Antichrist, Beast, False Prophet

[Hal A Peno]

cgdgbd

 

[victorinus]

Babylon can't be the lion with Eagles wings becaue it rose some 50 years before Daniel prophesied it,

babylon is a beast -
they destroyed the temple -
that makes them a beast

 

[Douggg]

It's impossible for ancient Babylon to be the lion, and impossible for Rome to be the fourth 'feared and dreaded' beast. Babylon can't be the lion with Eagles wings becaue it rose some 50 years before Daniel prophesied it, and that alone debunks Daniel as a prophet and the bible as well, but RT doesn't care.

Daniel is not a prophet? Who is speaking in Matthew 24:15?

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

and the bible as well?

 

[Douggg]

It's impossible for ancient Babylon to be the lion, and impossible for Rome to be the fourth 'feared and dreaded' beast. Babylon can't be the lion with Eagles wings becaue it rose some 50 years before Daniel prophesied it, and that alone debunks Daniel as a prophet and the bible as well, but RT doesn't care.

The four beasts correspond to the four metals of the statue image of Daniel 2. Nebuchadnezzar was said to be the head of gold in the text, representing the Babylonian kingdom. Then the medes/persians. Then the greek empire. Then the roman empire. And the roman empire the end times version of it, the feet of iron and clay.

 

[victorinus]

And the roman empire the end times version of it,

really?

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

The four beasts correspond to the four metals of the statue image of Daniel 2. Nebuchadnezzar was said to be the head of gold in the text, representing the Babylonian kingdom. Then the medes/persians. Then the greek empire. Then the roman empire. And the roman empire the end times version of it, the feet of iron and clay.

No disagreement.

Simply a question

IF there are only 4 beasts in Daniel

Babylon
Medes/Persia
Greece
Rome

And the 4th Beast was to rule until the ancient of days came

Daniel 7 (KJV)
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Then would not Rome still be the 4th Beast even in this day and age?

 

[victorinus]

Then would not Rome still be the 4th Beast even in this day and age?

rome is not the 4th beast

 

[Hal A Peno]

vfhb

 

[Hal A Peno]

ghgh

 

[victorinus]

These four beast are all end-time beast.

really?

 

[Hal A Peno]

xcv

 

[Hal A Peno]

stg

 

[Douggg]

The typical Protestant interpretation of Daniel 7 is that the Lion is ancient Babylon. BUT. Kyle Williams a professed Atheist discovered that Babylon had risen about 50 years BEFORE Daniel prophesied the lion rising. That interpretation makes Daniel a false prophet. So the interpretation of the Lion being ancient Babylon is false.

No what it does, is make Kyle Williams someone who doesn't understand the passages.

Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 go hand in hand - because they both end the same way with the Kingdom of God brought down here to earth to have dominion over all kingdoms.

Daniel's vision in Daniel 7 also parallels the 70 weeks (of years) determined upon Israel and Jerusalem, in Daniel 9 - because that chapter ends the same way as well.

The Jews were already in the Babylonian captivity. So the empires from the time Daniel was told by the angel gabriel about the 70 weeks were the lion, the bear, the leopard, the un-named beast. Which the Roman Empire was in power at the time Jesus was crucified.

Then the counting of the 70 weeks stops - until the end times, when that last week, the 70th week begins with confirmation of the covenant. At that time, almost here, the Roman Empire is the EU, some parts weak, some parts strong. Easy to see to anyone keeping up with the EU.

 

[Douggg]

That sequence of kingdoms is easily debunked.
1. The Medo-Persian empire cannot be the inferior kingdom since the word 'inferior' is the word ARA or 'land' coupled with the adverb 'below' meaning LESS LAND. The Medo-Persian empire was 3 times the size of Babylon. The 'inferior kingdom' is the Medes.

Daniel, Isaiah's, and Jeremiah's prophecies ascribe the conquest and destruction of Babylon to the Medes.

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.
ALSO...

That makes the sequence like this....
Babylon = Head of Gold
Mede's = Arms of silver
Persian' s = Thighs of brass
Greeks = Legs of iron.

The toes mingled with iron and clay represents the two major sects of Islam, Sunni and Shia, the two horned beast.

The word mixed used to describe the toes mingled with iron and clay is the Aramaic word "arab." It means mixed and it denotes an Arabian or Arabia. (Gesenius) I would like to know how people associate this word with ROME, ITALY.

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

The Medes-Persians did NOT defeat the Babylonian kingdom while Nebuchanezzar was king - because their kingdom was inferior to his.

speaking to Nebuchadnezzar.
Daniel 2:38............Thou art this head of gold.

 

[Hal A Peno]

fxdbhfbh

 

[Hal A Peno]

zxdfy

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

If you are going to label Rome the 'feared and dreaded' beast of Daniel 7, then you and the others have to show us how and where Rome is implied. This...

Babylon
Medes/Persia
Greece
Rome
...is NOT the sequence of kingdoms in Daniel 2 or 7.

I am not labeling Rome of anything.

It is documented human History that;

the 1st World Superpower Babylon fell to the
2nd World Superpower Medes and Persians,
whom fell to the 3rd World Superpower Greeks,
whom fell to the 4th Greatest World Superpower Romans


Daniel 2
ONLY speaks of FOUR worldly Kingdoms, or

Daniel 7
speaks of ONLY FOUR worldly Kingdoms
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.


Never really thought about it that way, but it is a pretty interesting coincidence.

Has anybody ever checked that out?



There is ever a bigger coincidence than that.

I just now went to
Daniel 8
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.


The dictionary says
PROPHECY

• : a statement that something will happen in the future
  
  
• : the power or ability to know what will happen in the future

1. : something foretold : prediction
   
   
2. : the ability to predict what will happen in the future

If Prophecy REALLY IS HISTORY WRITTEN BEFORE IT HAPPENED,

Maybe we can compare documented Human History to prophecy to see where we are right now.
Maybe even figure out who this "little Horn" is!

Has anybody ever tried that?

 

[Douggg]

No disagreement.

Simply a question

IF there are only 4 beasts in Daniel

Babylon
Medes/Persia
Greece
Rome

And the 4th Beast was to rule until the ancient of days came

Daniel 7 (KJV)
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Then would not Rome still be the 4th Beast even in this day and age?

Rome would the 4th beast, yes, at the present time. The issue though is that it is parts weak, parts strong. Which is the EU, some parts weak, some parts strong. The EU, the government of it, is not in its final form yet of those ten kings, ten leaders.

That is the very next step to come in bible prophecy (excluding the rapture should it take place - I am anytime rapture view, but I don't want to turn the thread into an argument about the rapture, okay?

Anyway, regarding the EU, it started out at the EEC, then became the EC, then became the EU. The ten leader form of government, I don't think means only ten nations, but ten regions of the EU - but we'll see.

Then when those ten kings are in place and the little horn becoming king over them - in Daniel 8:23, it says when the transgressors come to a full, which to me indicates the final form of the EU, that person the little horn, it says, "stands up". Which is a saying for prepares to go to war - like many animals stand on their hind legs right before they charge into each other.

What war? Well somehow, if the little person is the prince who shall come, in Daniel 9, from the Roman empire people, confirms the covenant - we have to bridge across the waters of the unknown because we have firm prophecies on both river banks so to speak.

That bridge is speculation (maybe that is poor choice of words on my part), not directly said in prophecy, but we have firm banks on both sides of the waters. We know he stands up. We know that he heads into the middle east toward Israel with a strong army from the location of one of the former breakup kingdoms. Daniel 8:9

What we also have is Ezekiel 39, following the Gog/Magog war the seven years - which are the same seven years in Daniel 9:27. I can show, but too much for this post.

So here is the bridge - the ten kings come to power, the little horn over them, leader of the EU. Gog/Magog appears on the horizon. As a deterrent he mobilizes his EU army in Greece. Gog/Magog invades anyway. God supernaturally destroys them. In the aftermath, the little horn moves his army into the middle east, securing all of the oil for the Europeans.

The Jews, following Gog/Magog, thinking they are on the doorstep of the messianic age - think that the little horn is their messiah, because he is a Jew and has acted to defend Israel by his intentions. Prophecy wise, he is the prince who shall come.

The person's ego is huge, and most likely will think that he is their messiah as well. Plays the part and confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years - a requirement that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel on a 7 year basis.

Back to the EU, in it's original form was founded by the treaties of Rome.
60 years of the Rome Treaties - European Union - European Commission

uh... I forgot your question

 

[Douggg]

So you are in denial of...

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Isaiah 13:17
"Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ie.(Babylon)

Jeremiah 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.
ALSO...

They did not defeat the Babylonians when Nebuchadnezzar was king because their kingdom was inferior to his (Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian kingdom).

The Medes/Persian defeated Belshazzar's Babylonian kingdom. Belshazzar was Nebuchanezzar's son.

Daniel 5:25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

30 In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

31 And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Rome would the 4th beast, yes, at the present time. The issue though is that it is parts weak, parts strong. Which is the EU, some parts weak, some parts strong. The EU, the government of it, is not in its final form yet of those ten kings, ten leaders.

That is the very next step to come in bible prophecy (excluding the rapture should it take place - I am anytime rapture view, but I don't want to turn the thread into an argument about the rapture, okay?

Anyway, regarding the EU, it started out at the EEC, then became the EC, then became the EU. The ten leader form of government, I don't think means only ten nations, but ten regions of the EU - but we'll see.

Then when those ten kings are in place and the little horn becoming king over them - in Daniel 8:23, it says when the transgressors come to a full, which to me indicates the final form of the EU, that person the little horn, it says, "stands up". Which is a saying for prepares to go to war - like many animals stand on their hind legs right before they charge into each other.

What war? Well somehow, if the little person is the prince who shall come, in Daniel 9, from the Roman empire people, confirms the covenant - we have to bridge across the waters of the unknown because we have firm prophecies on both river banks so to speak.

That bridge is speculation (maybe that is poor choice of words on my part), not directly said in prophecy, but we have firm banks on both sides of the waters. We know he stands up. We know that he heads into the middle east toward Israel with a strong army from the location of one of the former breakup kingdoms. Daniel 8:9

What we also have is Ezekiel 39, following the Gog/Magog war the seven years - which are the same seven years in Daniel 9:27. I can show, but too much for this post.

So here is the bridge - the ten kings come to power, the little horn over them, leader of the EU. Gog/Magog appears on the horizon. As a deterrent his mobilizes his EU army in Greece. Gog/Magog invades anyway. God supernaturally destroys them. In the aftermath, the little horn moves his army into the middle east, securing all of the oil for the Europeans.

The Jews, following Gog/Magog, thinking they are on the doorstep of the messianic age - think that the little horn is their messiah, because he is a Jew and has acted to defend Israel by his intentions. Prophecy wise, he is the prince who shall come.

The person's ego is huge, and most likely will think that he is their messiah as well. Plays the part and confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years - a requirement that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel on a 7 year basis.

Back to the EU, in it's original form was founded by the treaties of Rome.
60 years of the Rome Treaties - European Union - European Commission

uh... I forgot your question

Like, you are I are almost exactly on the same page.

I believe that the Scriptural evidence FOR "a" "rapture" Are very convincing, if not overwhelming although I totally agree about the integity of the thread.

I Will not engage in any further discussions regarding that subject on this thread
.