Anyone have a brief overview of what is to come?

[TribulationSigns]

I'd rather allow you to reach your own conclusion based upon the EVIDENCE.

Like you have any evidence! You have poor biblical exegesis, to begin with anyway. Too many unbiblical theories and speculations.

 

[BobRyan]

No, we are years away from the 42 months of Revelation 13:5.

On the contrary - that 1260 day-for-year period known as the "dark ages" is over. In Rev 13 we have the first coming of Christ - followed by his ascension into heaven, followed by 1260 years of the dark ages.

All of which have ended.

The 70 week timeline started in 457 B.C.
69 weeks - 483 days - = 483 years because all apocalyptic timelines use day-for-year. 27 AD.
70th week - 7 days = 7 years from 27 A.D. to 34 A.D.
27 A.D. - Christ is anointed for ministry as the Anointed one - at His baptism
31 A.D. - midst of the week - Christ is cut off... Crucified
32 A.D. - Gospel goes to gentiles - Stephen is killed. Saul--> Paul.

You left out the destruction of the city and temple - which happened in 70 AD.

No doubt a great many events happen after that 490 year timeline that starts in 457 B.C. and ends in 34 A.D.

the destruction of the city -- After which, comes the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

1. The Messiah is cut off - crucified in the midst of that week of years -- in 31.A.D.
2. the text does not say "after the city is destroyed the messiah will be cut off"


" the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"

Speaks of a future event - but the text does not say that the people of the future prince destroy the city before the Messiah is cut off. Or that they do it within the 70 week timeline at all.



Messiah - in the 70th week
Next verse...27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Matt 26:28 - Christ says "This is the New Covenant in My blood" - Christ confirms/ratifies the covenant

Hebrews 10:4-12 says that at the crucifixion the Messiah causes sacrifices and offering to cease - "He takes away the first to establish the second"

All fulfilled.

==========================

Irrefutable rule.

All... Bible Timelines.. are ... contiguous.

that means you cannot chop up the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy mentioned in Daniel 9:1-9 and insert massive gaps of unknown-numbers-of-eons into the middle of it.

Nor can you do that with any other quantified timeline in the Bible.

 

[Douggg]

Messiah - in the 70th week
Next verse...27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

The little horn person in Daniel 8:11 stops the daily sacrifice. The vision is for time of the end - in the text..

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

And the daily sacrifice continued long past Stephen. Stephen is not the fulfillment of the 70 weeks prophecy. He is part of many wonderful Christian's we can be thankful for and will have his day in glory, when he returns with Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

1. The Messiah is cut off - crucified in the midst of that week of years -- in 31.A.D.
2. the text does not say "after the city is destroyed the messiah will be cut off"

No-one is claiming that after the city is destroyed the messiah will be cut off.

The order of the text is the messiah is cutoff, then afterward, the city and sanctuary are destroyed. Which happened in 70 AD.

So there had to be a break in the 70 weeks of years (490 years) - which happened at the messiah death.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem that final passover week of his life. Arriving in Jerusalem hailed as the messiah. John 12:12-13. 4 days later, Jesus was crucified. The gap begins.

Irrefutable rule.

All... Bible Timelines.. are ... contiguous.

that means you cannot chop up the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy mentioned in Daniel 9:1-9 and insert massive gaps of unknown-numbers-of-eons into the middle of it.

No, there is no such irrefutable rule. In Ezekiel 39, there is a 7 year gap in the text between verse 16 and verses 17-20.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Constantine didn't combine paganism and Christianity...

He most certainly did. He called himself "pontifus maximus" essentially making himself the first pope. Look at the catholic church with its candles and incense and kissing of statues toes and rituals. Purely pagan and matches pagan practices. The christians did not do these things.

Christian sects in his empire were fighting over whether Jesus was a created being or part of the Trinity.

He wanted them to knock that off, so he called a council of all the bishops to sort it out once and for all.

Nonsense. He was not even a christian and got baptised right before he died. He did not care about that. He cared about power and being the head of all religious organizations in his empire.

The creeds came out of those councils.

On the CF Statement of Faith Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

Those councils are literally where that Creed comes from.

I'm not sure where you got your information from, but please recheck and verify vs. multiple independent sources.

Where are you getting you information about the motives of Constantine? Read about when he was finally baptised.

There were various false groups then as there are now and they met (no record of fighting) to decide the position the believers had. Your probably don't know it but the opinions as to the nature of Christ were more than one in the lifetime of the disciples and the council did not settle it once and for all. Those varied opinions still exist today.

And uh, I know the Nicene and Apostles creed from childhood. You should avoid being so condescending and assume other posters are educated first.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It has not yet begun

That is what a lot of Christians believed since the beginning of the false teaching dispensationalism. It is not true and requires ignorance of history to believe.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is not ten kings of ten nations. It is ten kings - leaders. It does not have to be ten leaders - each of an individual nation.

It is likely that the EU will have ten representative districts - metric system - which is based on ten toes, ten fingers (thumbs) on the hand. Some districts would have one country, others two or three - in order to more equalize the population representation.

Parable of the fig tree, puts a ceiling the length of a generation onto 1967, Jerusalem the fig tree. 1967 + 70 = 2037 minus 7 years = 2030 beginning of the 70th week, at the latest.

If is very unlikely the EU is going to do anything like that. It is reaching to assume it is and that is often what these "Late Great Planet Earther" do. Make up something.

And, Jesus cursed the fig tree and it withered and would never bear fruit again. To drive the point home, he flatly said that the kingdom of God is now taken away from the Jews and not kept in waiting but actually given elsewhere. He said that Israel would be left desolate. It was. And the mosaic law is dead. It will never be restored.

Futurists are not wishing suffering and evil upon the world. That's a mis-characterization. You are making an advertising campaign for the preterist view.

Labels make it easy to dismiss. I believe the prophies of JEsus were fulfilled because he said that some standing there would see it with their own eyes. That dates the fulfillment to that generation. Those who deny this have a big struggle with Jesus either being ignorant or lying.

God is the One Who is putting an end to Satan's kingdom overshadowing the world. To bring in everlasting righteousness to complete the 70 weeks. That is what will be taking place during the 70th week - the prosecution of Satan and his angels.

It is over but it is not a hostile take over. The kingdom of satan if losing ground every generation.

Babylon is fallen, is fallen! That is what is going to be said during that day. That's not what has happened yet, but it is going to happen. And that day is nearly here.

It was. It was Jerusalem and it says so plainly. The Christian then knew that was it. John said it was coming soon. The Christian fled and missed the wrath of God. Scripture after scripture marvelously fulfilled. It is as thrilling to read as the scriptures fulfilled at the birth of Christ.

Drop the idea that we do not want others to suffer or we can pick up the opposite claim that you just want people to suffer. What is fair is fair.

 

[Petros2015]

Nonsense. He was not even a christian and got baptised right before he died.

I'm aware of that, he was an emporer. Emporers don't like it when there are a bunch of sects of religions they don't fully understand fighting over things they don't understand. Bad for the peace. Emporers also tend to have a lot of blood on their hands by the end of their reign. That's why he waited for the baptism.

He did a lot of good things for Christianity. He used his authority as emporer to call the councils. He commissioned some of the first bibles. He ended Christian persecution in the Roman empire.

No Constantine, no councils. No councils, no creed. Probably no organized church. No organized church, no bibles...

Anyway, read up on it and you decide whether he was a overall positive influence or not. He is a good historical figure to know about.

Constantine the Great - Wikipedia

Fifty Bibles of Constantine - Wikipedia

Constantine was the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.[notes 1] Although he lived most of his life as a pagan, he joined the Christian faith on his deathbed, being baptised by Eusebius of Nicomedia. He played an influential role in the proclamation of the Edict of Milan in 313, which declared religious tolerance for Christianity in the Roman empire. He called the First Council of Nicaea in 325 that produced the statement of Christian belief known as the Nicene Creed.
...
The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the emperor to have great influence and authority in the early Christian councils, most notably the dispute over Arianism. Constantine disliked the risks to societal stability that religious disputes and controversies brought with them, preferring to establish an orthodoxy.[226] His influence over the Church councils was to enforce doctrine, root out heresy, and uphold ecclesiastical unity; the Church's role was to determine proper worship, doctrines, and dogma.[227]
...
Constantine was the first emperor to stop the persecution of Christians and to legalise Christianity, along with all other religions and cults in the Roman Empire. In February 313, he met with Licinius in Milan and developed the Edict of Milan, which stated that Christians should be allowed to follow their faith without oppression.[214] This removed penalties for professing Christianity, under which many had been martyred previously, and it returned confiscated Church property. The edict protected all religions from persecution, not only Christianity, allowing anyone to worship any deity that they chose. A similar edict had been issued in 311 by Galerius, senior emperor of the Tetrarchy, which granted Christians the right to practise their religion but did not restore any property to them.[215] The Edict of Milan included several clauses which stated that all confiscated churches would be returned, as well as other provisions for previously persecuted Christians. Scholars debate whether Constantine adopted his mother Helena's Christianity in his youth, or whether he adopted it gradually over the course of his life.[216]
...
Constantine possibly retained the title of pontifex maximus which emperors bore as heads of the ancient Roman religion until Gratian renounced the title.[217][218] According to Christian writers, Constantine was over 40 when he finally declared himself a Christian, making it clear that he owed his successes to the protection of the Christian High God alone.[219] Despite these declarations of being a Christian, he waited to be baptized on his deathbed, believing that the baptism would release him of any sins he committed in the course of carrying out his policies while emperor. He supported the Church financially, built basilicas, granted privileges to clergy (such as exemption from certain taxes), promoted Christians to high office, and returned property confiscated during the long period of persecution.[220] His most famous building projects include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and Old Saint Peter's Basilica. In constructing the Old Saint Peter's Basilica Constantine went to great lengths to erect the basilica on top of St. Peter's resting place, so much so that it even effected the design of the basilica and even undertook the challenge of erecting it on the hill where St. Peter rested, making its complete construction time over 30 years from the date Constantine ordered it to be built.
...
North African bishops struggled with Christian bishops who had been ordained by Donatus in opposition to Caecilian from 313 to 316. The African bishops could not come to terms and the Donatists asked Constantine to act as a judge in the dispute. Three regional Church councils and another trial before Constantine all ruled against Donatus and the Donatism movement in North Africa. In 317, Constantine issued an edict to confiscate Donatist church property and to send Donatist clergy into exile.[228] More significantly, in 325 he summoned the First Council of Nicaea, most known for its dealing with Arianism and for instituting the Nicene Creed. He enforced the Council's prohibition against celebrating the Lord's Supper on the day before the Jewish Passover, which marked a definite break of Christianity from the Judaic tradition. From then on, the solar Julian Calendar was given precedence over the lunisolar Hebrew Calendar among the Christian churches of the Roman Empire.[229]

 

[Petros2015]

Where are you getting you information about the motives of Constantine? Read about when he was finally baptised.

My sources in previous links with wikipedia citing multiple sub sources. I guess, same question to you?

 

[BobRyan]

No, we are years away from the 42 months of Revelation 13:5.

On the contrary - that 1260 day-for-year period known as the "dark ages" is over. In Rev 13 we have the first coming of Christ - followed by his ascension into heaven, followed by 1260 years of the dark ages.

All of which have ended.

The 70 week timeline started in 457 B.C.
69 weeks - 483 days - = 483 years because all apocalyptic timelines use day-for-year. 27 AD.
70th week - 7 days = 7 years from 27 A.D. to 34 A.D.
27 A.D. - Christ is anointed for ministry as the Anointed one - at His baptism
31 A.D. - midst of the week - Christ is cut off... Crucified
32 A.D. - Gospel goes to gentiles - Stephen is killed. Saul--> Paul.

You left out the destruction of the city and temple - which happened in 70 AD.

No doubt a great many events happen after that 490 year timeline that starts in 457 B.C. and ends in 34 A.D.

the destruction of the city -- After which, comes the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

1. The Messiah is cut off - crucified in the midst of that week of years -- in 31.A.D.
2. the text does not say "after the city is destroyed the messiah will be cut off"


" the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"

Speaks of a future event - but the text does not say that the people of the future prince destroy the city before the Messiah is cut off. Or that they do it within the 70 week timeline at all.



Messiah - in the 70th week
Next verse...27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Matt 26:28 - Christ says "This is the New Covenant in My blood" - Christ confirms/ratifies the covenant

Hebrews 10:4-12 says that at the crucifixion the Messiah causes sacrifices and offering to cease - "He takes away the first to establish the second"

All fulfilled.

==========================

Irrefutable rule.

All... Bible Timelines.. are ... contiguous.

that means you cannot chop up the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy mentioned in Daniel 9:1-9 and insert massive gaps of unknown-numbers-of-eons into the middle of it.

Nor can you do that with any other quantified timeline in the Bible.

No-one is claiming that after the city is destroyed the messiah will be cut off.

I am glad to hear it. because there is a ton of confusion on how folks are chopping up timelines in Daniel 9.

The order of the text is the messiah is cutoff, then afterward, the city and sanctuary are destroyed. Which happened in 70 AD.

Indeed.

So there had to be a break in the 70 weeks of years (490 years)

Not true at all - prophecies of the future can include the fact that something happens for 10 years and also that other things happen beyond that ten year event. This does not justify the "slice up ... insert unknown gaps of time, slice-and-dice" abuse of a timeline

Jesus rode into Jerusalem that final passover week of his life. Arriving in Jerusalem hailed as the messiah. John 12:12-13.

Jesus claimed the Messiah role long before that -- John 4 "I am He" when asked about it. The creative writing that needs to claim that Jesus did not begin his role as Messiah until the last 7 days of his life on earth - is more creative writing and less Bible than we need.

4 days later, Jesus was crucified. The gap begins.

Nope. No gap ever begins in timelines. No "insert all the time you want" in the middle of timelines.

No, there is no such irrefutable rule. In Ezekiel 39, there is a 7 year gap in the text between verse 16 and verses 17-20.

utter nonsense.

Ezek 39 is a great example of NO a timeline.

16 And even the name of the city will be Hamonah. So they will cleanse the land.”’
17 “As for you, son of man, thus says the Lord God, ‘Speak to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble and come, gather from every side to My sacrifice which I am going to sacrifice for you, as a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, as though they were rams, lambs, goats and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan. 19 So you will eat fat until you are glutted, and drink blood until you are drunk, from My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. 20 You will be glutted at My table with horses and charioteers, with mighty men and all the men of war,” declares the Lord God.

No Timeline AT ALL in that chapter. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

(Creative writers place such high demand and expectation on the imagination of the reader)

Daniel 9:1-2 is an example OF a TIMELINE

In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.


Daniel 9
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,

A clear and obvious timeline

The future is prediction is continued --

(and the people of the prince who is to come (pagan Rome) will destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined --- actions of Pagan Rome)

27 And he (the Messiah) will make a firm covenant with the many for one week ("This is the New Covenant in My Blood" Matthew 26:28), but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; (Hebrews 10:4-12 Messiah stops sacrifices and offerings)

(and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” -- another ref to Pagain Rome)

 

[Erik Nelson]

Jesus clearly linked the "abomination of desolation", "spoken of by Daniel the Prophet" = Daniel 9:27...

to the 70 AD destruction of the physical temple...

so, although the Daniel text may be confusing & ambiguous, the Messiah Himself stated, that

AoD = Dan 9:27 = 70 AD

If so, then the 70th week = 7 years centered on 70 AD = 67-73 AD = 1st Jewish-Roman War, and the "prince of the people who shall come" would basically be Titus / Vespasian and the Legions

Revelation was originally written about 65-66 AD. It circulated amongst the Churches of Asia minor during Nero's persecution, after the Great Fire of Rome in July 64 AD and the outbreak of hostilities between Rome & Judea 2 years later.

Revelation, and John's presence, got the early Church through its first major tribulation. It did strengthen the Christian Covenant for the duration of the war, after which Christians enjoyed a reprieve for decades.

Christ, acting from heaven through John, via the book of Revelation, already strengthened the Christian Covenant through the trying times surrounding the Jewish-Roman War, which raised the physical temple in 70 AD.

Had it been otherwise, Nero's persecution would have destroyed the Church, ending Christianity as a minor & obscure footnote in Roman imperial history... instead, Christ, acting from heaven through John, via the book of Revelation, supernaturally strengthened the Christian Covenant through the trying times surrounding the Jewish-Roman War, 2000 years ago

which is why you're a Christian today, as noted

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus clearly linked the "abomination of desolation", "spoken of by Daniel the Prophet" = Daniel 9:27...

No he is not. Jesus reminds us of a great many statements by prophets in the OT - but not all of them are talking about events inside the 490 years of Daniel 9.

the Messiah Himself stated, that

AoD = Dan 9:27 = 70 AD

True - but what He did not say is that the future event he spoke of was within the 70 weeks or literally - the 490 year timeline from 457 to Ad 34.

If so, then the 70th week = 7 years centered on 70 AD = 67-73 AD = 1st Jewish-Roman War,

Not at all required since Daniel 9 does not say that the future destruction of Jerusalem takes place in that 490 year timeline from 457 B.C. to 34 A.D.

 

[TribulationSigns]

On the contrary - that 1260 day-for-year period known as the "dark ages" is over.

Based on what Scripture do you find 1,260 days as "dark ages". I do not see that in Scripture.

The 70 week timeline started in 457 B.C.
69 weeks - 483 days - = 483 years because all apocalyptic timelines use day-for-year. 27 AD.
70th week - 7 days = 7 years from 27 A.D. to 34 A.D.
27 A.D. - Christ is anointed for ministry as the Anointed one - at His baptism
31 A.D. - midst of the week - Christ is cut off... Crucified
32 A.D. - Gospel goes to gentiles - Stephen is killed. Saul--> Paul.

No, no, no...

How can Christ's baptism be considered as confirming a covenant? Show us the Scripture.

1. The Messiah is cut off - crucified in the midst of that week of years -- in 31.A.D.

Incorrect. Messiah confirmed His covenant when he was cut off.

Dan 9:26-27
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.​

Think about it, how can a covenant be strengthen while Messiah was alive at baptism? Of course not. The covenant (also known as testament) cannot be confirmed unless he must die first and shed blood for it.

" the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;"

Speaks of a future event - but the text does not say that the people of the future prince destroy the city before the Messiah is cut off. Or that they do it within the 70 week timeline at all.

You got wrong people of the prince. They are not Romans. They are Christ's OWN PEOPLE, the Jews. They are the people of the Prince according to CONTEXT. God did not talk about another prince or evil prince here. IT is the same Messiah the Prince! Selah!

When the Jews came after Christ and put HIm to death, it marked the end of their kingdom representation which was taken from them and give to the one that Christ rebuilt in three days. Remember when Christ gave the Jews the SIGNS that THEY will destroy the temple and in three days Christ will raise it up. Forget Rome and Titus!

Messiah - in the 70th week
Next verse...27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Matt 26:28 - Christ says "This is the New Covenant in My blood" - Christ confirms/ratifies the covenant

His blood of the Covenant has to do with SALVATION for many which Christ is the high priest on our behalf. THis is the sacrifice and the obligation that Christ made for us. The sacrifice will last as long as Christ is saving his people until all Gentiles be coming in, then the sacrifice and the oblation needed for salvation will finally cease. That is in the future from the cross.

Hebrews 10:4-12 says that at the crucifixion the Messiah causes sacrifices and offering to cease - "He takes away the first to establish the second"

All fulfilled.

No, verse 12 stated "But this man, AFTER he had offered ONE sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God." This sacrifice come sunder the covenant he has confirmed which is better than old Jewish system. It is ongoing. Not finished at the cross.

The future is prediction is continued --

(and the people of the prince who is to come (pagan Rome) will destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined --- actions of Pagan Rome)

The peopel of the prince are not Romans. It is CHrist's people who will destory the city and the sanctuary which Christ's body represented. It brings the end to old testament congregation as a representaion for God's Kingdom because of their rejection. THe kingdom was taken from them and gave to another which is of course the church! God never talked abotu Romans in Daniel 9:26-27.

27 And he (the Messiah) will make a firm covenant with the many for one week ("This is the New Covenant in My Blood" Matthew 26:28), but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; (Hebrews 10:4-12 Messiah stops sacrifices and offerings)

The saractice and the obligation has to do with SALVATION that was going on since Pentecost. The sacrifice won't cease until all of His people Christ intended to seal has been sealed. Then the time of the end comes.

(and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” -- another ref to Pagain Rome)

Again, nothing to do w ith Rome, Jeruslaem 70AD, or future European union. Forget that. The abomiantion of desolation has to do with God's New Testament congregation (church) who Christ has confirmed a covenant WITH. Nothing to do with Jerusalem in the Middle East.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My sources in previous links with wikipedia citing multiple sub sources. I guess, same question to you?

So the wikipedia site attributes Constantine being concerned about the nature of Christ and not wanting to stayin power over all religions? Even though he was baptized shortly before his death not committing to being a Christian (if that ever happened) as a fact is left out? This is history. It is a fact. He was baptized shortly before he died when, frankly speaking, it did not really matter anymore as far as Rome was concerned.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm aware of that, he was an emporer. Emporers don't like it when there are a bunch of sects of religions they don't fully understand fighting over things they don't understand. Bad for the peace. Emporers also tend to have a lot of blood on their hands by the end of their reign. That's why he waited for the baptism.

I think your sources ought to stop trying to figure out what motives tyrants. There were a lot of religions in Rome in his day and he did not understand all of them nor did he need to. His army kept the peace as with all tyrants. Peace is not kept by having committies and the Christans were discussing, not killing each other.

He did a lot of good things for Christianity. He used his authority as emporer to call the councils. He commissioned some of the first bibles. He ended Christian persecution in the Roman empire.

He made Christianity legal and encorporated paganism into in and within his lifetime started persecuting all Christians who did not join his "christain" church. The ending of persecution was limiting. The Catholics continued it down through the centuries including burning Bibles and their owners. He did something very bad for Christianity as paganism entered its doors.
[quiote]
No Constantine, no councils. No councils, no creed. Probably no organized church. No organized church, no bibles...[/quote] No inquisition, no banning of Bible for centuries, no burnings at the stake of those who did not join, no telling the people that only the Pope can read the Bible and tell them what to believe. The church was better of beforehand.

Anyway, read up on it and you decide whether he was a overall positive influence or not. He is a good historical figure to know about.

The church was better off not being run by a tyrant.


Constantine was the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.[notes 1] Although he lived most of his life as a pagan, he joined the Christian faith on his deathbed, being baptised by Eusebius of Nicomedia. He played an influential role in the proclamation of the Edict of Milan in 313, which declared religious tolerance for Christianity in the Roman empire. He called the First Council of Nicaea in 325 that produced the statement of Christian belief known as the Nicene Creed.
...
The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the emperor to have great influence and authority in the early Christian councils, most notably the dispute over Arianism. Constantine disliked the risks to societal stability that religious disputes and controversies brought with them, preferring to establish an orthodoxy.[226] His influence over the Church councils was to enforce doctrine, root out heresy, and uphold ecclesiastical unity; the Church's role was to determine proper worship, doctrines, and dogma.[227]
...
Constantine was the first emperor to stop the persecution of Christians and to legalise Christianity, along with all other religions and cults in the Roman Empire. In February 313, he met with Licinius in Milan and developed the Edict of Milan, which stated that Christians should be allowed to follow their faith without oppression.[214] This removed penalties for professing Christianity, under which many had been martyred previously, and it returned confiscated Church property. The edict protected all religions from persecution, not only Christianity, allowing anyone to worship any deity that they chose. A similar edict had been issued in 311 by Galerius, senior emperor of the Tetrarchy, which granted Christians the right to practise their religion but did not restore any property to them.[215] The Edict of Milan included several clauses which stated that all confiscated churches would be returned, as well as other provisions for previously persecuted Christians. Scholars debate whether Constantine adopted his mother Helena's Christianity in his youth, or whether he adopted it gradually over the course of his life.[216]
...
Constantine possibly retained the title of pontifex maximus which emperors bore as heads of the ancient Roman religion until Gratian renounced the title.[217][218] According to Christian writers, Constantine was over 40 when he finally declared himself a Christian, making it clear that he owed his successes to the protection of the Christian High God alone.[219] Despite these declarations of being a Christian, he waited to be baptized on his deathbed, believing that the baptism would release him of any sins he committed in the course of carrying out his policies while emperor. He supported the Church financially, built basilicas, granted privileges to clergy (such as exemption from certain taxes), promoted Christians to high office, and returned property confiscated during the long period of persecution.[220] His most famous building projects include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and Old Saint Peter's Basilica. In constructing the Old Saint Peter's Basilica Constantine went to great lengths to erect the basilica on top of St. Peter's resting place, so much so that it even effected the design of the basilica and even undertook the challenge of erecting it on the hill where St. Peter rested, making its complete construction time over 30 years from the date Constantine ordered it to be built.
...
North African bishops struggled with Christian bishops who had been ordained by Donatus in opposition to Caecilian from 313 to 316. The African bishops could not come to terms and the Donatists asked Constantine to act as a judge in the dispute. Three regional Church councils and another trial before Constantine all ruled against Donatus and the Donatism movement in North Africa. In 317, Constantine issued an edict to confiscate Donatist church property and to send Donatist clergy into exile.[228] More significantly, in 325 he summoned the First Council of Nicaea, most known for its dealing with Arianism and for instituting the Nicene Creed. He enforced the Council's prohibition against celebrating the Lord's Supper on the day before the Jewish Passover, which marked a definite break of Christianity from the Judaic tradition. From then on, the solar Julian Calendar was given precedence over the lunisolar Hebrew Calendar among the Christian churches of the Roman Empire.[229]

The church was much better off without him and before him. IF he was ever converted is pretty dubious. He "converted" right before his died but whether God saw that as a political savey event for his own purposes or not is not clear. If it really up to God to forgive a man, not up to the man to choose when he would like to be forgiven so he can retain all the pleasures of this life and only when those pleasures are up, ask for forgiveness.

 

[Douggg]

16 And even the name of the city will be Hamonah. So they will cleanse the land.”’
17 “As for you, son of man, thus says the Lord God, ‘Speak to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble and come, gather from every side to My sacrifice which I am going to sacrifice for you, as a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, as though they were rams, lambs, goats and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan. 19 So you will eat fat until you are glutted, and drink blood until you are drunk, from My sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. 20 You will be glutted at My table with horses and charioteers, with mighty men and all the men of war,” declares the Lord God.

No Timeline AT ALL in that chapter. Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

The fundamental timeline of the end times is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. Revelation and the rest of the end time prophecies are relevant to that time line.

In Ezekiel 39, there is the feast on Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4, then 7 years of burning the weaponry from Gog's army. That 7 years is the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27 that conclude with Jesus's return.

Which Jesus return is in Ezekiel 39:17-29.

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27, the confirming of the covenant for 7 years is based on the 7 year cycle that Moses established in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Revelation is structured on the seven years of Daniel 9:27 - which you are claiming is from Jesus to Stephen. The seven years in Revelation is in Revelation 11 and Revelation 12.

Revelation the 42 months in Revelation 11:2 is ~ the second half of the seven years.
The 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 is the first half of the seven years.

Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days is the first half of the seven years.
Revelation 12:14, the time times half time is ~ the second half of the seven years.

 

[BobRyan]

The fundamental timeline of the end times is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. .

Daniel 9 does not have a seven year prophecy.

1. It has a 70 year prophecy in Daniel 9:1-7
2. It has a 490 year prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 -- but it has no "7 year" prophecy.
3. All Bible timelines without exception are contiguous. So no slicing-dicing them up and scattering them all over history.

That means you cannot claim to have the last 2 years of Jeremiahs 70 year timeline that Daniel 9 mentions - happen 'starting tomorrow'.

And it means you cannot have the last 2 years of the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 -starting tomorrow either.

All of that would be nonsense.

 

[DaDad]

1. It has a 70 year prophecy in Daniel 9:1-7
2. It has a 490 year prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 -- but it has no "7 year" prophecy.
3. All Bible timelines without exception are contiguous. So no slicing-dicing them up and scattering them all over history.

Ummmmmm, no, no, and yes.
Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Douggg]

2. It has a 490 year prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 -- but it has no "7 year" prophecy.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

That means you cannot claim to have the last 2 years of Jeremiahs 70 year timeline that Daniel 9 mentions - happen 'starting tomorrow'.

Jeremiah's 70 years is the time Israel would be in Babylon captivity. The 70 weeks (of years) is the time determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

The 70th week, the 7 years, will begin when the little horn person becomes the prince who shall come, and is perceived to be the messiah by the Jews, confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all of Israel leaders in the future.


It will be a big speech from the temple mount by the Antichrist. Part of Moses's requirement was that the speech be given from the place of God's choosing. I have asked the Jews (Judaism) where that place was and they said the temple mount.

3. All Bible timelines without exception are contiguous. So no slicing-dicing them up and scattering them all over history.

Ha! You believe the messiah came back at the first century. Yet the New Testament says the messiah comes sometime in the future. The 70 weeks are not complete.

SDA makes up its own rules, apparently. Condemns the RCC for allegedly changing the Sabbath - but itself (SDA) changes the days and months in Revelation to years - in its quest that the Papacy is the beast and/or the Antichrist. Really, Bob?

 

[BobRyan]

The fundamental timeline of the end times is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. .

Daniel 9 does not have a seven year prophecy.

1. It has a 70 year prophecy in Daniel 9:1-7
2. It has a 490 year prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 -- but it has no "7 year" prophecy.
3. All Bible timelines without exception are contiguous. So no slicing-dicing them up and scattering them all over history. This is irrefutable.

457B.C. - 27 A.D. -- 69 weeks (483 years)
(Christ is baptized, anointed for ministry as Messiah)
457B.C - 34 A.D. - 70 weeks... 490 years.
27A.D. Christ baptized, 31A.D. Crucified, 34 AD. Gospel goes to gentiles.


That means you cannot claim to have the last 2 years of Jeremiahs 70 year timeline that Daniel 9 mentions - happen 'starting tomorrow'.

And it means you cannot have the last 2 years of the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 -starting tomorrow either.

All of that would be nonsense.

Dan 9
In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years

70 week timeline (490 years)

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 And he (Christ) will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

"this is the new covenant in My blood "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you" Luke 22:20

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

========================
27 And he (Christ) will make a firm covenant with the many for one week,

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Yes. seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and one week... makes it 70 week - 490 year prophecy - using that consistent day-for-year model of apocalyptic texts.

==========================
and in the midst of the week he (Christ) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The Bible provides its own fulfillment statements in Christ - for the predictions made in the greatest Messianic prophecy in the Bible.

Jeremiah's 70 years is the time Israel would be in Babylon captivity.

A contiguous timeline that if "sliced-and-diced" and scattered all through history - would mean the Jews would STILL be in Babylon.

Just stating "the obvious" at that point.

The 70 weeks (of years) is the time determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

True.

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness

The 70 week - 490 year timeline began in 457 B.C. with the decree of Artaxerxes -- Ezra 6:14 says it was a 3 part decree and started with Cyrus -- ending with Artaxerxes.

536 B.C. -- Cyrus -- Ezra 1.
?? Darius - unknown date before Artaxerxes and after Cyrus. See Ezra 5.
457 B.C. Artaxerxes - Ezra 6:14 and Ezra 7:1-8

The 70th week, the 7 years, will begin when

When the Messiah appeared - 2000 years ago. "AFTER" the 69 weeks... which is the 70th -- "Then shall Messiah the prince"

25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off

Ha! You believe the messiah came back at the first century.

whaaat???

"Came back"???

Please be serious.