Any one care to take a swing at this?

[Washington]

I saw the same on AIG and figured it was quote mined. It seems a bit too short to be a debate and there isn't any science to be found. I was hoping for more, but maybe that's all it amounted to.

I have my suspicions as well. It seems far to short for something Eugenie Scott would have bothered going out of her way for.

 

[Braunwyn]

I have my suspicions as well. It seems far to short for something Eugenie Scott would have bothered going out of her way for.

I bet if one of us was motivated enough, we'd find the CNN Scott debate with another debater, along with the possible rantings from the penut gallery (Isle, et al or whatever his name is).

 

[Washington]

HERE'S the transcript from CNN. It's about 2/3 down the page.

 

[Nooj]

Why did humanity survive for 250,000 years before the bible was written?

Creationists believe humanity is only a handful of thousands of years old.

 

[Braunwyn]

HERE'S the transcript from CNN. It's about 2/3 down the page.

Thanks for taking the time, Washington.

I can't deny that I loved "The move to put religion in the science lab when we come back" lol...but it didn't vary from the AIG transcript.

 

[mpok1519]

he's saying that even though the Bible is a totally screwed up equation that doesnt make a lick of sense, you have to put on crazy xray goggles you get from the back of the comic book for ninteynine cereal boxtops to read the equation correctly.

i think...

 

[David Brider]

"The Bible is the Word of God because it says it is...

Oh well, he loses points for reading comprehension, 'cos the Bible never says anything of the kind...

David.

 

[Zebra1552]

The Bible got its moral codes from various earlier pagan and abrahamic traditions so to chalk morals up to the Bible alone is rather silly and short sighted.

Um, nice claim. Just like the article you're ripping on it lacks backing.

 

[Sammy615]

by Dr. Jason Lisle, AiG–U.S.May 15, 2009

​

"The Bible is the Word of God because it says it is and any alternative leads to absurdity.

If the Bible were not the Word of God, we would have no foundation for all the things we take for granted, such as laws of logic, uniformity of nature, and morality. The law of non-contradiction, for example, is based on the self-consistent nature of the biblical God (2 Timothy 2:13).

. . . it is the Bible that tells us that God will uphold the future as He has the past (Genesis 8:22). All science depends upon such uniformity. "

source

​

So if I read this correctly, if the Bible, a book, was not the word of god but simply a concocted mythology, we would have no logic (A + B = C). Nature would not have any uniformity(?) what so ever; and everyone would be morally bankrupt. Doesn't sound good no matter how you slice it.

Actually, logic serves to debunk the Bible, I'm not quite sure how one could argue we gain logical capabilities by reading a book in which burning bushes speak to people, and the world has twice been populated by a single family.
I have no idea what the point in the middle is about, to be frank.
And actually, humans have morals because if we didn't, our species would not survive. Morality is the finest example of evolution yet. If humans did not care about rape or murder etc, there would be constant chaos, people would be killing themselves and others left and right, and we'd all be dead by friday.

 

[Garyzenuf]

he's saying that even though the Bible is a totally screwed up equation that doesnt make a lick of sense, you have to put on crazy xray goggles you get from the back of the comic book for ninteynine cereal boxtops to read the equation correctly.

i think...

Probably explains why I don't get it then, (I don't eat cereal).

*

 

[Zebra1552]

Actually, logic serves to debunk the Bible, I'm not quite sure how one could argue we gain logical capabilities by reading a book in which burning bushes speak to people, and the world has twice been populated by a single family.
I have no idea what the point in the middle is about, to be frank.
And actually, humans have morals because if we didn't, our species would not survive. Morality is the finest example of evolution yet. If humans did not care about rape or murder etc, there would be constant chaos, people would be killing themselves and others left and right, and we'd all be dead by friday.

Does ANYONE back their claims or assumptions around here?

 

[Toclafane]

So what happened to all those years before the bible was written ?

 

[sidhe]

Um, nice claim. Just like the article you're ripping on it lacks backing.

Check out Hammurabi's code sometime, or do research on Canaanite religion. Judaic morality was either borrowed from or a reaction to neighboring societies. It was the concept of monotheism and being "set apart" that made them distinct, not the moral code.

Even the famous "Love your neighbor as yourself" of the NT was taken from the OT, not a wild new revelation.

 

[Sammy615]

Does ANYONE back their claims or assumptions around here?

I was unaware that statement needed backing, seeing as it's pretty much common sense...

Which part isn't?

 

[BlackSabb]

I can't fathom that logic. People are a product of their times, not the Bible. People had moral codes before the Bible, pagan tribes had moral codes. The Bible got its moral codes from various earlier pagan and abrahamic traditions so to chalk morals up to the Bible alone is rather silly and short sighted.

Why did humanity survive for 250,000 years before the bible was written?

The funny thing about these quotes is that the Bible actually addresses this very same question. You can make what you will of it, but I will just inform you of it. I don't know if anyone else has brought it up (haven't read the rest of the thread).

What the Bible says is that God has put his moral code in our hearts and conscience, which is demonstrated by the fact that people who have never heard of God obey morality. The Bible says that as people who have not heard of God obey his precepts, does not it show that the creator has put his laws and statutes in the heart of man?

As I say, make of it what you will. But it is interesting I think. And more importantly, it does offer an explanation of why many people are able to be moral without God or the Bible, even before Christianity.

It is very similar in the way the Bible says that every human being is capable of coming to the knowledge of God and that no human being is without excuse. As everybody can see all creation and the universe and can appreciate that a creator was responsible, so that no person can say "show me evidence of God". The Bible says that everyone can see the moon, stars etc so that no one is without excuse.

In the same way, everyone apparently has been given God's universal laws and morality, even pre Christian tribal people. So that those who for eg, kill unjustly are going against their conscience, which has been seared with God's laws.

 

[b&wpac4]

As I say, make of it what you will. But it is interesting I think. And more importantly, it does offer an explanation of why many people are able to be moral without God or the Bible, even before Christianity.

I always found this point of view weird. You can't see how a culture could organically realize that murder is bad, or theft is bad without these laws being written to their hearts?

What do we consider morality? All God's laws are not written in the heart. Which ones got written?

Also, 2/3 of the Bible was written "before Christianity".

 

[BlackSabb]

I always found this point of view weird. You can't see how a culture could organically realize that murder is bad, or theft is bad without these laws being written to their hearts?

What do we consider morality? All God's laws are not written in the heart. Which ones got written?

Also, 2/3 of the Bible was written "before Christianity".

Well, to tell you the honest truth, I can't see how all humanity can realise that say murder or stealing or rape is wrong if:

1. Those precepts don't come from a universal law giver and
2. There is some way that those precepts can be applied to everyone.


To me it makes perfect sense. How could all human beings in history be judged before God for crimes if they didn't hear of God or read the Bible? The very fact that the vast majority (I'm talking about 99.9999999999&#37 of people have such a thing as a "conscience" tells me that some form of universal morality is built into us all. It does not have to be learnt.

A little like how migrating birds aren't taught to fly across different continents. It's hardwired into them. I believe our consciences are God's hardwiring of his universal laws into all of us. So that no man has excuse for breaking God's laws-regardless of whether they've heard of God or not or read the Bible or not.

How would you explain the universal conscience of man if you don't believe it is God's imprint of his basic laws to all humans?

 

[Andreusz]

As everybody can see all creation and the universe and can appreciate that a creator was responsible,

I can't.

so that no person can say "show me evidence of God". The Bible says that everyone can see the moon, stars etc so that no one is without excuse.

.

I can say that. Material reality in no way presupposes the existence of a creator. Anyone who says it does is arguing from false premises.

 

[b&wpac4]

How would you explain the universal conscience of man if you don't believe it is God's imprint of his basic laws to all humans?

Universal conscience? Different societies have had different ideas about what was right and wrong.

Some societies thought that gods required human sacrifices, and would kill young people to please these gods. Some societies thought that neighboring people could be killed without a second though.

Even in Europe during the middle ages, the surfs were thought of as nothing much. If a bunch of them died in service to a wealthy noble, he didn't care, except maybe that it cut into his money a bit.

Where do you find this universal conscience?

I also don't believe in some vast "Final Judgment", so I can't answer your other question.

 

[Andreusz]

To me it makes perfect sense. How could all human beings in history be judged before God for crimes if they didn't hear of God or read the Bible? The very fact that the vast majority (I'm talking about 99.9999999999%) of people have such a thing as a "conscience" tells me that some form of universal morality is built into us all. It does not have to be learnt.

A little like how migrating birds aren't taught to fly across different continents. It's hardwired into them.

By natural selection. Similarly, I would say, our consciences (if it is true that everyone does have a conscience.) Our consciences are not evidence for the existence of God, whatever CS Lewis might claim.