Any clues to when Jesus will return?

[Curious Atheist]

There seems to be a lot of talk about the second coming of Christ. It is described in different ways, like the end of the world and day of judgement but I was just wondering if there is any clues to when this could be?

It just seems that people have been 100% convinced the return would happen on certain times in history, but clearly they were wrong. I know it is usually minority groups like the most recent in America where thousands sold their houses etc. But 2012 seems to quite a popular theory, is there any generally well accepted time perioud? Some seem to suggest it will happen in their lifetimes, others before humanity has completely destroyed the planet etc which could be anytime.

So, does the Bible prophecise a particular time frame? What is the significance of 2012 in religious circles?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Ask Harold Camping. Oh wait...

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

I'm not sure where it's from, but Jesus himself said he didn't know when he'd be coming back (which is odd considering he was God - how can God hide knowledge from himself?). He said "no one knows the day or the hour". Apparently only the Father knows.

Read Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 (I think).

 

[Curious Atheist]

Ask Harold Camping. Oh wait...

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

I'm not sure where it's from, but Jesus himself said he didn't know when he'd be coming back (which is odd considering he was God - how can God hide knowledge from himself?). He said "no one knows the day or the hour". Apparently only the Father knows.

Read Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 (I think).

I recognise the guy in your avatar from the ancient alien series. I have a friend who believes it all, he isn't the brightest chap unfortunately but I don't hold it against him. But the relevance is that he is pretty much convinced something will happen in 2012 too, not the end of the world but he said ancient somalians (or some ancient community) predicted life on Earth would change forever. He even has a specific day for it, but I can't remember when I think it is Oct 17th...probably not though. The poor guy thinks our alien creators are coming back then to eat us or not, he doesn't know what but he is sure 'something' big will happen.

 

[abysmul]

Know one but the Father knows. The point is that it could happen at any second, and to be ready.

 

[Curious Atheist]

Know one but the Father knows. The point is that it could happen at any second, and to be ready.

So it is a surprise? Bit of a nasty one from a loving God in my opinion. Why would he give a heads up 2,000 years ago if it might not happen for a billion years, or after all life is dead anyway? He must have given some kind of clue or so many people wouldn't keep coming up with new dates.

There was a story (on QI if you have seen it) about an older judgement day fear, with a man who jumped off a barn thinking God would catch him before he hit the ground. Guess what?!
I think that particular time cause yet another divide in the Christian church, faith is a dangerous thing.

 

[abysmul]

So it is a surprise? Bit of a nasty one from a loving God in my opinion. Why would he give a heads up 2,000 years ago if it might not happen for a billion years, or after all life is dead anyway? He must have given some kind of clue or so many people wouldn't keep coming up with new dates.

There was a story (on QI if you have seen it) about an older judgement day fear, with a man who jumped off a barn thinking God would catch him before he hit the ground. Guess what?!
I think that particular time cause yet another divide in the Christian church, faith is a dangerous thing.

It's a loving God that wants us to choose to have a relationship with Him, as opposed to a supreme being that doesn't gift free will and forces his creation to bow down in forced worship. I view the "no one knows the time" as a gentle way of encouraging us to not put off seeking this relationship with our Creator.

God is great.

 

[Hakan101]

So it is a surprise? Bit of a nasty one from a loving God in my opinion. Why would he give a heads up 2,000 years ago if it might not happen for a billion years, or after all life is dead anyway? He must have given some kind of clue or so many people wouldn't keep coming up with new dates.

People who come up with new dates are either ignorant of the Scripture that says we can't know the hour, or they are fools. Jesus did tell us of signs that the time is near, but he also said things will be "business as usual" when it comes.

If we knew exactly when it was coming, many people would be lazy in the faith until the time was getting close.

There was a story (on QI if you have seen it) about an older judgement day fear, with a man who jumped off a barn thinking God would catch him before he hit the ground. Guess what?!
I think that particular time cause yet another divide in the Christian church, faith is a dangerous thing.

One man does something completely irrational and completely ungrounded in Scripture, and that is grounds for claiming faith as a dangerous thing?

 

[Curious Atheist]

It's a loving God that wants us to choose to have a relationship with Him, as opposed to a supreme being that doesn't gift free will and forces his creation to bow down in forced worship. I view the "no one knows the time" as a gentle way of encouraging us to not put off seeking this relationship with our Creator.

God is great.

I think we disagree on a the definition of gentle encouragement. I see being murdered at any moment and sent to hell as a rather large incentive to worship God. He is just so inconveniently well hidden, nothing I could ever do would allow me to rationalise a personal God with the 'evidence' he has provided. But maybe that is just the way God made me? But maybe I will be punished for that, I am sure I deserve it.
For example there are many more eye witness accounts for mermaids than for Jesus. In fact Mermaids have cropped up all over the world throughout history, with loads of written descriptions/drawings all uncannily similar.

 

[Curious Atheist]

People who come up with new dates are either ignorant of the Scripture that says we can't know the hour, or they are fools. Jesus did tell us of signs that the time is near, but he also said things will be "business as usual" when it comes.

Did he give any clues to what these signs might be?

If we knew exactly when it was coming, many people would be lazy in the faith until the time was getting close.

I don't see why they would, if you knew it would happen in 1000 years after you were already dead it makes no difference. But either way surely you would still be a good person anyway? Also don't Christians claim they worship God out of love, not for the afterlife rewards or fear? That would contradict your statement. If they would be lazy, don't they deserve hell?

One man does something completely irrational and completely ungrounded in Scripture, and that is grounds for claiming faith as a dangerous thing?

That is one example of a single relevant case. What about the thousands who sold their houses and ruined their lives thinking the world would end? Or the outright disregard for the Earth thinking it is only temporary, expressed by many Christians who think the world is to be dominated. Or the countless millions who go to war for faith? Do I need to give more examples?

 

[abysmul]

I think we disagree on a the definition of gentle encouragement. I see being murdered at any moment and sent to hell as a rather large incentive to worship God. He is just so inconveniently well hidden, nothing I could ever do would allow me to rationalise a personal God with the 'evidence' he has provided. But maybe that is just the way God made me? But maybe I will be punished for that, I am sure I deserve it.
For example there are many more eye witness accounts for mermaids than for Jesus. In fact Mermaids have cropped up all over the world throughout history, with loads of written descriptions/drawings all uncannily similar.

That doesn't sound "curious" (Curious Atheist), that sounds like your mind is set.

If you are curious, you might want to read these very forums more, and realize there are many Christians that don't subscribe to a concept of an eternal Hell fire damnation.

I wish you luck, and that keep your mind and heart open.

 

[Hakan101]

Did he give any clues to what these signs might be?

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is a great place to look.

Matthew 24 NIV - The Destruction of the Temple and Signs - Bible Gateway

I don't see why they would, if you knew it would happen in 1000 years after you were already dead it makes no difference. But either way surely you would still be a good person anyway? Also don't Christians claim they worship God out of love, not for the afterlife rewards or fear? That would contradict your statement. If they would be lazy, don't they deserve hell?

Even without knowing the time, there will be people who are lazy and unprepared. Jesus compared the end of the age coming as "a thief in the night." You don't know when a thief might break into your house, but if you are prepared you will be ready for whenever he comes.

That is one example of a single relevant case. What about the thousands who sold their houses and ruined their lives thinking the world would end? Or the outright disregard for the Earth thinking it is only temporary, expressed by many Christians who think the world is to be dominated. Or the countless millions who go to war for faith? Do I need to give more examples?

Again, the people who responded to Harold Camping's "prediction" acted in a way that is completely ungrounded in Scripture. If any of these people did some independent study, they would not be in their predicaments. They were misled by a single man, and it could have been avoided so easily.

Who are the countless millions who go to war for faith? Are talking about the Muslim jihad? Please, be more specific.

 

[Curious Atheist]

'with the evidence available' is the main thing you should have taken from what I said. I would love to believe in the afterlife, a loving God and that bad people don't get away with it. I trully would love to believe it, but I can't based on faith alone. I can't profess to know something when the only honest answer is 'I don't know' or 'no-one could ever know' such as what happens after death. I don't believe the Bible could possibly have been inspired by the creator of the universe, as for a start it states the world was created in 7 days which just isn't true. You can say it is metaphor, now. But it was clearly written to be taken literally, based on what people thought at the time which wasn't scientific or rational. So with that one point, I don't think God would be so misleading with what he wrote and it shows he isn't perfect. I don't believe God would be vain, or be sexist or create such a variety of 'soulless' life just for humans to dominate. Nor do I believe he would be so petty as to disgard those who are sceptical of his existence.

 

[Curious Atheist]

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is a great place to look.

Matthew 24 NIV - The Destruction of the Temple and Signs - Bible Gateway

I read everything you linked but the only references to a prediction was this

"Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains."

Also that there will be many false prophets. The rest just seems to describe what will happen. But the above could be relevant at any point in human history, there are always earthquakes and we have raged war since the beginning. So would the sign be any different? How would it be distinguished from a natural event like plate tectonics or nuclear war?

Again, the people who responded to Harold Camping's "prediction" acted in a way that is completely ungrounded in Scripture. If any of these people did some independent study, they would not be in their predicaments. They were misled by a single man, and it could have been avoided so easily.

In what way was it ungrounded? Are there more signs that haven't happened yet apart from war and earthquakes which happen all the time?

Who are the countless millions who go to war for faith? Are talking about the Muslim jihad? Please, be more specific.

The Christian crusades is a good example. You surely must be aware of the many evils performed in God's name? It even states in scripture God commanding the genocide and rape of entire cities

 

[Merlinius]

There seems to be a lot of talk about the second coming of Christ. It is described in different ways, like the end of the world and day of judgement but I was just wondering if there is any clues to when this could be?

It just seems that people have been 100% convinced the return would happen on certain times in history, but clearly they were wrong. I know it is usually minority groups like the most recent in America where thousands sold their houses etc. But 2012 seems to quite a popular theory, is there any generally well accepted time perioud? Some seem to suggest it will happen in their lifetimes, others before humanity has completely destroyed the planet etc which could be anytime.

So, does the Bible prophecise a particular time frame? What is the significance of 2012 in religious circles?

He left again??

(Mat 28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[ViaCrucis]

There seems to be a lot of talk about the second coming of Christ. It is described in different ways, like the end of the world and day of judgement but I was just wondering if there is any clues to when this could be?

It just seems that people have been 100% convinced the return would happen on certain times in history, but clearly they were wrong. I know it is usually minority groups like the most recent in America where thousands sold their houses etc. But 2012 seems to quite a popular theory, is there any generally well accepted time perioud? Some seem to suggest it will happen in their lifetimes, others before humanity has completely destroyed the planet etc which could be anytime.

So, does the Bible prophecise a particular time frame? What is the significance of 2012 in religious circles?

Jesus said no one knows except God the Father. Thus time tables and predictions and the lot of it are a lot of worthless effort.

2012 has no significance in Christianity. It's only "significant" right now because the Mayan long count calendar doesn't continue past December 21, 2012. Various people are under the false impression this means the Mayans believed this would be the destruction of the world.

The return of Christ could be tomorrow, or it could be ten thousand years from tomorrow. It's not really our place to worry, but to rather to do His will: feed the hungry, help the poor, preach the Gospel, love our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[elopez]

There seems to be a lot of talk about the second coming of Christ. It is described in different ways, like the end of the world and day of judgement but I was just wondering if there is any clues to when this could be?

No one knows when Christ returns. That is what the Bible says. No clues, no hints, just ignorance of the matter.

It just seems that people have been 100% convinced the return would happen on certain times in history, but clearly they were wrong. I know it is usually minority groups like the most recent in America where thousands sold their houses etc. But 2012 seems to quite a popular theory, is there any generally well accepted time perioud? Some seem to suggest it will happen in their lifetimes, others before humanity has completely destroyed the planet etc which could be anytime.

Yes those people are wrong because either they are lying for some type of personal gain or because of some misguided calculation they think is sound. We just don't know when Christ will return so believing it will happen in one's lifetime or before we destroy the planet is irrelevant. We should be living in faith as Christ will return tomorrow.

So, does the Bible prophecise a particular time frame? What is the significance of 2012 in religious circles?

No. I suspect some religions regard 2012? I am not sure. To me it's a bunch of hog wash and not just because I believe Christ's return indicates the end times but also on account of the evidence that says otherwise.

 

[Merlinius]

Just get on your knees and ask for Jesus to Come. He will. Totally

(Luk 11:13) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[drich0150]

My two cents:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7603333/#post58861819

 

[pinkputter]

Why do atheists always think they know better than God?

 

[Merlinius]

Why do atheists always think they know better than God?

I don't think they "think they know better than God"... otherwise they wouldn't be atheists lol.

But they do think they are wiser than His Children, because they don't know Him OR us.

So they might be "wiser" in their own conceits for a little bit of time. Then they are dead. So we let them have their small temporary self importance and stew in their own glory because it makes them feel good and they have nothing else. It will be over soon for them. But we shall remain forever!

(Luk 16:8) And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.