Anti-universalism hostility

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is the spirit of obfuscation from God, Jeff?

I don't have any idea whether you were obfuscated, or tricked with butter-dripping persuasive words,
when you thought the anti-Gospel was okay to believe and to follow....
No, that was not from God.
He does hide the truth from scholars, (is that what you mean by obfuscation?) , is that why it has been hidden from you so far as you think (in your posts now) ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not much point having faith if you can't have faith in the restoration of a poor lost victim who died without knowing Jesus, now is there?

If your faith still depends on human feelings of loss or such, from the flesh, from the enemy of Christ,
from sinfulness, then
the faith won't be much help to anyone, will it ?
As it is, most people go along with your stated results - refusing to repent all their lives, dying forever, both those who never "know Jesus", and those who think they do, but are told "be gone from Me" because all they did was for show, and not obeying Him.

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Daniel: The angels who fell are in aidios chains of the Lord. I will leave them in their aidios/eternal chains of the One who does all things to His desired end.

A sheep is lost UNTIL the Chief Shepherd finds Him. He loses nothing, not sheep, not goats, not broken children of Adam one.

Nothing!

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

“Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit.” -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is the spirit of obfuscation from God, Jeff?

Funny you brought this up.
Here is what I think you mean by "obfuscation" , just now posted (and continuously for years) >>>
"I will leave them in their aidios/eternal chains of the One who does all things to His desired end. A sheep is lost UNTIL the Chief Shepherd finds Him"

 

[Shrewd Manager]

If your faith still depends on human feelings of loss or such, from the flesh, from the enemy of Christ,
from sinfulness, then
the faith won't be much help to anyone, will it ?

Are you suggesting that compassion for a rape victim suicide is 'from sinfulness and the flesh'?! Are you insane?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Don't assume things, that's already harmed you long time.
No, but it can be - if it lead you or anyone to lose their own soul, then it is sinful and from the flesh.
I think it is insane to lose a soul eternally, on the basis of fleshly, carnal sinful feelings apart from Christ.

Are you suggesting that compassion for a rape victim suicide is 'from sinfulness and the flesh'?! Are you insane?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Compassion , Yahweh's Compassion, Ekklesia's compassion, true compassion, is healing, not devisive , though as Jesus says also: you think I (Jesus) Came to Bring Peace - I tell you no, but a sword - a sharp two-edged sword that will separate a man from his wife, from his son, a mother from her daughter.... (when one believes, and the other remains in rebellion)

Seek and keep seeking Yahweh's True Compassion, to bring healing to the suffering, if you wish to help someone...

Are you suggesting that compassion for a rape victim suicide is 'from sinfulness and the flesh'?! Are you insane?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Compassion , Yahweh's Compassion, Ekklesia's compassion, true compassion, is healing, not devisive , though as Jesus says also: you think I (Jesus) Came to Bring Peace - I tell you no, but a sword - a sharp two-edged sword that will separate a man from his wife, from his son, a mother from her daughter.... (when one believes, and the other remains in rebellion)

Seek and keep seeking Yahweh's True Compassion, to bring healing to the suffering, if you wish to help someone...

But 'Yahweh's True Compassion', according to you, is to bbq the girl forever. So is that what I should be doing?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But 'Yahweh's True Compassion', according to you, is to bbq the girl forever. So is that what I should be doing?

ooops..... you just made a bad, a terrible, slip... (hopefully not a willful bearing false witness)....

I won't hold it against you in any case.... but try to not repeat it , okay ?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

ooops..... you just made a bad, a terrible, slip... (hopefully not a willful bearing false witness)....

I won't hold it against you in any case.... but try to not repeat it , okay ?

Jeff, forgive me, but you're talking nonsense. I'm going to bed. God bless.

 

[Der Alte]

...The universalist tradition begins in Genesis 18:18 with the promise that all nations of the earth will be blessed, and thenceforth saturates scripture from go to whoa. Looky here, just a selection of verses on point:

A good example of the UR ploy of quoting selective verses out-of-context to support their false doctrine. In the next chapter we read this.

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Genesis 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. ​

Why weren't the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah and all the cities of the plain blessed in Abraham, in this next chapter?

To complete the story, we only need to look to Rev 21:24-26, where the prophecy is fulfilled in the Eschaton, where God makes ALL things new - the kings of the earth and nations are purified and inherit the life of Christ.

We did NOT get the rest of the story. Let's read this passage in-context.

.Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Vs. 4 "no more death,""former things passed away"
Vs. 5 "I make all things new." according to UR-ites this means all mankind.
Vs. 6 "I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." According to UR-ites that should be all mankind.
Vs. 7 "He that overcomes shall inherit all things." According to UR-ites that should be all mankind.
But vs. 8 eight groups of unrighteous people are thrown into the lake of fire which [still] is the second death.

'And the leaves of the tree of life were for the healing of the nations' (Rev 22:2).

But after the healing of the nations, which according to the UR-ites this is the whole world, the angel said,

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:12
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.​

Although all the nations were healed in vs. 2 there are still unrighteous people outside the new Jerusalem

Revelation 22:15
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.​

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry you think your crude bbq comment was in any way okay with God ....

Neither He nor I agree with you.

Jeff, forgive me, but you're talking nonsense. I'm going to bed. God bless.

 

[Der Alte]

Not so, der Alter. The categories are merely descriptive:
Damnationism because they believe in damnation.
...
You'll get the hang of it.

Oh so the restriction of pejorative language only goes one way? Is that what they call themselves?
I believe in "eternal punishment" just as Jesus said and NO the word kolasis does NOT mean correction and "aionios" means eternal, everlasting, unending.
The only other occurrence of kolasis in the NT.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment [kolasis]. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. ​

He that fears is NOT made perfect, Ain't no correction here.

 

[Daniel9v9]

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

“Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit.” -Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.

Again, context is important, for Christ clearly says that whoever does not believe will be condemned. Christ's descent into hell does not give way to universalism, but it's about Christ's victory over sin, death and hell. This is easily demonstrated in that Peter in the same epistle very clearly distinguishes between those who are saved by the person and works of Jesus Christ, and those who reject God's grace. Peter even writes: "If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

 

[FineLinen]

Again, context is important, for Christ clearly says that whoever does not believe will be condemned. Christ's descent into hell does not give way to universalism, but it's about Christ's victory over sin, death and hell. This is easily demonstrated in that Peter in the same epistle very clearly distinguishes between those who are saved by the person and works of Jesus Christ, and those who reject God's grace. Peter even writes: "If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Dear Daniel: Condemnation/ktisis is not damnation. Our God will accomplish His desired end in the ta pante. As the Father of all fathers, our Abba must correct all of us to bring us to His viewpoint & change and transformation. His correction is for one purpose only!

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

[Daniel9v9]

Dear Daniel: Condemnation/ktisis is not damnation. Our God will accomplish His desired end in the ta pante. As the Father of all fathers, our Abba must correct all of us to bring us to His viewpoint & change and transformation. His correction is for one purpose only!

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Nope. When Christ says: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." - The word "condemned" here is κατακρίνω; to judge against, i.e. sentence:—condemn, damn.

G2632 - katakrinō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (ESV)

 

[FineLinen]

Nope. When Christ says: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." - The word "condemned" here is κατακρίνω; to judge against, i.e. sentence:—condemn, damn.

G2632 - katakrinō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (ESV)

Dear Daniel: You can "nope" till the Father's cows come home with the rest of His barnyard.

Do you know how many children under the age of 5 die every day worldwide? I do not know how many of them have been baptized, but I assure you our Father sees every sparrow fall.

15,000 (15k X 365 = 5,475,000)

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Daniel: You can "nope" till the Father's cows come home with the rest of His barnyard.

Do you know how many children under the age of 5 die every day worldwide? I do not know how many of them have been baptized, but I assure you our Father sees every sparrow fall.

15,000 (15k X 365 = 5,475,000)

Dear Daniel: Do not give me the "age of accountability" folly. These 5,475,000 children are sinners from birth. Yes Daniel, depraved sinners by birth. Perhaps you can express how the Father handles a situation of this magnitude?

 

[Jipsah]

Unfortunately, if that person believed in universalism when they died, that person is now in hell. Also, anyone who is swayed to believe in universalism based on that video or any post in this thread and dies in it will also go to hell.

Along with a vast majority of the people who ever breathed air. "O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever."

 

[martymonster]

Where did Christ state this?

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.