Another take on the Rapture

[iamlamad]

Won't every Jew see Jesus and believe on Him? Judas Iscariot was a Jew.

Are you for real...you don't know and are asking questions to learn - or are you here just to write silly questions?

Judas Iscariot is in hell today and will remain there until he is called up with the rest of hell for the white throne judgment.

And not even every Jew alive today will see Jesus and believe on Him. I believe the correct number will be 1/3.

 

[jgr]

Are you for real...you don't know and are asking questions to learn - or are you here just to write silly questions?

Judas Iscariot is in hell today and will remain there until he is called up with the rest of hell for the white throne judgment.

And not even every Jew alive today will see Jesus and believe on Him. I believe the correct number will be 1/3.

Dispensationally speaking:

Where do you see only "every Jew alive today"? Zechariah 12:10-14 includes every Jew who has ever lived.

And if God is fair and just, (and He is), He will appear to all of them, and all of them will believe on Him, before He slaughters 2/3 of them.

And all who believe on Him will include Judas Iscariot, the Pharisees responsible for Jesus' death, the tens of thousands that God slew when they rebelled against Him in the Old Testament, ad nauseam.

That is, every unregenerate wicked Jew who has ever lived will be offered a second chance and will accept it.

And we'll meet and greet Judas et al in heaven, wherever you believe heaven will ultimately exist.

I can hardly wait.

 

[iamlamad]

Dispensationally speaking:

Where do you see only "every Jew alive today"? Zechariah 12:10-14 includes every Jew who has ever lived.

And if God is fair and just, (and He is), He will appear to all of them, and all of them will believe on Him, before He slaughters 2/3 of them.

And all who believe on Him will include Judas Iscariot, the Pharisees responsible for Jesus' death, the tens of thousands that God slew when they rebelled against Him in the Old Testament, ad nauseam.

That is, every unregenerate wicked Jew who has ever lived will be offered a second chance and will accept it.

And we'll meet and greet Judas et al in heaven, wherever you believe heaven will ultimately exist.

I can hardly wait.

More human reasoning and guess work - or imagination. Did you not read?

"they shall look upon me whom they have pierced" WHERE is this going to happen? Where will Jesus touch down? JERUSALEM.

Please tell us all: how in the world are those in hell going to see Jesus in Jerusalem? NO ONE - EVER - has escaped from hell, except Jesus Christ. Hell could not hold Him. Neither is any human being going to escape hell to see Jesus.

It is only your wild imagination that these verses are talking about "every Jew that ever lived." You live in a dreamland of fantasy.

 

[jgr]

Please tell us all: how in the world are those in hell going to see Jesus in Jerusalem? NO ONE - EVER - has escaped from hell, except Jesus Christ. Hell could not hold Him. Neither is any human being going to escape hell to see Jesus.

So every unregenerate Jew in the past who has died without Christ is eternally lost, and only those who happen to be alive when Christ descends will be saved?

Is that before or after the slaughter of 2/3?

Think of all the poor souls who didn't get the timing right.

It is only your wild imagination that these verses are talking about "every Jew that ever lived." You live in a dreamland of fantasy.

Zechariah 12
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

If that isn't every Jew that ever lived, who's missing?

That's no dreamland of fantasy. That's the pure, unadulterated, literal, dispensational Word of God.

 

[iamlamad]

So every unregenerate Jew in the past who has died without Christ is eternally lost, and only those who happen to be alive when Christ descends will be saved?

Is that before or after the slaughter of 2/3?

Think of all the poor souls who didn't get the timing right.



Zechariah 12
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

If that isn't every Jew that ever lived, who's missing?

That's no dreamland of fantasy. That's the pure, unadulterated, literal, dispensational Word of God.

You are using human reasoning. You will have to ask God when and If you see Him of He is being fair.

Who is missing? All those in hell who have died.

 

[jgr]

Who is missing? All those in hell who have died.

Not according to Scripture, dispensationally speaking.

All Jews who died in Christ will be raptured.

Only unregenerate Jews will be left.

All of those who have died (the house of David, the house of Nathan, the house of Levi, the family of Shimei, every family, all the families that remain, according to Zechariah 12:12-14) will then be resurrected to be present when Christ descends, and to get their second chance.

What a great deal, especially for Judas and his kind.

They'll be a lucky bunch.

 

[FredVB]

You are changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

So? What difference does it make?

The manner of their salvation is found in verse 24, by being grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.
The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelite branches and Gentile branches grafted together into the same tree.

There is no separate tree.
Therefore, there is no Plan B of salvation outside of the Church.

Indeed, there is no salvation apart from coming to Christ with what he accomplished. In the sense that all believers are collectively the church there is no salvation outside of that, it is not the same as having salvation with coming to church.

It does not mean that promises to Israel won't actually go to the people of Israel. And so there will be a time, when believers are moved from this world, that all of the remnant of the people of Israel will see in time of their crisis, according to prophecy they know, their need of Christ, and will call on him, and they will all be saved. They will have what was promised for them, they will be a testimony to the world, with testimony of Christ, who returns, and will reign in this world from among them.

 

[jgr]

So? What difference does it make?



Indeed, there is no salvation apart from coming to Christ with what he accomplished. In the sense that all believers are collectively the church there is no salvation outside of that, it is not the same as having salvation with coming to church.

It does not mean that promises to Israel won't actually go to the people of Israel. And so there will be a time, when believers are moved from this world, that all of the remnant of the people of Israel will see in time of their crisis, according to prophecy they know, their need of Christ, and will call on him, and they will all be saved. They will have what was promised for them, they will be a testimony to the world, with testimony of Christ, who returns, and will reign in this world from among them.

So we'll see Judas in heaven?

 

[iamlamad]

Not according to Scripture, dispensationally speaking.

All Jews who died in Christ will be raptured.

Only unregenerate Jews will be left.

All of those who have died (the house of David, the house of Nathan, the house of Levi, the family of Shimei, every family, all the families that remain, according to Zechariah 12:12-14) will then be resurrected to be present when Christ descends, and to get their second chance.

What a great deal, especially for Judas and his kind.

They'll be a lucky bunch.

All Jews who died in Christ will be raptured. Agreed. And all who died without Christ are in hell awaiting judgment.

Only unregenerate Jews will be left. of this group 1/3 will be saved. This unregenerate group can still be divided: those that spend time praying to Father God, and those that are worldly and never think of God. I have seen on video those praying at the wall.

All of those who have died (the house of David, the house of Nathan, the house of Levi, the family of Shimei, every family, all the families that remain, according to Zechariah 12:12-14) will then be resurrected to be present when Christ descends, and to get their second chance. Where on earth do you read this? I have grave doubts any of this is truth. These are people who will have survived the 70th week and SAW JESUS - saw the nail holes in His hands and feet, and spent time mourning because they realized their own ancestors put Him on the cross. In other words, ALIVE people, not resurrected people.

 

[jgr]

This unregenerate group can still be divided: those that spend time praying to Father God, and those that are worldly and never think of God. I have seen on video those praying at the wall.

Scripture?

These are people who will have survived the 70th week and SAW JESUS - saw the nail holes in His hands and feet, and spent time mourning because they realized their own ancestors put Him on the cross. In other words, ALIVE people, not resurrected people.

Scripture?

 

[jgr]

And all who died without Christ are in hell awaiting judgment.

Then "all Israel shall be saved" doesn't really mean "all Israel".

 

[iamlamad]

Scripture?



Scripture?

Common sense. We all know some people live with faith in God, others live as if God did not exist. In the case of Jews: some have enough faith in God to pray to Him; while others do not. Those that have faith STILL have faith their Messiah will show up some day - and He will. But when He does, they will think: HOW in the world can HE be our Messiah? But the nail holes will be proof.

 

[jgr]

Common sense. We all know some people live with faith in God, others live as if God did not exist. In the case of Jews: some have enough faith in God to pray to Him; while others do not. Those that have faith STILL have faith their Messiah will show up some day - and He will. But when He does, they will think: HOW in the world can HE be our Messiah? But the nail holes will be proof.

"Common sense" does not save anyone.

Only Scriptural truth does.

Awaiting.

 

[iamlamad]

"Common sense" does not save anyone.

Only Scriptural truth does.

Awaiting.

Who was talking about saving anyone? You know the scriptures: like the one where 1/3 comes through the fire? Like the one where they see who was pierced and they mourn?

 

[iamlamad]

Then "all Israel shall be saved" doesn't really mean "all Israel".

How can "all Israel" mean all when another scirpture tells us only 1/3 will make it through the fire?

 

[iamlamad]

Scripture?



Scripture?

Try reading Zec. 12

 

[iamlamad]

So we'll see Judas in heaven?

I hope you know the answer to this question!

 

[jgr]

How can "all Israel" mean all when another scirpture tells us only 1/3 will make it through the fire?

Both Scriptures cannot then be correct. Which one is in error?

 

[jgr]

Who was talking about saving anyone? You know the scriptures: like the one where 1/3 comes through the fire? Like the one where they see who was pierced and they mourn?

"Who was talking about saving anyone?"

So this has nothing to do with salvation?

 

[jgr]

Try reading Zec. 12

I've read it.

Now you quote it.