anyone else not like Sunday worship?

[Danthemailman]

1. New Covenant "Law of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 --- so was God being a legalist?
2. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - was Paul being a "legalist"?
3. "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - was John being a "legalist"?

See also 1 John 3:4 "sin IS the transgression of the Law" - and "these things I write that you sin not" 1 John 2:1

4. Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19, and Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, both agree that the TEN are included in the moral law of God and written on the heart under the New Covenant. Is it your POV that these are all "legalist" organizations?

God is not being a legalist, but you are. The new covenant is not about obeying the 10 commandments (with all the rules and regulations including the death penalty attached) under the law of Moses as a legalistic prescription for salvation.

The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us. (John 13:34) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) References for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain [in which blasphemy certainly qualifies] - Timothy 6:1; James 2:7.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

 

[Jamdoc]

I have no problem whatsoever with worshiping the Lord on Sunday at church. I have no problem with worshiping the Lord on Saturday at church either. What I have a problem with is people turning keeping the sabbath day into a 'legalistic prescription' for Christians under the new covenant.

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Which is why I explain my rationale for disliking Sunday as the day of worship is not about legalism but rather about not even appearing to obey a papal decree because right now the fact that protestant churches observe Sunday is seen by Catholics as justification that they are the true church and we submit to their authority. Baptists in particular don't even consider themselves to be protestant, and consider themselves as historically never even coming from Catholics but having existed along side Catholics (the "anabaptists", a derogatory term the Catholics used for people who practiced believer's baptism as shown in Acts 8 as "rebaptizers" and were persecuted). It could be any day BUT Sunday, in other words, and I'd be happier with it. Sabbath does have the strongest appeal though simply because that's a day that God set apart.

 

[BobRyan]

I have no problem whatsoever with worshiping the Lord on Sunday at church. I have no problem with worshiping the Lord on Saturday at church either. What I have a problem with is people turning keeping the sabbath day into a 'legalistic prescription'

1. New Covenant "Law of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 --- so was God being a legalist?
2. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - was Paul being a "legalist"?
3. "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - was John being a "legalist"?

See also 1 John 3:4 "sin IS the transgression of the Law" - and "these things I write that you sin not" 1 John 2:1

4. Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19, and Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, both agree that the TEN are included in the moral law of God and written on the heart under the New Covenant. Is it your POV that these are all "legalist" organizations?

Obedience to the Word of God is not called "Legalism" in the Bible. I like how Paul David Washer makes this point in his sermons.

God is not being a legalist,

I view that as a big step in the right direction.

"the NEW Covenant" is in the actual bible as it turns out. We can't just make up whatever we wish and call that the "New Covenant" that is in the Bible.

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

That covenant is repeated verbatim in the NT Heb 8:6-12 -- not a single change to it from OT to NT.

So then "exegesis" provides rules for context and interpretation that insists that we pay attention to context and who is writing - and what the writing would mean to contemporary readers of that author.

Jeremiah and his readers knew about the Ten at Sinai as being included in "the Law" of God that defines what sin is.

Paul said that this law included the Ten - that have as "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 the command that says "honor your father and mother."

Bible details so obvious that the Bible scholars in almost all major Christian denominations admit to them. So that includes --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

None of them downsize God's Ten Commandments "to just nine', James 2 says that to do discard one is to defy all of God's commandments. The denominations listed above consider themselves to be in compliance - not in direct opposition to God's Sabbath commandment.

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17

Col 2 does not mention the weekly Sabbath memorial of creation where the Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath had no animal sacrifice at all (just as Ex 20:8-11 has no animal sacrifice) . Col 2 only mentions the Lev 23 annual Sabbaths with animal sacrifice pointing forward to Christ.

No wonder that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth: "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

 

[RBPerry]

Anti-Catholic Protestants really, really, really need to learn about Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Assyrian Church of the East.

No, the Catholic Church is not innately evil, apostate, or a counter-Church. Any serious and thoughtful study of the above mentioned Churches can help to prove this.

I know there are some protestants that dislike the Catholic church, and that is a shame. Christian churches are about the people more than the theology. I have a neighbor that is Catholic, I can see him every morning on his back porch praying, he and his wife were two of the most wonderful people I have ever met. We need to learn to skip the titles and look at one another as brothers and sisters in Christ, and nothing more.
I'm a non denominational protestant that want's to love all people and especially fellow Christians no matter what tag they put on themselves. I even love Edward Casey writings and that makes me a heretic in some people eyes.

 

[prodromos]

Which is why I explain my rationale for disliking Sunday as the day of worship is not about legalism but rather about not even appearing to obey a papal decree because right now the fact that protestant churches observe Sunday is seen by Catholics as justification that they are the true church and we submit to their authority.

The entire Church was worshipping on Sunday long before. It isn't something peculiar to Catholicism, it is ancient Christianity.

 

[Danthemailman]

1. New Covenant "Law of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 --- so was God being a legalist?
2. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - was Paul being a "legalist"?
3. "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - was John being a "legalist"?

See also 1 John 3:4 "sin IS the transgression of the Law" - and "these things I write that you sin not" 1 John 2:1

4. Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19, and Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19, both agree that the TEN are included in the moral law of God and written on the heart under the New Covenant. Is it your POV that these are all "legalist" organizations?

Obedience to the Word of God is not called "Legalism" in the Bible. I like how Paul David Washer makes this point in his sermons.

I view that as a big step in the right direction.

"the NEW Covenant" is in the actual bible as it turns out. We can't just make up whatever we wish and call that the "New Covenant" that is in the Bible.

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

That covenant is repeated verbatim in the NT Heb 8:6-12 -- not a single change to it from OT to NT.

So then "exegesis" provides rules for context and interpretation that insists that we pay attention to context and who is writing - and what the writing would mean to contemporary readers of that author.

Jeremiah and his readers knew about the Ten at Sinai as being included in "the Law" of God that defines what sin is.

Paul said that this law included the Ten - that have as "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 the command that says "honor your father and mother."

Bible details so obvious that the Bible scholars in almost all major Christian denominations admit to them. So that includes --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

None of them downsize God's Ten Commandments "to just nine', James 2 says that to do discard one is to defy all of God's commandments. The denominations listed above consider themselves to be in compliance - not in direct opposition to God's Sabbath commandment.

Col 2 does not mention the weekly Sabbath memorial of creation where the Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath had no animal sacrifice at all (just as Ex 20:8-11 has no animal sacrifice) . Col 2 only mentions the Lev 23 annual Sabbaths with animal sacrifice pointing forward to Christ.

No wonder that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth: "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Nice display of eisegesis and very cunning, but you are not fooling me. It looks like you and I will never come to an agreement.

 

[BobRyan]

Nice display of eisegesis .

1. Simply quoting the text as I have done is not eisegesis
2. You did not respond to the actual point about exegeting the meaning of the "term" Law for Jeremiah and his readers. By not addressing it at all the case you make is less than compelling.

3. Posing nothing but a few pejorative statements is not a compelling form of exegesis.

 

[BobRyan]

The entire Church was worshipping on Sunday long before. It isn't something peculiar to Catholicism, it is ancient Christianity.

It would be more interesting if it went all the way back to the first century and NT authors considered it significant enough to mention weekly week-day-1 services as they did with "every Sabbath" Gospel services in Acts 18:4.

 

[Danthemailman]

1. Simply quoting the text as I have done is not eisegesis
2. You did not respond to the actual point about exegeting the meaning of the "term" Law for Jeremiah and his readers. By not addressing it at all the case you make is less than compelling.

3. Posing nothing but a few pejorative statements is not a compelling form of exegesis.

Your explanations based on your misinterpretation of those passages of scripture is eisegesis. I have already previously refuted your misinterpretation of multiple passages of scripture in various posts, including Isaiah 66:23, but unfortunately, you are unable to see anything beyond your SDA church indoctrination.

 

[BobRyan]

Your explanations based on your misinterpretation of those passages of scripture is eisegesis. .

I did not "misinterpret" anything. The fact that some Bible text is inconvenient for someone opposing my POV does not make my quote of that text - "misinterpretation".

Bible details matter.

, but unfortunately, you are unable to see anything beyond your SDA church indoctrination.

more pejoratives .. don't add up to Bible support for a given POV

 

[prodromos]

It would be more interesting if it went all the way back to the first century and NT authors considered it significant enough to mention weekly week-day-1 services as they did with "every Sabbath" Gospel services in Acts 18:4.

There is a lot that was taught first hand that is not recorded in the Gospels or Epistles. The liturgical structure of worship is just one example. A big portion of Paul's Epistles was correcting errors that had been introduced. He didn't need to waste ink on what they had right.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
It would be more interesting if it went all the way back to the first century and NT authors considered it significant enough to mention weekly week-day-1 services as they did with "every Sabbath" Gospel services in Acts 18:4.

There is a lot that was taught first hand that is not recorded in the Gospels or Epistles.

No doubt - but any new doctrine introduced should have been taught in the NT letters given that these letters were being sent everywhere, in many more places than the 12 could actually have gone personally and out to the entire world.

So it is instructive what they chose to include -- for example "every Sabbath" services with gospel preaching to both gentiles and Jews in Acts 18:4. Acts is not so much an "error correcting" text as a historic account of what they were actually doing.

 

[RBPerry]

There is a lot that was taught first hand that is not recorded in the Gospels or Epistles. The liturgical structure of worship is just one example. A big portion of Paul's Epistles was correcting errors that had been introduced. He didn't need to waste ink on what they had right.

That is so true, what has troubled me is why Rome won't release all the original writings they have. The apocrypha's have some amazing insights in them, would love to see the rest of them.

 

[concretecamper]

anyone else not like Sunday worship?

Satan

 

[prodromos]

anyone else not like Sunday worship?

Satan

Interesting that Islam distances itself from both Jewish and Christian days of worship by holding their gatherings on Friday.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Interesting that Islam distances itself from both Jewish and Christian days of worship by holding their gatherings on Friday.

It is also interesting that the controversy over the day of worship initiated by Mrs. White is against Christendom and not Islam.