Anything new in these debates?

[pitabread]

Anything new in these debates?

I used to post here almost a decade ago (under a different alias). Coming back I see that for the most part, absolutely nothing has changed. It made me laugh to read through the transitional fossils thread and see the same creationist PRATTs being trotted out. Same ol', same ol'.

It's the same reading visiting creationist sites. They are still merely existing to put out propaganda pieces to counter evolution (and other sciences) in the media, little else. I especially got a kick out reading a Tomkins article on AiG about comparative genomics and his whining about "evolutionary bias" in the methodologies. It's hilarious because it's true that certain comparative genomics techniques do use evolutionary relationships (i.e. common descent) as part of their comparison methodology. But they are also an applied science with industry applications, especially in modern agriculture. When you start talking about profit-driven industry, the idea that these evolutionary biases are ideological in nature go right out the window. I don't think the agricultural or medical industries give two hoots about so-called evolutionary ideology as long as they can exploit these methodologies to reap the gains.

Of course creationists were silent on this ten years ago and remain silent on it today. There is a giant blind spot in the creationist camp as to how mainstream evolutionary biology is applied especially in the fields of genetics and genomics. Creationist orgs certainly don't talk about it and as a consequence, their followers remain largely oblivious. Meanwhile, science marches on.

 

[KWCrazy]

I give up ... what?

Jesus did not make a statement against capital punishment because the wages of sin are death. The thieves broke the law knowing the punishment if they got caught. The one who recognized Him as the son of God was saved by his faith, but he was still put to death.

 

[sfs]

Not to mention Barabbas, two thieves crucified with Christ, and Stephen ... right?

Well, no. Stephen isn't mentioned in the gospels.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How do you know what Jesus upheld or did not uphold? did Jesus ever write any of his thoughts down? or do you believe the people who wrote down what they thought he might have thought?
We don't know for sure if Jesus even existed so we sure don't know what he thought or said.

A completely irrelevant comment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So what did Jesus have to say about then, to lend support to the argument that he favoured the death penalty?

He doesn't 'favor' the death penalty, he upheld it under the Law. Of course one could make the case for favoring it over other punishments seeing that he is going to lead a bloodbath when he returns. Anyway here's the account.

Matthew 15:3-5 (KJV)

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

and

Mark 7:9-11

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

There are many such terse things said by Jesus, but liberal Christians eyes glaze and their ears lop over whenever they are exposed to them. We all should read and consider each and every word spoken by Jesus.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, no. Stephen isn't mentioned in the gospels.

Mmmm ... good catch!

 

[The Stamp]

A completely irrelevant comment.

Irrelevant because you don't want to recognise the fact but it's all true none the less.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Irrelevant because you don't want to recognise the fact but it's all true none the less.

See the link in AV's post #163. Jesus is even revered by Muslims as a great teacher.

 

[The Stamp]

See the link in AV's post #163. Jesus is even revered by Muslims as a great teacher.

Tap dance all you like but you know it's true, how you manage to live with that fact is up to you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Tap dance all you like but you know it's true, how you manage to live with that fact is up to you.

I posted this for your benefit, not mine.

 

[The Stamp]

I posted this for your benefit, not mine.

Of course you did because the truth about Jesus means nothing to you and means so much to me as an atheist.
You want to believe that Jesus said this or that but we both know that no one knows what Jesus said if indeed he said anything.

 

[KWCrazy]

Of course you did because the truth about Jesus means nothing to you and means so much to me as an atheist.
You want to believe that Jesus said this or that but we both know that no one knows what Jesus said if indeed he said anything.

If you're an atheist why do you care what Jesus said or didn't say? Why would His opinion be of any more value to you than anyone else's? Not all of what Jesus said or did was recorded. We have what we have. If you really want to know invite Jesus into your heart. If you want to know what that's like, ask any former atheist.

 

[lesliedellow]

Of course you did because the truth about Jesus means nothing to you and means so much to me as an atheist.
You want to believe that Jesus said this or that but we both know that no one knows what Jesus said if indeed he said anything.

Is Jesus Christ a Myth? Part 4

 

[The Stamp]

If you're an atheist why do you care what Jesus said or didn't say? Why would His opinion be of any more value to you than anyone else's? Not all of what Jesus said or did was recorded. We have what we have. If you really want to know invite Jesus into your heart. If you want to know what that's like, ask any former atheist.

They are standard religious replies, when you can't answer the question attack the questioner or reply with a question.

 

[The Stamp]

You do know that Jesus upheld the death penalty.

How do you know what Jesus upheld or did not uphold? did Jesus ever write any of his thoughts down? or do you believe the people who wrote down what they thought he might have thought?
We don't know for sure if Jesus even existed so we sure don't know what he thought or said.

A completely irrelevant comment.

How is it a completely irrelevant comment when I was replying to your comment?
You don't have an answer do you?

 

[KWCrazy]

They are standard religious replies, when you can't answer the question attack the questioner or reply with a question.

Nobody attacked you.
Why do you, as an atheist, care what Jesus had to say?

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't have an answer do you?

I do.

Here you go:

Shortly thereafter, Jesus tells Pilate in John 19:11, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above …." This authority to put Jesus to death would be odd if it didn't entail the general power to execute criminals. Finally, when He is dying by crucifixion, Jesus accepts the repentance of the thief on the cross, who says to his reviling companion, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds…" (Luke 23:40-41). Had Jesus disagreed with this statement, responding to it with the promise of eternal salvation was a rather obtuse way to express the correction.

Beyond all this evidence that Jesus affirms the consistent biblical principle of capital punishment, there is yet one more vital concept to grasp. Christians believe that Christ died on the cross to pay for the sins of us all. Although His sinlessness merited eternal life, He endured the death we deserved to extend that gift to us. As Clark University Professor Michael Pakaluk so perfectly expressed the point, "If no crime deserves the death penalty, then it is hard to see why it was fitting that Christ be put to death for our sins…." If we didn't deserve the death penalty ourselves, then why would Christ need to suffer it on our behalf in order to satisfy the justice of God? Denying the death penalty directly assaults the justice of the Father—the One who required His own Son to pay precisely that price in our stead.

SOURCE

 

[The Stamp]

Nobody attacked you.
Why do you, as an atheist, care what Jesus had to say?

I don't because we both know he didn't say anything, when we read "and Jesus said" we know he didn't, someone else wrote it because Jesus didn't write anything and had been dead for many years before anything in the N/T was written.

 

[The Stamp]

Here you go:
Shortly thereafter, Jesus tells Pilate in John 19:11, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above …." This authority to put Jesus to death would be odd if it didn't entail the general power to execute criminals. Finally, when He is dying by crucifixion, Jesus accepts the repentance of the thief on the cross, who says to his reviling companion, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds…" (Luke 23:40-41). Had Jesus disagreed with this statement, responding to it with the promise of eternal salvation was a rather obtuse way to express the correction.

SOURCE

How do you know Jesus said or did any of that?

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you know Jesus said or did any of that?

My pastor said He did.