Anything new in these debates?

[lesliedellow]

Which is, of course, why people leave those countries and come here to have medical services provided. Universal health care requires rationing to function, so those deemed not of significant value to the state do not get procedures which could ease their pain

You really really think any government entertaining thoughts of reelection could get away with that? American fundamentalists are as naive about politics as they are about science, it would seem.

 

[The Stamp]

The mouthy youth of Europe doesn't seem to have a very good grasp of history.

The mouthy from anywhere don't usually have a good grasp on anything that's why they're mouthy.

 

[The Stamp]

"Every other civilized country on the planet" has $billions more to spend on healthcare thanks to massive trade surpluses with (against) us.

And they still manage to spend half as much as the US on healthcare for equal or even better results.

 

[KWCrazy]

You really really think any government entertaining thoughts of reelection could get away with that?

Certainly, if they control the media, which the Democrats do.
Had you asked 10 years ago if any political party would run a candidate supported by the media who had committed multiple felonies in violation of the espionage act most would have thought it impossible.
Everything Obama said about Obamacare was a lie. Anyone who looked at it could see that it was designed to collapse by 2018, requiring a full government takeover of health care. Where is the outrage? There isn't any from the Democrats.

 

[lesliedellow]

Certainly, if they control the media, which the Democrats do.
Had you asked 10 years ago if any political party would run a candidate supported by the media who had committed multiple felonies in violation of the espionage act most would have thought it impossible.
Everything Obama said about Obamacare was a lie. Anyone who looked at it could see that it was designed to collapse by 2018, requiring a full government takeover of health care. Where is the outrage? There isn't any from the Democrats.

You can take it from me that your fantasies about the state rationing healthcare so that only its "favourites" get it, do not apply in Britain, and almost certainly not in any other European country either.

 

[The Stamp]

Which is, of course, why people leave those countries and come here to have medical services provided.

Only the extremely rich go to America for medical care but the exact opposite is true for ordinary Americans, if they have the sense they go abroad for treatment, have a holiday and still come back with money in the bank, have you not heard about medical tourism? look it up.

for Universal health care requires rationing to function, so those deemed not of significant value to the state do not get procedures which could ease their pain.

No other country has more rationing than the US, tens of millions of Americans are not even in the system so are left out completely. Nearly a million people go bankrupt every year in the US because of medical debt, that doesn't happen anywhere else in the industrialised world.

Like Obummer said, they can just take a pill... until they are addicted and the pain pills do nothing. Europe can keep their socialism and their socialized medicine. I'll never forget Kathleen Sibelius saying to the family of a 12 year old that not everyone gets to live. Fortunately she got her transplants and the liberals lost-- she lived.

It's obvious that if people keep thinking as you do (I know the number is getting smaller every year) it will be many years before the US has a decent health system.

Where else on earth would you lose your health insurance if you lost your job? nowhere because it only happens in America.

 

[KWCrazy]

You can take it from me that your fantasies about the state rationing healthcare so that only its "favourites" get it, do not apply in Britain, and almost certainly not in any other European country either.

Why should we?
We already had Kathleen Sebelius act as a one person death panel in refusing to give a waiver for a 10 year old girl who would be dead without a lung transplant. Fortunately, that little girl is still alive today, no thanks to the government.
Germany's Medical Association has called for a public debate on the state of the German health care system. They say a secret rationing of health care is taking place as doctors struggle to meet demand. German doctors are not always able to provide patients with the care they need due to financial constraints, according to medical chiefs in the country. source

“What NICE has become in practice is a rationing board. As health costs have exploded in Britain as in most developed countries, NICE has become the heavy that reduces spending by limiting the treatments that 61 million citizens are allowed to receive through the NHS.”

There are real consequences: “The Concord study published in 2008 showed that cancer survival rates in Britain are among the worst in Europe. Five-year survival rates among U.S. cancer patients are also significantly higher than in Europe: 84% vs. 73% for breast cancer, 92% vs. 57% for prostate cancer. source

You're wrong again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You're a terrible person.

I guess will this be another time I get into trouble with admin for calling you a nasty word (by my count the third time).

Funny how it's always you.

I do have that effect on some people.

You do know that Jesus upheld the death penalty.

 

[The Stamp]

You do know that Jesus upheld the death penalty.

How do you know what Jesus upheld or did not uphold? did Jesus ever write any of his thoughts down? or do you believe the people who wrote down what they thought he might have thought?
We don't know for sure if Jesus even existed so we sure don't know what he thought or said.

 

[Speedwell]

I do have that effect on some people.

You do know that Jesus upheld the death penalty.

"Let he who is without sin amongst you cast the first stone."

 

[lesliedellow]

Why should we?
We already had Kathleen Sebelius act as a one person death panel in refusing to give a waiver for a 10 year old girl who would be dead without a lung transplant. Fortunately, that little girl is still alive today, no thanks to the government.
Germany's Medical Association has called for a public debate on the state of the German health care system. They say a secret rationing of health care is taking place as doctors struggle to meet demand. German doctors are not always able to provide patients with the care they need due to financial constraints, according to medical chiefs in the country. source

“What NICE has become in practice is a rationing board. As health costs have exploded in Britain as in most developed countries, NICE has become the heavy that reduces spending by limiting the treatments that 61 million citizens are allowed to receive through the NHS.”

There are real consequences: “The Concord study published in 2008 showed that cancer survival rates in Britain are among the worst in Europe. Five-year survival rates among U.S. cancer patients are also significantly higher than in Europe: 84% vs. 73% for breast cancer, 92% vs. 57% for prostate cancer. source

You're wrong again.

No I'm not. The NHS is a victim of its own success. People are living longer, but, as they age, they make ever greater demands upon the NHS. There is never enough money to meet demand, but at least somebody in Britain doesn't have to worry about the cost of healthcare. When the state is not involved, insurance premiums will rise with age, and people's ability to pay for it will decline with age.

 

[lesliedellow]

How do you know what Jesus upheld or did not uphold? did Jesus ever write any of his thoughts down? or do you believe the people who wrote down what they thought he might have thought?
We don't know for sure if Jesus even existed so we sure don't know what he thought or said.

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of anywhere in the gospels where the death penalty is mentioned, except in connection with Jesus's own death.

 

[Speedwell]

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of anywhere in the gospels where the death penalty is mentioned, except in connection with Jesus's own death.

John 8:7

 

[lesliedellow]

John 8:7

That hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement of the death penalty. Leaving aside the fact that most of John 8 is missing from all the earliest manuscripts of John.

 

[AV1611VET]

We don't know for sure if Jesus even existed ...

Then you guys might want to do some catching up.

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically ...

SOURCE

 

[AV1611VET]

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of anywhere in the gospels where the death penalty is mentioned, except in connection with Jesus's own death.

Not to mention Barabbas, two thieves crucified with Christ, and Stephen ... right?

 

[lesliedellow]

Not to mention Barabbas, two thieves crucified with Christ, and Stephen ... right?

So what did Jesus have to say about then, to lend support to the argument that he favoured the death penalty?

Oh, and by the way, Barabbas wasn't executed.

 

[AV1611VET]

So what did Jesus have to say about then, to lend support to the argument that he favoured the death penalty?

I give up ... what?

 

[lesliedellow]

I give up ... what?

Um, nothing.

 

[Larniavc]

I do have that effect on some people.

You do know that Jesus upheld the death penalty.

Yeah.

Jesus was all about the k/dr