Apocastasis - readings and debates?

[~Anastasia~]

Hello all,

Someone has asked me for resources regarding discussions of Apocastasis within the early Church. I've read some on it, but can't remember what documents those were, and not sure if they would be the best to point someone to.

Can anyone remind me please what would be good to recommend?

I also prefer not to explain the difference between what was acceptable to the Church and what was condemned since I basically just hold a very simple position of hope for each person, and hope and trust in the mercy of God. Anyone who wishes to explain the nuances - it might interest the person who asked me. I've invited them to this thread.

Thanks for pointing out the resources if anyone can help.

 

[ArmyMatt]

St Gregory of Nyssa On the Resurrection and his catechism but you gotta read him carefully. he is not the universalist folks make him out to be.

 

[HTacianas]

Hello all,

Someone has asked me for resources regarding discussions of Apocastasis within the early Church. I've read some on it, but can't remember what documents those were, and not sure if they would be the best to point someone to.

Can anyone remind me please what would be good to recommend?

I also prefer not to explain the difference between what was acceptable to the Church and what was condemned since I basically just hold a very simple position of hope for each person, and hope and trust in the mercy of God. Anyone who wishes to explain the nuances - it might interest the person who asked me. I've invited them to this thread.

Thanks for pointing out the resources if anyone can help.

You people with your confusing Greek words. I tell you. I had to look that up and honestly I'm still not sure what your question is.

Can you explain it for us simple folk?

 

[Silmarien]

Father Aidan Kimel is a good resource on all things Universalist. He's got a whole bunch of readings listed on it here--down towards the bottom of that list is a paper by John R. Sachs called "Apocatastasis in Patristic Theology" that Kimel has uploaded to scribd, so it may be helpful. (Sachs appears to be Catholic, but Kimel is Orthodox so you can hopefully trust his recommendations.)

 

[All4Christ]

I had to refresh my memory as well. For the convenience of other readers:

“Apocatastasis or apokatastasis (from Greek: ἀποκατάστασις; literally, "restoration" or "return") is the teaching that everyone will, in the end, be saved. It looks toward the ultimate reconciliation of good and evil; all creatures endowed with reason, angels and humans, will eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom.”

 

[ArmyMatt]

I had to refresh my memory as well. For the convenience of other readers:

“Apocatastasis or apokatastasis (from Greek: ἀποκατάστασις; literally, "restoration" or "return") is the teaching that everyone will, in the end, be saved. It looks toward the ultimate reconciliation of good and evil; all creatures endowed with reason, angels and humans, will eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom.”

but we have to be clear about what we mean. to view this term like St Maximos the confessor does is true and good (and what St Gregory of Nyssa hints at). and that is that there is a universalism in the sense that sin and death are destroyed, all will get a resurrected body, and all will be flooded with God's Light and Love. that is true, because if you want sin and death, the very salvation coming will be a torment.

but to understand it like Origen is heretical.

sorry, just trying to clarify.

 

[~Anastasia~]

(Slowly it sinks in ...)

I guess it's hard to imagine someone who with knowledge and understanding would still choose to reject God and embrace hate, evil, and sin instead ... but some people talk as though they would choose that. I have to hope most would respond to God, given a true understanding of Him.

 

[ArmyMatt]

(Slowly it sinks in ...)

I guess it's hard to imagine someone who with knowledge and understanding would still choose to reject God and embrace hate, evil, and sin instead ... but some people talk as though they would choose that. I have to hope most would respond to God, given a true understanding of Him.

that is certainly our hope, that hell is empty. and I know it's hard to imagine, but we'll know when that day comes.

 

[All4Christ]

but we have to be clear about what we mean. to view this term like St Maximos the confessor does is true and good (and what St Gregory of Nyssa hints at). and that is that there is a universalism in the sense that sin and death are destroyed, all will get a resurrected body, and all will be flooded with God's Light and Love. that is true, because if you want sin and death, the very salvation coming will be a torment.

but to understand it like Origen is heretical.

sorry, just trying to clarify.

True - I wasn’t trying to say what we believe as Orthodox - just a general overview of the term and the general concept.

 

[ArmyMatt]

True - I wasn’t trying to say what we believe as Orthodox - just a general overview of the term and the general concept.

sure, I just wanted to jump before folks who think universalism is just some blanket affirmation that there is no hell come out of the woodwork.

 

[~Anastasia~]

True - I wasn’t trying to say what we believe as Orthodox - just a general overview of the term and the general concept.

sure, I just wanted to jump before folks who think universalism is just some blanket affirmation that there is no hell come out of the woodwork.

That's one reason I hesitated to define it (and y'all beat me to it anyway). I think between you, you did a good job of saying what needed to be said. It's one I prefer not to try to explain in depth.

 

[whereloveandmercymeet]

Thank you everyone. @~Anastasia~ posted because I saw something mentioned in passing on another thread and was after some reading material as I was intrigued. Thank you kindly for your pointers, it’s very interesting to read about.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you everyone. @~Anastasia~ posted because I saw something mentioned in passing on another thread and was after some reading material as I was intrigued. Thank you kindly for your pointers, it’s very interesting to read about.

Welcome to TAW.

Feel free to ask if you have any questions. Or even if you would like to debate - I placed it here on purpose so that anyone can post and debate if they wish.

 

[buzuxi02]

Universal salvation. A teaching which varied somewhat over the centuries usually said to have originated with Origen.
The Latin Church since the 12th century has referenced St Gregory of Nyssa on universal restoration to argue for the antiquity of purgatory.