Another take on the Rapture

[jgr]

NOT impossible! This verse has a timeframe: when anyone is denying the Son, they are denying the FAther. But THEY DON"T KNOW THAT! They are not reading 1 John! The day is coming though, when they will SEE Jesus and see the nail holes in his hands. And at that time they will NO LONGER deny the son.

I am really glad for the Jew's sake, that You are not their Father God. I doubt of you would give them any mercy. However, God WILL.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

You would give judgment - but God will give GRACE! Blessed be His name forever!

Who are "they"?

Under His old covenant, God slew disobedient and disbelieving Israelites by the thousands, e.g. (Exodus 32:28, Numbers 16:49, 1 Samuel 4:10, 2 Chronicles 13:17).

Will they be among the "they" in Zechariah 12:10, ensuring that we'll see them in heaven?

 

[BABerean2]

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

You would give judgment - but God will give GRACE! Blessed be His name forever!

You are ignoring the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10, which is found at Calvary and on the Day of Pentecost.

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."



Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Act 2:16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAYS GOD, THAT I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH; YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS.


Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

.

 

[iamlamad]

Who are "they"?

Under His old covenant, God slew disobedient and disbelieving Israelites by the thousands, e.g. (Exodus 32:28, Numbers 16:49, 1 Samuel 4:10, 2 Chronicles 13:17).

Will they be among the "they" in Zechariah 12:10, ensuring that we'll see them in heaven?

No, we will see them during the Millennial Reign of Christ on earth.

 

[jgr]

No, we will see them during the Millennial Reign of Christ on earth.

What about in heaven?

 

[iamlamad]

What about in heaven?

I cannot find a rapture to heaven after the 70th week ends and Jesus comes: How then would they get to heaven?

 

[jgr]

I cannot find a rapture to heaven after the 70th week ends and Jesus comes: How then would they get to heaven?

So, after they all repent per Zechariah 12, they're still all going to hell?

 

[iamlamad]

So, after they all repent per Zechariah 12, they're still all going to hell?

Hell is for sinners! They will remain alive and enter the Millennial kingdom in natural bodies - as people who can rebuild the human race again. The church will be there too, but with resurrection bodies - and as judges.

 

[jgr]

Hell is for sinners! They will remain alive and enter the Millennial kingdom in natural bodies - as people who can rebuild the human race again. The church will be there too, but with resurrection bodies - and as judges.

Why are you avoiding the question?

Will we see them in heaven?

 

[iamlamad]

Why are you avoiding the question?

Will we see them in heaven?

I guess you just don't understand: the church will be in heaven for the 70th week, while they are still on earth. We come back with Jesus to earth and it will not be until we come back with Him that they SEE HIM. We may well see them on earth, but we will not see them in heaven.

 

[jgr]

I guess you just don't understand: the church will be in heaven for the 70th week, while they are still on earth. We come back with Jesus to earth and it will not be until we come back with Him that they SEE HIM. We may well see them on earth, but we will not see them in heaven.

If we don't see them in Heaven when we ourselves are in Heaven, then where are they? Where will they be spending eternity?

 

[iamlamad]

If we don't see them in Heaven when we ourselves are in Heaven, then where are they? Where will they be spending eternity?

They will be on earth, still not believing Jesus is their Messiah. They will spend eternity on the new heaven and earth just where WE will be spending eternity - WITH GOD.

 

[FredVB]

1Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

If we don't see them in Heaven when we ourselves are in Heaven, then where are they? Where will they be spending eternity?

They will be on earth, still not believing Jesus is their Messiah. They will spend eternity on the new heaven and earth just where WE will be spending eternity - WITH GOD.

In general among those of us of Christian churches there is way too much trust in the institutions and what is learned through them. There could be many of us we expect to see in Heaven, and won't. There would be some that are not expected to be in Heaven who will be. Yahweh knows who they are. But we don't see the heart of others, nor what the future is in their lives. We should really make sure of our faithfulness to what Yahweh wants with us, with having this loving faithfulness, we have promises for our assurance, and we should speak of this with others. But we never know for most others, and time may show others are not as what we thought.

There is the certainty of prophecy that in a future time all those of the people of Israel will be saved. But who will those be? It will be a remnant that is remaining, we don't know now who will be among those. That remnant that will be all of Israel then will be testimony witnessing to all others in this world, that more will trust in Christ, the King.

 

[BABerean2]

There is the certainty of prophecy that in a future time all those of the people of Israel will be saved.

You are changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The manner of their salvation is found in verse 24, by being grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.
The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelite branches and Gentile branches grafted together into the same tree.

There is no separate tree.
Therefore, there is no Plan B of salvation outside of the Church.

.

 

[jgr]

They will be on earth, still not believing Jesus is their Messiah. They will spend eternity on the new heaven and earth just where WE will be spending eternity - WITH GOD.

They will spend eternity with God while not believing Jesus is their Messiah?

The Holy Spirit through John disagrees.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[iamlamad]

They will spend eternity with God while not believing Jesus is their Messiah?

The Holy Spirit through John disagrees.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

You jumped into the middle of a conversation.
They WILL believe, but only when they SEE Him and see the nail holes in his hands.

 

[jgr]

You jumped into the middle of a conversation.
They WILL believe, but only when they SEE Him and see the nail holes in his hands.

You jumped first. I responded to your response.


After they have believed, where will they spend eternity?

 

[iamlamad]

You jumped first. I responded to your response.


After they have believed, where will they spend eternity?

We have been over this! On the New Earth. That is where we all will spend eternity. Do you have a better idea?

 

[jgr]

We have been over this! On the New Earth. That is where we all will spend eternity. Do you have a better idea?

Will we get to meet and greet Judas there?

 

[iamlamad]

Will we get to meet and greet Judas there?

There may be someone named Judas there. Don't expect to see the Judas that gave up Jesus there! His eternal destination will be away from God, not with God.

 

[jgr]

There may be someone named Judas there. Don't expect to see the Judas that gave up Jesus there! His eternal destination will be away from God, not with God.

Won't every Jew see Jesus and believe on Him? Judas Iscariot was a Jew.