he gave to Moses on the mount. As a Christian, I cannot imagine questioning God's law. As you must be aware, the NT commands Christians to obey the law of the land. Therefore, you aren't going to find many rational Christians these days that suggest these punishments.

 

[renegade pariah]

Uber,

These were parts of God's perfect law which he gave to Moses on the mount. As a Christian, I cannot imagine questioning God's law. As you must be aware, the NT commands Christians to obey the law of the land. Therefore, you aren't going to find many rational Christians these days that suggest these punishments.

I certainly can question weither Paul was reflecting God's law...As a Christian living in Nazi Germany that would mean that I inform on my parents who criticise Hitler, and turn in enemies of the state, so that both will be processed into death camps. It would require me to support the invasion of peaceful countries, and breaking treatys with the rest of the world, just because a madman is in power. The law of the land is often legislated injustice, and there is no way this Christian is going to overide my conscience and common sense to follow the questionable contention of Paul. Here is a fucrum for tyranny that our founding fathers ignored. If those traitors had not rebelled against the law of the land, history would have taken a different course. Blind loyalty is a curse.

 

[feral]

am so upset over this event. This is the face of Islam. Removal of hands, feet, ears, and heads.

Incorrect. This is the face of extremism, mental sickness and ignorance all rolled up into one. Don't be like that, don't be ignorant or hateful. Real Islam has nothing to do with this type of behavior. There are many who are shocked and sickened that their precious religion, which inspires them to peace, has been twisted and warped in this fashion - much as you are no doubt sickened that Christianity has been twisted to produce witch hunts and Inquisitions. What happened was disgusting and sad, but it is not an excuse for ignorance or bigotry.

 

[Existential1]

The country is still a horror for its Christians who are still imprisoned and tortured for their faith.

I was not aware of this: but generally accept that communist regimes are no better than our own when it comes to tolerance, the oppression of the Falun Gong in China would seem another case; they all, of these instances of collective intolerance, have to be robustly challenged.
I see Jesus as the great tolerator, in his radical understanding that man must freely choose God. I think this makes Jesus the most radical political force the world has ever seen: love your neighbour as your self; no reservation, no qualification, no pragmatism in other agenda.
Jesus also seems to be the great and absolute respector of law: the Judaic law, the civic law of his society; transcending it only in fulfilling it, in rediscovering its God groundedness, and as this redemptive love.

 

[dawnmo]

This is the face of Islam.

Wrong. This is the face of extremely radical Islamist Muslims.

Where is the outrage from the Muslim community? Oh, it is there. I have a friend who is an American Muslim and she is deeply grieved by this. I am sure there are many Muslims who feel the same way.

Here is something interesting, though. Okay, I just read a post somewhere around in the Society forum (maybe news, maybe politics, don't remember) about how some conservatives were so mad because all the news shows is the bad stuff (Iraqi prisoner abuse) and never shows the "good stuff" (soldiers posing with Iraqi children, schools being built, etc). Yet now that the bad reactions (glee in the fact of this barbaric act) are being shown and the "good" reactions (rightful moral outrage at this atrocity) are not being shown on the news, the conservative-leaning ones tend to say, "See, the news is right, these people are barbarians!" Where is the conservative outrage that the news is only showing the sensational reactions to the beheading?

Something to ponder

 

[jameseb]

On the contrary, it is part of the sharia law of many Moslem countries in existence today. Amputation of the hands of thieves and the proposed stoning of women in Nigeria for adultery (aka their involuntary rape here in the West), is the cultural, political, social,linguistic, and religious context of sharia as practiced in the world TODAY! The context is NOW!

Exactly. I don't understand why the number of non-Muslims here are acting in a Muslim apologetic role. I think its evident even from the Qu'ran that Islam is fudamentalism to the extreme. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that those that are considered 'moderate Islamists' are 'water-downed' versions of what Islam is supposed to be.

 

[SolomonVII]

I certainly can question weither Paul was reflecting God's law...As a Christian living in Nazi Germany that would mean that I inform on my parents who criticise Hitler, and turn in enemies of the state, so that both will be processed into death camps. It would require me to support the invasion of peaceful countries, and breaking treatys with the rest of the world, just because a madman is in power. The law of the land is often legislated injustice, and there is no way this Christian is going to overide my conscience and common sense to follow the questionable contention of Paul. Here is a fucrum for tyranny that our founding fathers ignored. If those traitors had not rebelled against the law of the land, history would have taken a different course. Blind loyalty is a curse.

Paul had no blind loyalty to Rome. To blindly obey Rome would have meant he worship Ceasar as god. If I am not mistaken, his decisions led to his imprisonment on many occasion and even his eventual beheading.(Just trying to stay on topic here. )
One's responsibility to be a good citizen does not negate the greater responsibility of serving the Lord, especially on behalf of those with no power. Paul's biography is a prime example of this, in spite of the recent bad press he seems to be getting.

 

[LordsRanger]

I have got to say, I watched the video and was quite disgusted. As a justifiable hawk and a moderate conservative, I support the global war on terror with all my heart, and the rapid extirpation of those that wish to kill us, our families, and our way of life. Militancy is only one of the infinite facets of evil.

And furthermore, since humanity and civilization have evolved virtually eons, I support a hard, thick radical line of demarcation between what is just and what is not in terms of punishment, cruelty, and social behavior on a universal scale.

 

[renegade pariah]

Solomon, I have no problem with Paul, but I am suggesting that the quote about respecting the law of the land, is so often misused as to assume that human authority is valid in and of itself. For me God's Will when defined by a man must be a universal truth, and not a tool wielded to create conformity to the world. The history of mankind shows how man's laws persecute people as often as they protect them. There was a time in Europe when Christians were executed for reading the Bible, because law only allowed nobility and clergy to do so. The inquisitions were legal, and so was the Holocaust...The only laws I believe in are the ones that coincide with reason, conscience. "Be ye not conformed to the world", seems to overide what Paul stated on that issue.

 

[JPPT1974]

RIP NICHOLAS BERG 1977 - 2004 WHAT IS EARTH'S LOST BECOMES HEAVEN'S GAIN

 

[gybefan]

Exactly. I don't understand why the number of non-Muslims here are acting in a Muslim apologetic role.

Why not? It's not as if we're engaged in a religious or cultural war against Islam, or anything like that. I consider moderate Muslims my brothers and sisters, and I defend them in the service of truth.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that those that are considered 'moderate Islamists' are 'water-downed' versions of what Islam is supposed to be.

Maybe a Muslim opinion of "what Islam is supposed to be" would be more accurate than the opinions of Christians on either side. We're far from any consensus on that, of course, but considering that there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world - the vast majority of whom are peaceful - I'd go with the majority on that.

 

[jameseb]

Why not? It's not as if we're engaged in a religious or cultural war against Islam, or anything like that. I consider moderate Muslims my brothers and sisters, and I defend them in the service of truth.

Then you and I disagree on what is considered "truth." Also, where's the cultural and religious war against Islam here? The Islamic apologetics are in the majority here so I fail to see what you claim to see here.

Maybe a Muslim opinion of "what Islam is supposed to be" would be more accurate than the opinions of Christians on either side. We're far from any consensus on that, of course, but considering that there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world - the vast majority of whom are peaceful - I'd go with the majority on that.

No, I think Muhammad's examples of torturing, mutilating and murdering his so-called enemies reflects on Islam as a whole. Its such incidents that inspire these terrorists.

 

[rahma]

*note, I'm done with finals and I have a few days until I graduate on Saturday, so I'm here for awhile*

No, I think Muhammad's examples of torturing, mutilating and murdering his so-called enemies reflects on Islam as a whole. Its such incidents that inspire these terrorists.

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) forbade torture

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) forbade mutilating of dead bodies or of captives

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) did however conduct war within rules given by God.

 

[jameseb]

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) forbade torture

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) forbade mutilating of dead bodies or of captives

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) did however conduct war within rules given by God.

Then he was hypocritical. What about those he made drink milk with camel urine, and when that did not kill them he had their arms and legs cut off and left them to die in the desert?

The "rules of Allah" in regards to warfare doesn't apply to non-Muslims. Remember, Muhammad said it was "good" to lie to your enemies....

 

[rahma]

Then he was hypocritical. What about those he made drink milk with camel urine, and when that did not kill them he had their arms and legs cut off and left them to die in the desert?

The "rules of Allah" in regards to warfare doesn't apply to non-Muslims. Remember, Muhammad said it was "good" to lie to your enemies....

James what are you talking about? Where are you getting your propoganda from?

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) and Allah (swt) allowed lying when it was for making PEACE with the enemy, not to defeat them.

And rules of warfare apply to those muslims fight against, which would include non muslims.

 

[jameseb]

James what are you talking about? Where are you getting your propoganda from?

From Islamonline.net. ....and the hadiths of Al-Bukhari.

Still think this is "my propoganda?"

The Prophet Muhammad (saws) and Allah (swt) allowed lying when it was for making PEACE with the enemy, not to defeat them.

He allowed lying in three cases, one of which was to appease one's wife (bet that was popular among the women), lying to make peace, and lying to your enemy.

And rules of warfare apply to those muslims fight against, which would include non muslims.

Incorrecto. Take it up with the Islamic scholars who do endorse a 'no rules' war on Christians.