Anyone up for a chat thread?

[Philip_B]

Ive been thinking a lot about who we are at an atomic level. I find it so incredulous that we are carbon, potassium, sodium hydrogen, nitrogen (plus other elements), and these atoms have arranged in a manner whereby the atoms itself have self-awareness as a collective. How did a bag of chemicals gain awareness of itself. And what is it in those chemicals that makes me who I am. Its easy to go straight to the brain because certainly losing a leg doesn't change who I am , but injuring the brain does. So am I the movement of sodium and potassium across the cell membrane of neurons? Am I the composite of the equivalent of ones and zeros in the hard drive of a computer. Because the moment my brain is injured or dies, that sodium and potassium which generates electrical potential in my neurons, is disrupted and its at this point I cease to be me..... so what does that mean when thinking about sirituality

I am not sure that a brain injury changes who you are. I had a major fall quite a few years back and suffered a brain injury and didn't wake up for six weeks, and then a long road to recovery. I don't think it changed who I was though I do think I learned a lot from that experience and grew quite a bit. I would take the view that we are more than an atomic level, and more than the movement of neurons. The essence of who we are is entwined in all of this, and yet not the prisoner of it.

 

[Mary7]

It's so rare to see people kneeling today anyway. I make a point of kneeling when I'm leading services because I don't want that to be lost as a "normal" posture for prayer, but I don't think anyone in my congregation does.

Growing up in TEC every one kneeled and new people always fainted.
I would still kneel but I have bad knees. The church here is combined with the Lutheran church and very few kneel.

 

[Paidiske]

I did get some strange looks when I was prostrate on Good Friday. I have a feeling their last priest didn't do that....

 

[everbecoming2007]

I did get some strange looks when I was prostrate on Good Friday. I have a feeling their last priest didn't do that....

I go prostrate in some of my prayers but that is strictly private -- when I'm alone. What part of the Good Friday service do you do this?

 

[seeking.IAM]

One priest and one parishioner prostrated themselves at my church on Good Friday. As for kneeling, 99.9 % of my church kneels. Our former Priest tried to change that by pointing out:

• The rubrics of our Book of Common Prayer say "Stand or kneel," meaning that standing is preferred since it is listed first, and
• The Council of Nicaea determined that the proper posture for prayer was standing, except during penitential times (i.e. Lent).

Alas, his coaching largely fell on deaf ears. People continued to kneel if they could and stayed seated if they couldn't kneel. We have 2 to 3 persons who will stand, but most do not.

 

[Paidiske]

I go prostrate in some of my prayers but that is strictly private -- when I'm alone. What part of the Good Friday service do you do this?

Right at the beginning. The Maundy Thursday service ends in silence and darkness, with the people departing without blessing (in effect, the service doesn't end as such; it just pauses and resumes on Friday morning). So they come in on Friday morning to find me prostrate before the cross, as if I have been there all night in prayer (in fact, I haven't, of course; but it helps that sense of continuity between the two services, and drives home without saying a word, the level of solemnity of the day).

 

[everbecoming2007]

One priest and one parishioner prostrated themselves at my church on Good Friday. As for kneeling, 99.9 % of my church kneels. Our former Priest tried to change that by pointing out:

• The rubrics of our Book of Common Prayer say "Stand or kneel," meaning that standing is preferred since it is listed first, and
• The Council of Nicaea determined that the proper posture for prayer was standing, except during penitential times (i.e. Lent).

Alas, his coaching largely fell on deaf ears. People continued to kneel if they could and stayed seated if they couldn't kneel. We have 2 to 3 persons who will stand, but most do not.

Standing is fine, but kneeling has been a posture of reverence for so long in the West that trying to impose something else just isn't going to have the same effect psychologically for many people. The canons of these councils are not hard and fast rules.

 

[Philip_B]

Article XXXIV
Of the Traditions of the Church
It is not necessary that Traditions and Ceremonies be in all places one, and utterly like; for at all times they have been divers, and may be changed according to the diversities of countries, times, and men’s manners, so that nothing be ordained against God’s Word. Whosoever through his private judgement, willingly and purposely, doth openly break the traditions and ceremonies of the Church, which be not repugnant to the Word of God, and be ordained and approved by common authority, ought to be rebuked openly, (that others may fear to do the like,) as he that offendeth against the common order of the Church, and hurteth the authority of the Magistrate, and woundeth the consciences of the weak brethren.

Every particular or national Church hath authority to ordain, change, and abolish, ceremonies or rites of the Church ordained only by man’s authority, so that all things be done to edifying.​

I don't think I have anything to add save to point out the article. We have an Indian in our congregation who takes off his shoes to go up for communion. I really like it, but have not had the courage to try it. We are a mixed bag and we all do different things in the liturgy, and seem to get along OK.

 

[everbecoming2007]

Article XXXIV
Of the Traditions of the Church
It is not necessary that Traditions and Ceremonies be in all places one, and utterly like; for at all times they have been divers, and may be changed according to the diversities of countries, times, and men’s manners, so that nothing be ordained against God’s Word. Whosoever through his private judgement, willingly and purposely, doth openly break the traditions and ceremonies of the Church, which be not repugnant to the Word of God, and be ordained and approved by common authority, ought to be rebuked openly, (that others may fear to do the like,) as he that offendeth against the common order of the Church, and hurteth the authority of the Magistrate, and woundeth the consciences of the weak brethren.

Every particular or national Church hath authority to ordain, change, and abolish, ceremonies or rites of the Church ordained only by man’s authority, so that all things be done to edifying.​

I don't think I have anything to add save to point out the article. We have an Indian in our congregation who takes off his shoes to go up for communion. I really like it, but have not had the courage to try it. We are a mixed bag and we all do different things in the liturgy, and seem to get along OK.

I don't disagree. But it doesn't seem edifying to me to impose on people who are accustomed to kneeling as a posture of reverence, nor would I want to impose on say, the Orthodox, to kneel when they associate standing with reverence.

 

[seeking.IAM]

My former priest contended that kneeling was not a posture of prayer until the Reformation. I don't know if that is correct, but he said it. I have an interest in historical Christianity, so I'm rather fond of the position taken by the church at the Council in 325 AD. Still, even though I am attracted to the idea of standing, I feel very conspicuous and am not at ease to stand when all those around me are kneeling.

 

[mama2one]

We have an Indian in our congregation who takes off his shoes to go up for communion. I.​

speaking of shoes, we've attended a church where the Pastor asked everyone to take off their shoes on the way out of church in order to donate them
(not at that particular service but heard about it)

at the time I selfishly thought glad we weren't there as only had one pair of "good" shoes
now I would hope that I would gladly give them up​

 

[everbecoming2007]

My former priest contended that kneeling was not a posture of prayer until the Reformation. I don't know if that is correct, but he said it. I have an interest in historical Christianity, so I'm rather fond of the position taken by the church at the Council in 325 AD. Still, even though I am attracted to the idea of standing, I feel very conspicuous and am not at ease to stand when all those around me are kneeling.

I am not sure that is true and probably irrelevant anyway. Roman Catholics traditionally knelt for communion and at other times. The Orthodox and Eastern Catholics traditionally stand for communion.

 

[Paidiske]

To me, it's not so much the standing or kneeling that bothers me, but the sitting through everything. I don't think that's very helpful to a sense of actual participation in the liturgy.

 

[everbecoming2007]

To me, it's not so much the standing or kneeling that bothers me, but the sitting through everything. I don't think that's very helpful to a sense of actual participation in the liturgy.

Does this happen in parishes you have frequented?

 

[Paidiske]

I've been in parishes where people have sat through everything except the singing. (So no kneeling/standing for prayers, no standing for the gospel, etc).

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Interesting discussion. In Orthodoxy, there is generally no kneeling at all (with the notable exception of the Kneeling Prayers at Pentecost) and no prostrations on Sundays because of the Resurrection. During weekday Liturgies, there are a couple of places where people are to prostrate; and lots of prostrations during Lenten services.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

We don’t kneel (we got rid of our kneelers).

I have only seen lying prostrate at a house party.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I've been in parishes where people have sat through everything except the singing. (So no kneeling/standing for prayers, no standing for the gospel, etc).

We stand for the affirmation and peace, and in our formal service, for the gospel.

Other than that, it is to sing.

 

[Paidiske]

Two of the kids - the kids! - in the parish have come up with the idea, and asked to run a trivia night to raise funds for Orange Sky Laundries. ( Orange Sky Laundry )

They'll need a bit of hand-holding on the organising of it, but I'm so thrilled to bits to see them taking on something like that!

 

[Naomi4Christ]

How lovely! TBTG